What Can The Redskins Do Specifically To "Protect" RG3?

[Oldfan]

...Question for you...are you against any and all designed QB runs? Even the frequency with which they were used in 2011 with Beck/Grossman? That seems like it would be somewhat of an overcompensation since even non-mobile QBs keep the ball a few times per season (by design)...

In standard Shanahan, the QB has a pass-run option on the bootleg off a stretch play. That's a very safe and effective play that could be a staple on first down calls.

I would be more opposed to pass plays requiring seven step drops from under center because we don't have the O-line to pass protect for that.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

In standard Shanahan, the QB has a pass-run option on the bootleg off a stretch play. That's a very safe and effective play that could be a staple on first down calls.

I would be more opposed to pass plays requiring seven step drops from under center because we don't have the O-line to pass protect for that.

Then I'm all about it. I think the read-option was effective, but if we're all being honest with ourselves, I think we want Griffin to hone the skills necessary to play QB in the NFL for 15 years. When he's 32 years old, he's not going to be as effective on the option and I don't want that to make him a mediocre QB. Does that make sense?

[Morneblade]

On the option, the QB can take it laterally before he pitches it or keeps it.. I don't mean that one. By inside, I mean the cut in the area vacated when the DE slides inside to take the RB.

I'd consider anything outside the tackles as an outside run. And that is where those runs go.

---------- Post added January-9th-2013 at 03:41 PM ----------

In standard Shanahan, the QB has a pass-run option on the bootleg off a stretch play. That's a very safe and effective play that could be a staple on first down calls.

No Idea why we did not see more of those this year. Talk about tailor made for Griff. You cut reads down to 1/2 of the field and get him outside the tackle box. Need alot more of that going forward.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Then I'm all about it. I think the read-option was effective, but if we're all being honest with ourselves, I think we want Griffin to hone the skills necessary to play QB in the NFL for 15 years. When he's 32 years old, he's not going to be as effective on the option and I don't want that to make him a mediocre QB. Does that make sense?

Except that RGIII even in terms of pure fundamentals is well ahead of the rookie curve. His footwork is generally good, as are his mechanics and release. He probably holds the ball a bit too long and we haven't asked him to make multiple WR reads that much (because our WRs aside for Garcon and Moss are mediocre to crap), the #4 on the Saints or Giants would be a #2 here imo.

You're buying into the idiotic media spin about RGIII being a "running" (codeword for "black") quarterback who's not doing the intellectual/mental (codeword for "white") elements of playing quarterback.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Except that RGIII even in terms of pure fundamentals is well ahead of the rookie curve. His footwork is generally good, as are his mechanics and release. He probably holds the ball a bit too long and we haven't asked him to make multiple WR reads that much (because our WRs aside for Garcon and Moss are mediocre to crap), the #4 on the Saints or Giants would be a #2 here imo.

You're buying into the idiotic media spin about RGIII being a "running" (codeword for "black") quarterback who's not doing the intellectual/mental (codeword for "white") elements of playing quarterback.

So, because he's ahead of the curve at 22, he would always stay ahead of the curve if we don't ask him to continue honing those skills? Despite your veiled attempts to call me a racist, I agree with your assessment of Griffin. My point is that those skills and abilities can atrophy if you don't use them. So, if we ran the zone-read offense until Griffin was 28 and then asked him to play the last 7 years of his career as a more pocket passer, he would be behind the curve at that time.

I'm basically saying that we should challenge the kid, let him digest the entire playbook, and let him make plays with his legs when things break down. We agree that he is capable of doing so.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Sorry for the double post.

Anyway, you're focusing too much on the unconventional nature of the offense and not enough on whether RGIII is mastering the fundamentals of the position.

Also, it's not like we run nothing but zone-read.

And frankly, why does RGIII have to become a "traditional pocket passer"? Because the media says so? Elway and Young were never truly traditional pocket passers despite the media trying to revise history to make them so. Certainly not under Shanahan. It's ironic that Young himself is complaining about the offense when he was one of the most prolific running QBs ever.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Except that RGIII even in terms of pure fundamentals is well ahead of the rookie curve. His footwork is generally good, as are his mechanics and release. He probably holds the ball a bit too long and we haven't asked him to make multiple WR reads that much (because our WRs aside for Garcon and Moss are mediocre to crap), the #4 on the Saints or Giants would be a #2 here imo.

You're buying into the idiotic media spin about RGIII being a "running" (codeword for "black") quarterback who's not doing the intellectual/mental (codeword for "white") elements of playing quarterback.

addressed above

[PlayAction]

The original knee injury was a result of a rather freak hit. But, RGIII could devote much more time learning how to slide (Kirk Cousins is much much better at this). Pulling him from the game when his play is ineffective due to injury is a good idea - there's no need to wait until he's carted off the field. Other than that I can't think of anything to protect him - - it's football and he's got to play.

