Rob Jackson's Worth

[delmarvan]

Any chance he moves to ILB? He certainly looks athletic enough.

[TheLongshot]

I don't see anyone here suggesting that we should get rid of Orakpo in order to keep Jackson.

But overvaluing? In his first year as a starter (in 14 games), Jackson has 4 picks and 7 pass deflections. Orakpo's ability as a pass rusher aside, he's been mediocre as a coverage linebacker. Coverage ability in a linebacker is NOT something to be taken lightly. We need to keep Jackson here, and maximize our defense's potential by using him, Kerrigan and Orakpo all together.

I'm responding to people saying he's a starter. With Kerrigan and Orakpo, there aren't a whole lot of snaps for other players.

As for pass defense, you don't typically select OLBs in a 3-4 for their pass defense. (which is why they are typically converted DEs.)

Edit: agree with below that the team could use him, but lets be realistic of how many snaps he'd get with the defense with Orakpo and Kerrigan.

[skinny21]

100% on your side man but I'm getting so tired as is the other side of trying to hash this thing out. Clearly it just is what it is at this point and some people are so sold on their opinion they won't hear anything but what they want to hear. Hopefully we can hold on to Jackson but I would not be surprised if he went elsewhere for a full time starting gig. And of course we're kind of assuming Rak can come back healthy, which I'm really hoping he can.

Yeah, history has shown we need a capable a 3rd OLB. Don't wanna have to use a draft pick and definitely don't wanna let Jackson walk and be forced to pursue a free agent to replace him.

If I recall correctly, Orakpo gets more hurries than most other rushers, whereas Jackson is excellent in coverage. We could really use both going forward.

Not sure about Jackson in the middle covering tight ends. Seems like most of his plays have been in short zone or covering the Rb in the flat. Big difference compared with running down the field with big, athletic TEs.

[Bacon]

We have 3 very good OLBs here with Fletch and Riley handling things nicely in the middle. I don't know why we wouldn't want to maintain that in 2013. We need to get pressure without blitzing and Rak is instrumental to that, so I don't understand how he has been "replaced" by a coverage LB. That's ridiculous.

Our DL is average and the secondary is lousy/occasionally serviceable. There are plenty of pieces that needed to be added and removed. Keep the very solid core we have in between.

[Darth Tater]

Jackson has done an admirable job filling in for Orakpo but if you think he's better, you're nuts. Orakpo would've had over double digit sacks this year and that probably means Kerrigan would have too... That much maligned secondary wouldn't have given up all those yards either because of the pass rush.

Redskins are missing at least 18 sacks for about 118 yards plus another 82 due directly to the increase in sacks. Further, while the additional yards prevented because of the lower accuracy due to this increased pressure is not exact, I'd bet that completion % and yards per completion would be down. Finally, since some of those completions allowed drives to continue, I would also guess that the total number of plays allowed would also be fewer further reducing total yards. We did see, however, that once we adjusted our schemes appropriately and the tackling improved, a lot of the YAC that other team were getting early in the season did seem to fall.

[SkinsTillIDie]

I'm responding to people saying he's a starter. With Kerrigan and Orakpo, there aren't a whole lot of snaps for other players.

As for pass defense, you don't typically select OLBs in a 3-4 for their pass defense. (which is why they are typically converted DEs.)

Edit: agree with below that the team could use him, but lets be realistic of how many snaps he'd get with the defense with Orakpo and Kerrigan.

He is a starter, just not with us. Which is obviously the biggest concern when we try to keep him around this offseason. There are teams who will be more desperate and have more cap room and give him a look

This season, we've seen just how essential depth is. Orakpo's ended the last two seasons with shoulder and pectoral surgeries. Fletcher will be 38 next season. Rob Jackson is a guy who has proven his versatility -- he can tackle, he can rush the passer, he can drop into coverage -- with more time and reps, he's exactly the type of player who can play any linebacker position.

With Haslett's creative schemes, this will be an enormous boost to what we can do, what we can disguise and how we can confuse opposing QBs. He's gotten better every season he's been here and he still has more room to grow.

Simply put, Rob Jackson could be a Cris Clemons type, an unheralded linebacker we let get away too soon and one who developed into a dynamic and game-changing player elsewhere.

Without Jackson's big plays this year, there's a good chance we don't make the playoffs. He's made more gamechanging plays than our star on the otherside, Ryan Kerrigan. If we can re-sign him, he may be technically a backup on the depth chart, but he'll see a ton of playing time. Playing Fletcher 100% of snaps is downright stupid if we want him healthy for the playoffs. We're bound to get injured somewhere, and Jackson's talents can help us on all 3 downs.

Who knows, maybe he takes on a Lorenzo Alexander-role and learns and thrives at ILB -- forming a formidable trio with Perry Riley and Keenan Robinson going forward, once Fletcher hangs up his cleats.

Jackson's a real good player though and we'd be remiss to let him leave.

