Brian Orakpo: Current most over hyped Redskin? Or as good as advertised?

[Taylor703]

So you're telling me that signing Hall, Baker and Jackson for around $10m and drafting OLB is not better than giving Orakpo $11m per year?. I have just filled 4 holes for the same price as Orakpo would cost, which to me is better for the Skins.

You haven't filled holes, you're hoping you filled holes. Jackson hasn't proven he can rush the passer, Baker at this point is being hyped by this fanbase ala Anthony Montgomery and Hall is 30-years old and has been quite inconsistent throughout his career.

[Skinsfan4life83]

So you're telling me that signing Hall, Baker and Jackson for around $10m and drafting OLB is not better than giving Orakpo $11m per year?. I have just filled 4 holes for the same price as Orakpo would cost, which to me is better for the Skins.

Like Taylor said you haven't filled anything. RJax hasn't proven anything other than he's a solid backup. Baker isn't exactly a hot commodity. Honestly he's average at best. Rak is a top 10 lb in the league. I'll say it again resign him or regret it later.

[War Paint]

I really don't want us to dedicate a large part of our salary cap to a good player, but not an elite player.   So many here think he's elite, but I don't think he's shown us that.  He has never been what Demarcus Ware was and it's not just because Orakpo plays coverage more.

 

I'm glad that our new coaching staff and front office are being cautious about this, because Cerrato would've already made Orakpo the highest paid OLB in the game.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Like Taylor said you haven't filled anything. RJax hasn't proven anything other than he's a solid backup. Baker isn't exactly a hot commodity. Honestly he's average at best. Rak is a top 10 lb in the league. I'll say it again resign him or regret it later.

 

Regret it how? We've spent 15 years signing a handful of names and filling the rest of our roster out with league-average players. We had bookend, Pro-Bowl OTs for a long time in Samuels and Jansen and that resulted in very little success. We had an All-World group of CBs in Bailey and Green/Sanders and that resulted in very little success. We've had Kerrigan and Orakpo for a few years now with not much in the way of a great defense to show for it.

 

The fact is, no matter what decision the front office makes, no one will really be able to determine how much we miss Orakpo or how much weaker we are elsewhere because we spent money on him. But to assume that this one decision will cause us to rue the day we didn't drop $12M per season on a pass-rushing OLB is a little short-sighted and ridiculous.

[Taylor703]

Regret it how? We've spent 15 years signing a handful of names and filling the rest of our roster out with league-average players. We had bookend, Pro-Bowl OTs for a long time in Samuels and Jansen and that resulted in very little success. We had an All-World group of CBs in Bailey and Green/Sanders and that resulted in very little success. We've had Kerrigan and Orakpo for a few years now with not much in the way of a great defense to show for it.

 

The fact is, no matter what decision the front office makes, no one will really be able to determine how much we miss Orakpo or how much weaker we are elsewhere because we spent money on him. But to assume that this one decision will cause us to rue the day we didn't drop $12M per season on a pass-rushing OLB is a little short-sighted and ridiculous.

While I agree, throwing money at other teams players while allowing ours to walk hasn't exactly had sparkling results either.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

While I agree, throwing money at other teams players while allowing ours to walk hasn't exactly had sparkling results either.

 

I agree with that. I don't want to let Orakpo walk in order to sign someone else's OLB for $1M less. I would re-sign Jackson and give him a shot. That's what good teams do...draft and promote from within when they decide they can't retain their stars.

[TheLongshot]

I'm surprised people are still beating the Rob Jackson drum.  While he's a fine player, he isn't remotely the player that Orakpo is.  That was obvious when Kerrigan struggled in the year Jackson had to start.  You need two good OLBs to make the 3-4 go, and Jackson just isn't good enough to be that guy.

 

I also think Orakpo's all-around game has gotten pretty good.  Unlike many pass rushers, he's not a liability against the run most of the time.

 

Personally, I want him back.  In general, when you have good players, you want to retain as many of them as possible, because finding replacements isn't easy.  If Orakpo goes (and if the money doesn't make sense for the team, then they should), fact is we are unlikely to find a guy who will replace his production and it will hurt Kerrigan's production.  It isn't a game-ender, but considering how many holes we have on this defense, creating more by getting rid of one of its best players won't work towards improving it.