I, for one, am not optimistic that he'll be ready to play at the start of next season. I hope that the Skins wait until he is 100% and can play without a brace. I don't want RGIII to turn into a QB that's injured every year.

[dnpmakkah]

RG3 needs to take less odd hits. When he slides he needs to slide early and often. No need to get the extra yard in the 2nd QTR (as an example). If we have to punt then so be it. When sliding he needs to compact his body and slide with his limbs tightly bound together. Basically, stop sliding with your arms and legs flairing around like he has been. Otherwise, we've had a pretty good offensive line this year.

[Oldfan]

I'd consider anything outside the tackles as an outside run. And that is where those runs go.

If you were discussing the read-option then you would have two outside runs. Do you call one the outside run and the other the more outside run?

[Skinsinparadise]

They can take away Morris; take away the pitch; and force RG3 to keep it and run inside. He will gain yards, but at high risk.

The pitch doesn't seem to be Morris' vintage play but something they sprinkle in. If you contain the outside with yours DEs and lets say extra help from a safety or corner - something has to give, either the inside is open more for a run not just for RG 3 but also Morris or its easier to do successful play action and throw the ball especially right up the middle depending on who in the secondary is providing the additional support

[darrelgreenie]

Yes, he could learn to protect himself better AND the Shanahan's could learn to protect him better by not exposing him to the read-option. It isn't like we have to choose. Both options would be wise.

True. But, I'm not convinced the the designed runs represent a great enough risk given the benefit it provides to the offense. I've heard/read players contend that its easier to protect themselves from hits taken as a 'runner' because they can see where the hits is coming from and either avoid or mitigate the impact from the hit. The read-option is very productive and imo we're only scratching the surface of production it can provide so for me getting rid of the read-option is a non-starter. Imo the best way for the FO to protect Griffin then becomes upgrading the pass protection (specifically RT) and develop Griffin as passer with the ability to make quick reads and get the ball out of his hands quickly. And improving his situational awareness about when and where to take hits vs protect himself. E.g. He must learn that there are times to throw the ball away or take the occasional 'give up' sack that QBs like Petyon and Brady take when they realize the play is dead and they're about to take a needless hit.

[#BgMase76#]

I don't think there's anything we should do differently. None of RGIII's injuries occurred on designed runs. We just need him to play smarter outside of the pocket. It's just like another person already said. RGIII has to play smarter.

[Dirt]

1. Don't let Hiloti Ngata land on your leg. Honestly, if that little tidbit doesn't happen, he's still electrifying everyone throughout the playoffs. After the Atlanta concussion, he showed an obvious change to protect himself. Vs the Ravens, it was the end of the game, it was a must win, like the last 7 turned out to be, so he went upfield for more yards. I mean all this surgery talk is NOT the result of the team doing a bad job of protecting their QB, it's about a nose tackle bending your leg back on your way down...which DOES bring me too...

2. Sliding, even though that game was important and he needed extra yards, he could have sacrificed another 3 or 4 and just got on his back. It's amazing to the fan, we don't understand what's so hard about it, but time after time you see these QBs who just CAN'T do it. He needs to learn it.

[Prototype]

There is no possible way to prevent injuries in the NFL. Standing in the pocket, scrambling, designed runs.. he's gonna get hit in a contact sport.

But if I had one advice to give, it's the Robert needs to run AWAY from the pursuit rather than INTO the pursuit.

[skinzwiz]

Interesting take SW - makes sense.

But reading the other posters up here, no one else thinks that. The bottom line is that RGIII HAD to run and make plays with his legs in order for this team to go on the win streak. The offense lacks weapons to be successful any other way.

[Symbol]

If we never ran the read option he would still be having his knee fixed today. He got injured on busted passing plays.

Speaking as a guy who use to love inflicting pain on QBs, defenders will hit you harder if you're a mobile QB and they think they can scare you into not doing what you would normally do. Now, I never said they should stop using the read option, I said to fix things they either need to stop doing the read option, because defenses are staying tighter because of the threats he gives, OR teach him to slide/protect himself better. Maybe take him to the Nationals practice facility and have them give him slide drills. Teach him that 3rd and long he doesn't need to take the hit to get that first down, we'll need him for more games, just slide and accept that we punt.

This is what I'm saying, but I still believe if he isn't going to learn to protect himself better as a runner, then you take hits away from him. The injuries may have occurred during broken pass plays, but do you honestly believe that at his size, he can continue to take shots that he takes when he runs?

[Morneblade]

If you were discussing the read-option then you would have two outside runs. Do you call one the outside run and the other the more outside run?

Um, are you talking the triple option or are you talking the read option from the pistol formation?

