The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Do you really want to go down THIS path with THIS team?

And how long have you felt this way exactly?

[LadySkinsFan]

I don't want the name change.

 

If it happens, how about the Washington Dragons?  Can still keep burgundy and gold (flames). 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

And how long have you felt this way exactly?

 

Felt what way? That the Redskins need to be particularly sensitive to any kind of racial issues? I dunnon. College maybe?

[Bonez3]

He He. Good one.

Here's our case. NFL logos are not insults. The Viking, Celtic, Braves, and Chiefs names and logos are "tributes meant to inspire" the Fans and Team.

The players enter the stadium or later begin to rally....the Band cranks up HTTR (We're) "braves on the warpath" ... Those words are inspirational - and a tribute to the bravery and fighting skills of the NA.

P.S. The owners of the Chiefs, Braves, Seahawks, and others now have a vested interest in getting this resolved ASAP. These guys are NOT wallflowers; they're on the phone with each other,the Commish,and Snyder.

Save logo and fightsong by finding more respectful name. Don't let Synder botch it.

Speak for yourself, if you change the name than you can trash everything else.

The name is the flag, you lose that, there are no consolations

[Bang]

"Fight for Ole Dixie" only appeared for a few years in the late 50s and early 60s. I can't imagine why those words were added at that time.

i believe we were the southern-most team, geographically speaking,,  until the Cowboys entered the league in 1960.

We were sort of the default team of the southern states.

 

~Bang

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Felt what way? That the Redskins need to be particularly sensitive to any kind of racial issues? I dunnon. College maybe?

Do you feel like they need to be especially sensitive to racial issues or that it's a racist organization? My impression from your earlier post was the latter.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

i believe we were the southern-most team, geographically speaking,,  until the Cowboys entered the league in 1960.

We were sort of the default team of the southern states.

 

~Bang

 

Yes, I get that.

 

But what was happening at the time that really made the Skins want to emphasize their team of the south status?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Do you feel like they need to be especially sensitive to racial issues or that it's a racist organization? My impression from your earlier post was the latter.

 

They need to be sensitive.

 

They certainly are not a racist organization currently. Nor have they been for years. I've never argued that.

 

The team certainly was as openly racist as any sports team has ever been for a long period of its history though. And, frankly, that history does not help the Redskins in this debate. If the team had Marion Motley and Jim Brown in its history, the arguments of "respect" and "heritage" would mean more to me. But our heritage is George Preston Marshall who literally had the KKK marching in support of him during the Kennedy years.

 

That "heritage" should not impact Snyder today.....except when he decides to wheel out the ghost of Lone Star Dietz and tries to get people to look at what the intent was of decisions made in the freaking 30s.

[grego]

I agree completely.

 

I also think that traditionalists have a tendency to automatically defend everything they like or grew up with, even things that really maybe should no longer be defended.    

 

 

personally, i dont subscribe to the 'i grew up with it, so i dont want it taken from me' argument. i dont think its a good one. 

[Spearfeather]

Interesting. I didn't know that the woman with the gray hair, was DeAngelo Hall's aunt.

 

[pjfootballer]

"Fight for Ole Dixie" only appeared for a few years in the late 50s and early 60s. I can't imagine why those words were added at that time.

Yes, I was corrected above. I wasn't sure when those words were in there. My mistake.

[Larry]

You may think the name doesn't need to change, that's fine, but stop screaming that this is some liberal-commie plot to sissify our society blah blah blah.

They're coming to take our guns.

(Sorry. Had to.)

i believe we were the southern-most team, geographically speaking,,  until the Cowboys entered the league in 1960.

We were sort of the default team of the southern states.

 

~Bang

We were the only team south of the Mason-Dixon line.

[Larry]

I agree completely.

 

I also think that traditionalists have a tendency to automatically defend everything they like or grew up with, even things that really maybe should no longer be defended.

 

 

personally, i dont subscribe to the 'i grew up with it, so i dont want it taken from me' argument. i dont think its a good one.

Actually, I had a bit of a revelation into psychology, in general, and me, in particular, recently, when taking Psychology and Ethics classes (online) at the local community college.

Needless to say, I was the old fart in a class full of 20-somethings.

And one of the discussion topics was disciplining children.

And there were a whole lot of people proclaiming that anybody who physically disciplines a child is a child abuser.

And I found myself becoming very angry, at this discussion.

And I tried to analyze myself. And I came to the conclusion that I was reacting in a manner as though I was in a room full of people, who were all trying to tell me that my mother and father were child abusers.

Yeah, if it ever looks like this name is going to change, there's going to be some really angry pushback.

From people who are saying "How dare you call me a racist!"

I would not be at all shocked if there aren't at least one or two cases of violence.

[War Paint]

i believe we were the southern-most team, geographically speaking,,  until the Cowboys entered the league in 1960.

We were sort of the default team of the southern states.

 

~Bang

Exactly right.  It amazes me how many Redskin fans from the DC area don't know this.  The reason why I'm a Redskin fan from NC is because my grandfather, who is from NC was a Redskin fan, who raised his kids (my dad) to be Redskin fans, which resulted in me being a Redskin fan.  We're talking about decades of Redskin family ties and memories here.  My poor granddad passed away in 1980, right before the Gibbs era started.  Such a shame.  NC and other southern states were considered the Redskins market.  That's why there's still so many Redskin fans in the south.  When I was growing up, NC showed the Redskins every week on TV.  Redskins merchandise was always on the shelves at stores in NC. 

[grhqofb5]

lol..   wiccans.

 

Can we at least stick to things that are real?

 

before long we'll be wondering if the name "Knights" offends Jedis.