[Lavarleap56]

 These are the top OLB salaries in the game... Stats below their names

 

 Player                 Avg Per Yr/ guaranteed

 

Clay Mathews          13.2 Mil / 20 mil

5yrs = 245 tackles 50 sacks

 

Demarcus Ware          13 mil / 20.2 mil          (Anthony Spencer 10.6 mil /10.6mil guaranteed)

9yrs = 574 tackles  117 sacks

 

Tamba Hali                  11.5Mil/ 16mil

8yrs = 446tackles  73.5 sacks

 

Lamar Woodly             10.25mil/ 17mil  

7yrs = 299 tckles  57 sacks

 

Robert Mathis             9mil/ 17mil

11yrs = 487 tackles  111 sacks

 

Paul Kruger                 8mil/  20mil

5 yrs = 116 tackles   20 sacks

 

 

Ahmad Brooks             6.7mil/ 8.5mil

8yrs = 245 tackles   30 sacks

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Orakpo in 4yrs (minus injured yr)  = 225 tackles  38.5 sacks

 

He is on pace to equal Tamba Hali numbers and has better numbers than Kruger or Brooks.

Robert Mathis first four years looks almost identical to Orakpo (35 sacks)

 

Rak avg more tackles and is on pace with sacks per yr with Clay Matthews.

 

If I were the Redskins I would franchise him in a heartbeat. I'd base it off the fact that he was injured one year and all the rest of the top pass rushers never missed a season. I'd convey to him that he is clearly our franchise player right now and if he has another productive year we'll offer him a long term deal. He is worth the franchise tag easily! And I would pay him more than Woodley! My offer is 10.5.mil yr/ 18 guaranteed.

 

To those who are worried about cap space you forget that we dont have any money tied up into anyone on our roster really. We have the money to spend! Think about it.. How can the Chiefs have Jamaal Charles, Derrick Johnson, Eric Berry and Tamba Hali?? How did the Packers have Aaron Rogers, Jordi Nelson, Charles Woodson, Greg Jennings and Clay Matthews??  They all had big contracts! Its Easy... you pay your stars when their time comes up. Draft replacements for them and in time you restructure their contracts, release them or trade them! But you absolutely dont let them sign somewhere else without a replacement on deck or a team in place.

 

So say what you will but Orakpo has earned to be at least the 4th highest paid OLB in the game. The numbers dont lie This is what happens when you actually develop your own stars Washington.. you pay them!

 

 

Let's not leave out some of the important stats for this argument.... 

 

Green Bay’s Clay Matthews 

Age: 27 

Contract: 5 years, $66 million (2013) 

Signing bonus: $20.5 million 

Guaranteed money: $20.5 million 

Average per year: $13.2 million 

Analysis: Matthews earned NFC Defensive Player of the Year honors in 2010 with 13.5 sacks, two forced fumbles and an interception. He’s made four Pro Bowls and was twice named All-Pro. Matthews had recorded double-digit sack totals in three of the previous four seasons before his new contract. Matthews has missed a combined nine games the past two seasons. He was considered very good against the run this past season. 

Game-changing plays: He has 50 career sacks to go with 10 forced fumbles and four interceptions in five seasons. 

Worth it: Yes. There’s only one year to go on in the new deal, so it’s tough to say he isn’t. But injuries the past two years make this a shakier yes than anticipated. 

Orakpo comparison: Matthews clearly is the better player, a more dynamic force who causes more worries for an offense. 

 

Dallas’ DeMarcus Ware 

Age: 31 

Contract: 7 years, $78 million (2009) 

Signing bonus: $20 million 

Average per year: $13 million 

Guaranteed money: $25,591,176 

Analysis: He earned this deal in a big way with 53.5 sacks in his first four years, including 20 in 2008. He’s made seven Pro Bowls and was named first-team All-Pro four times and was the 2008 NFL Defensive Player of the Year. He never missed a game until this past season, his first as a 4-3 defensive end. 

Game-changing plays: He’s intercepted only two passes in his career (one this past season), but has forced 32 fumbles. He’s recorded 117 career sacks he had a combined 35 sacks in 2009-10. 

Worth it: Yes, though the Cowboys might now have to cut him to clear salary-cap space. 

Orakpo comparison: There’s no comparison. Ware was a more dynamic player during his prime. If healthy, he can still play. 

 

Kansas City’s Tamba Hali 

Age: 30 

Contract: 5 years, $57.5 million (2011) 

Signing bonus: $15 million 

Guaranteed money: $35 million 

Average per year: $11.5 million 

Analysis: Hali earned his deal with a big 2010 season with an AFC-best 14.5 sacks – his first year with double-digit sacks. He’s a four-time Pro Bowler and has made All-Pro twice, including this past season. He’s played in at least 15 games every season since entering the NFL in 2006. 

Game-changing plays: Hali has forced 27 fumbles in eight seasons, but intercepted only two passes. He has 46.5 sacks since signing his new deal and 73.5 for his career. 

Worth it: Yes. His production has improved and, with two more years left on his contract, he shows no signs of decline. 