[VeroViper]

We have repaired our investment now it's time to protect him. If we continue to use him as a runner this heavily he will either A) Not last long in this league or Spend his career banged up missing games like other QB's used in this fashion(Vick, McNabb, McNair, etc.) There is a reason running backs have a shelf life of 30 in this league and running QB's spend so much to on IR. Defenders are too big, too fast, and too strong in the NFL. Use his speed for scrambling(a la Steve Young), rollouts and sprinkle in designed runs once in a blue moon. RG III is an incredibly intelligent, clutch and accurate passer. And I want to watch him win for the next 15 years. If we continue running him at this pace he WILL NOT have a long prosperous career.

[Oldfan]

Um, are you talking the triple option or are you talking the read option from the pistol formation?

Both have two outside lanes available according to your definition (outside the tackles).

I have less concern for a run that takes him to the sideline.

---------- Post added January-10th-2013 at 05:16 AM ----------

... I've heard/read players contend that its easier to protect themselves from hits taken as a 'runner' because they can see where the hits is coming from and either avoid or mitigate the impact from the hit...

I've never heard anyone other than Shanahan say that.

Rhetorical question #1: Do you believe that because it makes sense from what you have seen in the NFL or do you believe it because you are intrigued by running the option at NFL level and that theory offers a pretext?

Rhetorical question #2: In Shanahan's shoes would you risk Robert's career on that theory?

I would cut down on the QB runs and cut down on the sacks just as Mike did in 2008 with Jay Cutler. He had one of the best offenses in the NFL allowing only a league leading 11 sacks with an O-line no better than the one we have. He didn't even have a decent RB that season (Although he did have Brandon Marshall).

[BnG4ever326]

start kirk cousins

smh :doh: :chair:

[justice98]

Sliding, sliding, and more sliding.

[NoCalMike]

I really think the read option is getting a bad rap, and a lot of the blame for this, when really the fault lies on RGIII for cutting back into the field of play when if he just took the designed play the for the amount of yardage the defense was giving up, he would have never received either injury. In both instances he tried to extend the play. The first, against Atlanta, it was a busted play from the beginning and he never should have tip toed along the sideline looking for extra inches, and the 2nd, he already had the 1st down, and then decided to cut back into the middle of the field where Ravens defenders were looming. It still really was a freak accident/injury though.

I think not enough folks are looking at how much RGIII gets blasted behind the line of scrimmage on traditional passing plays. That is a combination of O-line's lack of pass protection in order for the big deep plays to develop, and RGIII not getting rid of the ball fast enough when the opposing defense's coverage is doing a good job and there is nowhere to go with the ball.

Go back and torture yourself by watching the Seahawks game. Wilson was running the same read option that the 'Skins use on offense, hell Wilson was even running with the ball straight down the middle of the field, but he wasn't taking the same abuse RGIII was, why? Because Wilson would make sure to slide before any contact was made. Sometimes it seems RGIII knows the defenders are closing in and almost lunges through the air towards the field instead of sliding, inviting the contact.

Those are factors RGIII, and RGIII alone need to work on for Season #2

[justice98]

Honestly, I would work on building the muscles around his knee for better stablization. He needs to be stronger in his legs to withstand the NFL.

His frame in general scares me. He looks like a WR playing QB.

---------- Post added January-10th-2013 at 08:35 AM ----------

I really think the read option is getting a bad rap, and a lot of the blame for this, when really the fault lies on RGIII for cutting back into the field of play when if he just took the designed play the for the amount of yardage the defense was giving up, he would have never received either injury. In both instances he tried to extend the play. The first, against Atlanta, it was a busted play from the beginning and he never should have tip toed along the sideline looking for extra inches, and the 2nd, he already had the 1st down, and then decided to cut back into the middle of the field where Ravens defenders were looming. It still really was a freak accident/injury though.

I think not enough folks are looking at how much RGIII gets blasted behind the line of scrimmage on traditional passing plays. That is a combination of O-line's lack of pass protection in order for the big deep plays to develop, and RGIII not getting rid of the ball fast enough when the opposing defense's coverage is doing a good job and there is nowhere to go with the ball.

I would agree, being that none of these injuries have anything to do with the read option. Not the concussion, nor the two knee injuries.

But it's been said many times that with what Shanahan's scheme brings in run blocking, it tends to lack in pass blocking. I fear what'll happen if we resort to a traditional dropback game in terms of pass protection. The play action basically made our passing game.

[Morneblade]

Both have two outside lanes available according to your definition (outside the tackles).

I have less concern for a run that takes him to the sideline.

Ok, that is what I wanted to know. As for running the read option out of the pistol, I dont have a problem with it. He read is to keep the ball if the DE crashes in. Untill defenses start bringing a LB/saftey to cover Robert he's not at undue risk. Once that happens (and it will) I take that part of the option out and use more play action pass off of it. As for running the conventional option, I would never run that play again.