 

~Bang

 

Knights could be offensive Muslims, due to the crusades and brutality they were subjected to. Or the Scottish, due to the abuse incurred at the hands of the English cavalry.  It could also be offensive to Knights (or descendants of knights), because its a caricature of what was strongly held cultural belief.  Best to leave that out as well, just to be safe.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Knights could be offensive Muslims, due to the crusades and brutality they were subjected to. Or the Scottish, due to the abuse incurred at the hands of the English cavalry.  It could also be offensive to Knights (or descendants of knights), because its a caricature of what was strongly held cultural belief.  Best to leave that out as well, just to be safe.

 

This joke is going to appear on every page of this thread.

[MattFancy]

i believe we were the southern-most team, geographically speaking,,  until the Cowboys entered the league in 1960.

We were sort of the default team of the southern states.

 

~Bang

 

Yup and then the owner of the Cowboys back then (can't remember the name off-hand), bought the rights to "Hail to the Redskins" to get GPM to vote for Dallas to be allowed an NFL team. And that's how the rivalary started.

[Boss_Hogg]

Yes, I get that.

 

But what was happening at the time that really made the Skins want to emphasize their team of the south status?

 

$$$

Likely for the same reason the band quietly retired their feather headdresses.

 

IMO, all fans or band members wearing headdresses should be retired.

[Bang]

Yes, I get that.

 

But what was happening at the time that really made the Skins want to emphasize their team of the south status?

I think that it would be purely conjecture to expect that GPM tried to cozy up to the south to show solidarity with racists.. IF that is what you're hinting at.

I don't doubt the depth of the man's character. but there isn't really any proof of that, is there?

There's plenty of racists everywhere else during those times he could have pal'd around with.

I think fans - money and a geographical claim to that much 'fan territory' was what drove it.

 

I don't think Marshall would have shied away from those types of people, but I think our locale and lack of any other pro team down there meant more radio audience, which i would believe to be a large factor in playing up to the South. Especially given the fact that regardless of professional football penetration, college football in the south has always been hugely popular. To tap that audience is an opportunity that was there for him. As a businessman he'd have been dumb to ignore it.

 

~Bang

[skins island connection]

It that what is happening?  No.  

 

The word "redskin" fell out of vogue as a good descriptor for Native Americans decades long time ago.  Just like "colored people" fell out of vogue as a descriptor for African Americans.  The use of the word "redskin" is only being kept alive by this football team.  

 

You may think the name doesn't need to change, that's fine, but stop screaming that this is some liberal-commie plot to sissify our society blah blah blah.    

 

 Screaming ?  Not my style, sorry you get that impression. Now i'm offended by your comments. lol. JK.

 C'mon now, you cannot sit there with a straight face and tell me that society is not being over-sensitive and some people/groups are over-acting just a wee bit.

And if 50 democrats can jump on board and sign a petition demanding a name change, then yes, liberal commie plots really do exist.

 

 What i'm saying is today its the Redskins; tomorrow the Chiefs; then the Indians; then business owners with store names which some will begin pointing out as being offensive; then cities will start feeling the heat.

This country may as well change the name of every single thing in it, because as long as there are human beings living here, and lawyers, this will be a growing problem.

 

I'm still waiting to see someone post a pic of a teepee with a DirecTv satellite dish sticking out the top.

[Larry]

C'mon now, you cannot sit there with a straight face and tell me that society is not being over-sensitive and some people/groups are over-acting just a wee bit.

Uh, if I'm not mistaken, I think he specifically stated that some people are being over-sensitive and over-acting just a wee bit.

And if 50 democrats can jump on board and sign a petition demanding a name change, then yes, liberal commie plots really do exist.

Only if you live in a world where people think that the terms "democrats" and "liberal commie plot" are interchangeable.

[Destino]

I'm at the point where I think it's best for ESPN,Wise,and all the others,politicians,and lastly fans from both sides to butt the hell out,(for some stop talking around them),and let the Native Americans decide amongst themselves about the names and images and then let us know what's cool and what's not and we go from there.

This really could easily be put to bed if the tribes all individually came to a decision communicated the results of where they all stand. I think the reason you'll never see this is because like many have said, this issue isn't important enough for them to take that sort of action over it.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think that it would be purely conjecture to expect that GPM tried to cozy up to the south to show solidarity with racists.. IF that is what you're hinting at.

I don't doubt the depth of the man's character. but there isn't really any proof of that, is there?

There's plenty of racists everywhere else during those times he could have pal'd around with.

I think fans - money and a geographical claim to that much 'fan territory' was what drove it.

 

I don't think it's conjecture. At a time when Southern states were suddenly adding the stars and bars to their state flags, Marshall added "Fight for Ole Dixie" to his team's fight song. At a time when the league was integrated and his team was winning one or two games a year, he was looking to build a new stadium and saying that he would integrate the Redskins when the Globetrotters integrated.

 

This was a man who had a provision in his will that the money set aside for child welfare programs not go to integrationists.

 

GPM was deeply (and, at times, weirldly) racist. And his business was tied to the South. I think his racial and business instincts were perfectly aligned. He was not faking racism to appeal to Southern whites.

[Destino]

What i'm saying is today its the Redskins; tomorrow the Chiefs; then the Indians; then business owners with store names which some will begin pointing out as being offensive; then cities will start feeling the heat.

This country may as well change the name of every single thing in it, because as long as there are human beings living here, and lawyers, this will be a growing problem.

You included the Indians in this so I have to ask, is this cool with you?

Please stop putting the friggin Cleveland Indians in our corner. It doesn't help.

[Diesel Hog]

i believe we were the southern-most team, geographically speaking,,  until the Cowboys entered the league in 1960.

We were sort of the default team of the southern states.

 

~Bang

 

Yep.  I was born in NC and saw lots of Redskins fans / gear, pre-1994 (The Panthers).  Both NC and SC were Redskins country, and to this day, there are lots of fans down there.