Orakpo comparison: Hali makes more game-changing plays, though his contract is a direct result of 2010 (he was a 4-3 end until 2009). He also has more talent around him. Orakpo has not had a breakout year, rather he’s consistently been between 8.5-11 sacks in his four full seasons. 

 

 

More at the link :http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/5697/how-brian-orakpo-compares-at-olb

[KingGibbs]

They are saying on 980 that 'Rak is seeking 12-13 million per. Yeah right. Bye bye.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

So I don't really like PFF, but others here do.  Their projection model puts Orakpo's level of play in 2013 at $10 million.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/24/jvm-washington-redskins/

 

 

They are saying that 'Rak is seeking 12-13 million per. Yeah right. Bye bye.

 

Where are you seeing this?

[KingGibbs]

So I don't really like PFF, but others here do.  Their projection model puts Orakpo's level of play in 2013 at $10 million.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/24/jvm-washington-redskins/

 

 

 

Where are you seeing this?

Sorry. They just said it on 980.

[redskins55]

Let's not leave out some of the important stats for this argument.... 

 

Green Bay’s Clay Matthews 

Age: 27 

Contract: 5 years, $66 million (2013) 

Signing bonus: $20.5 million 

Guaranteed money: $20.5 million 

Average per year: $13.2 million 

Analysis: Matthews earned NFC Defensive Player of the Year honors in 2010 with 13.5 sacks, two forced fumbles and an interception. He’s made four Pro Bowls and was twice named All-Pro. Matthews had recorded double-digit sack totals in three of the previous four seasons before his new contract. Matthews has missed a combined nine games the past two seasons. He was considered very good against the run this past season. 

Game-changing plays: He has 50 career sacks to go with 10 forced fumbles and four interceptions in five seasons. 

Worth it: Yes. There’s only one year to go on in the new deal, so it’s tough to say he isn’t. But injuries the past two years make this a shakier yes than anticipated. 

Orakpo comparison: Matthews clearly is the better player, a more dynamic force who causes more worries for an offense. 

 

Dallas’ DeMarcus Ware 

Age: 31 

Contract: 7 years, $78 million (2009) 

Signing bonus: $20 million 

Average per year: $13 million 

Guaranteed money: $25,591,176 

Analysis: He earned this deal in a big way with 53.5 sacks in his first four years, including 20 in 2008. He’s made seven Pro Bowls and was named first-team All-Pro four times and was the 2008 NFL Defensive Player of the Year. He never missed a game until this past season, his first as a 4-3 defensive end. 

Game-changing plays: He’s intercepted only two passes in his career (one this past season), but has forced 32 fumbles. He’s recorded 117 career sacks he had a combined 35 sacks in 2009-10. 

Worth it: Yes, though the Cowboys might now have to cut him to clear salary-cap space. 

Orakpo comparison: There’s no comparison. Ware was a more dynamic player during his prime. If healthy, he can still play. 

 

Kansas City’s Tamba Hali 

Age: 30 

Contract: 5 years, $57.5 million (2011) 

Signing bonus: $15 million 

Guaranteed money: $35 million 

Average per year: $11.5 million 

Analysis: Hali earned his deal with a big 2010 season with an AFC-best 14.5 sacks – his first year with double-digit sacks. He’s a four-time Pro Bowler and has made All-Pro twice, including this past season. He’s played in at least 15 games every season since entering the NFL in 2006. 

Game-changing plays: Hali has forced 27 fumbles in eight seasons, but intercepted only two passes. He has 46.5 sacks since signing his new deal and 73.5 for his career. 

Worth it: Yes. His production has improved and, with two more years left on his contract, he shows no signs of decline. 

Orakpo comparison: Hali makes more game-changing plays, though his contract is a direct result of 2010 (he was a 4-3 end until 2009). He also has more talent around him. Orakpo has not had a breakout year, rather he’s consistently been between 8.5-11 sacks in his four full seasons. 

 

 

More at the link :http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/5697/how-brian-orakpo-compares-at-olb

 

 

I like this article.. Its the same assessment I came up with. Not better than Matthews,Ware or Hali. The potential to be like Mathis due to very similar numbers their first four years. If he wants more than 10.5mil a year like the rumors suggest he can take a walk. I'll bring back Jackson, let Brandon Jenkins get some playing time and roll without him! We could revamp the entire offensive line in FA with 60-70million that Rak allegedly wants.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

They are saying on 980 that 'Rak is seeking 12-13 million per. Yeah right. Bye bye.

WAIT! Where are all those in this thread that said he wouldn't be asking for top dollar and we didn't know what we we're talking about?

Let him hit the market and see if he can get paid like someone he isn't.

Hail.

[DJD2]

WAIT! Where are all those in this thread that said he wouldn't be asking for top dollar and we didn't know what we we're talking about?

Let him hit the market and see if he can get paid like someone he isn't.

Hail.

 

I'll admit after 73 pgs it's kinda hard to remember but I don't recall this argument being put forth by many (any?) people.

 

I do recall reading alot of "I'll reserve judgment until we see what he is asking for", which we still don't know.

 

One poster has said 12-13 M, based upon something he heard on the radio. Could have been speculation for all we know.

[elkabong82]

yes let him hit the market if he's trying to get Mathews money. He's not worth that. He upped his play as the season wore down, so it's hard to say if he keeps that level of play going after the contract or if he reverts back to average play when he no longer has the big contract incentive.

 

DHall had top play this past season but worked out a good deal that helped him and helped the team. Orakpo doesn't want that, just wants a pay day if true he's not budging from 12-13 million a year. No way. Let him hit the market and have someone else overpay for non-elite production. 

 

I'd give him 9 mil per max.

[Est.1974]

13mil a year...seems like he wants to be a Raider.

[TheLongshot]

Until he actually signs somewhere, I'd take any numbers with a grain of salt.  This is the time agents talk all sorts of ****.

 

Orakpo is going to try maximize anything he can get on the open market, just like any FA.  Whether someone think's he's worth that much is another question, but no matter what he's going to get paid.  Seller's market.

[bedlamVR]

I am suspecting the 12-13 mil a year is the same speculation LL has been hearing, (speculating) and I don't actually imagine that is far off the mark (of what he is asking ...

 

But what he is asking and what he gets are two different things ...

 

If he does not budge from the 12-13 demands then tag him, 10.9 to 11 is livable with and no repercussions going forward ... for goodness sake this same FO saw no problem tagging a punter and dopehead waste of space TE in previous years ...

 

However the Redskins thing to do ... and the thing that is skirted near is to reach out to D Ware - who is done - and give him the contract we should be giving Orakpo

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I'll admit after 73 pgs it's kinda hard to remember but I don't recall this argument being put forth by many (any?) people.

I do recall reading alot of "I'll reserve judgment until we see what he is asking for", which we still don't know.

One poster has said 12-13 M, based upon something he heard on the radio. Could have been speculation for all we know.

There's been numerous posters that when it's been suggested he'll be asking for top flight money based on the fact he thinks he's both elite and a DPOTY candidate; shot it down with 'you don't know what he'll ask for' and 'Orakpo's a team first guy that just wants to be a Redskin, he won't be breaking the bank in his demands' and more cutting replies.

I'm not one to normally bring things up (what's posted is posted. This goes off and it's forgotten 9 times out of 10); but it's plentiful hence the little dig.

Hail.

[Thekyle1591]

Sorry. They just said it on 980.

Isn't that like the basic principle of bargaining? Of course he is gonna want 12-13 million a year and sell high. Do I think he will settle for less? Probably. 

[RWJ]

Sorry. They just said it on 980.

That's why he gets the transition tag.  IF he signs somewhere else we get decent draft picks for him.  That simple, IMO.

[KingGibbs]

That's why he gets the transition tag.  IF he signs somewhere else we get decent draft picks for him.  That simple, IMO.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you get any compensation with the transition tag.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

That's why he gets the transition tag.  IF he signs somewhere else we get decent draft picks for him.  That simple, IMO.

 

Wait, am I reading this wrong?  If we use the transition tag and he signs elsewhere, we get diddly.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/category/_/name/2014-nfl-franchisetransition-tag

[Taylor703]

If he's asking 12-13 per year than the fiscally responsible thing to do is walk away from the table. 9-10 is what I think he's worth and what I would be fine giving him but you can't pay him and risk the rest of the team. He's one of my favorite players but I understand it's a business and if he doesn't want to be a part of the team the way DHall is than pay Rob Jackson and rotate him with Jenkins. This deviates from most of my posts but even I have my limits lol.

[markmills67]

Like Taylor said you haven't filled anything. RJax hasn't proven anything other than he's a solid backup. Baker isn't exactly a hot commodity. Honestly he's average at best. Rak is a top 10 lb in the league. I'll say it again resign him or regret it later.

I meant D'Quell Jackson MLB not Rob OLB, then draft OLB at 34, Hall and Baker will both start. But lets all go with your idea and blow $12m a year on 1 player(Orakpo), what next give Kerrigan $12m as well, then Williams $15m and then RG3 $20m which is $70m a year for 4 players and leave $60m for 47 more. We are rebuilding not 1 player from a Superbowl.