---------- Post added December-31st-2012 at 12:11 PM ----------

Not sure about Jackson in the middle covering tight ends. Seems like most of his plays have been in short zone or covering the Rb in the flat. Big difference compared with running down the field with big, athletic TEs.

Yeah, this is why we drafted Keenan Robinson

[moondog]

Yeah, history has shown we need a capable a 3rd OLB. Don't wanna have to use a draft pick and definitely don't wanna let Jackson walk and be forced to pursue a free agent to replace him.

If I recall correctly, Orakpo gets more hurries than most other rushers, whereas Jackson is excellent in coverage. We could really use both going forward.

Not sure about Jackson in the middle covering tight ends. Seems like most of his plays have been in short zone or covering the Rb in the flat. Big difference compared with running down the field with big, athletic TEs.

Exactly. It's not like Jackson is some great coverage linebacker or is asked to do more than fan out to the flats occasionally or sit in a zone over the middle. He's asked to do this more than Rak because it plays to their strength. Rak is a great pass rusher so it's smarter to rush him then drop him in coverage. Jackson is not a great pass rusher so it may be more effective to disguise him as a blitzer and drop him and blitz someone else to confuse the O-line. Jackson may be a little better than Rak in coverage and he certainly has better hands but again, I could have picked off that pass last night.

Haslett dialed up a great blitz scheme and I believe it was Fletcher AGAIN coming in unblocked so Romo sits to pee pussed out and tossed a lame duck lob out into the flats right into the waiting hands of Jackson. At that point all he had to do was not drop the ball, same as his pick against Carolina.

It sounds like I'm bashing Jackson - I'm not, I love the kid and I've been a fan ever since we drafted him and was glad he was able to make the roster the last couple years because I felt like he played well in limited duty. He puts himself in good position and he is very reliable to make the play. But people also need to realize he generated zero pressure whatsoever all night and had ONE assisted tackle the whole game. The pick was huge but it had as much to do with the play call and execution of the other players as it did Jackson.

I want Jackson here next year and I'd like to see him on the field a good amount of the time but people that write Rak off as a one trick pony or undervalue him are just plain wrong.

To the original post, I'd say Jackson is probably getting $3-4 million per season (average) and about $10-12 million guaranteed. Not a huge contract but again, if Rak is expected to be healthy I'm not sure we can afford to keep him for that cost as a guy that won't be on the field a ton. Allen is a cap and contract guru but this coming offseason will no doubt keep him extremely busy to keep guys like Jackson while also re-signing Fred Davis, dealing with DHall's contract, signing new FA's and looking to extend players like Rak.

[DeadExField]

Jackson has done an admirable job filling in for Orakpo but if you think he's better, you're nuts. Orakpo would've had over double digit sacks this year and that probably means Kerrigan would have too... That much maligned secondary wouldn't have given up all those yards either because of the pass rush.

Jackson clearly has better ball skills than Orakpo, and is also available to contribute on special teams. I don't know where people have the idea that you can't have both, especially if both want to be here. The Steelers and giants have been doing it for years. Financially, hopefully Bruce can work it out. Both guys may want to be starters, but they believe in the team first and foremost, so I don't see either of them holding out if we decide to play them both in different situations. I'm sure Orakpo would rather be rushing the QB anyway.

Another point is that Orakpo is clearly a threat to any attacking offense, and it would be foolish not to gameplan for him. This is why we see him being targeted and blocked into oblivion. Orakpo is my starter, but I would not be opposed to spelling him with Jackson late in the game or in certain situations, or even in certain gameplans. If either of them are not down with that, then they can walk. We'd be fine with either one at this point. Orakpo's contract is coming up, and it would be foolish not to re-sign him, especially because he is a no nonsense character guy.

[The Full Monty]

Why are some people here arguing a hypothetical? Orakpo wasn't healthy this year.

The same Orakpo who didn't get a divisional sack until last year.

The same Orakpo who still doesn't have an interception.

"If" he wasn't injured we don't know what would've happened because he wasn't there.

Based on his whole career, I've never seen Orakpo make a critical tackle, interception, or sack at a crucial moment to end a drive or change the nature of a game.

I hope he is healthy next year and I'll root for him, but I'm gonna take a wait and see approach before I just assume a 12-sack season or multiple pressures that become interceptions.

[Murphs56]

Why are some people here arguing a hypothetical? Orakpo wasn't healthy this year.

The same Orakpo who didn't get a divisional sack until last year.

The same Orakpo who still doesn't have an interception.

"If" he wasn't injured we don't know what would've happened because he wasn't there.

Based on his whole career, I've never seen Orakpo make a critical tackle, interception, or sack at a crucial moment to end a drive or change the nature of a game.

I hope he is healthy next year and I'll root for him, but I'm gonna take a wait and see approach before I just assume a 12-sack season or multiple pressures that become interceptions.

or a 2 time pro bowler, most sacks of anyone entering the league at his time outside of Clay Matthews going into this year. You don't think he makes a difference? You don't think the defense suffered heavily because of his absence and the ability of people to focus on Kerrigan solely? You think offenses look at tape and say, damn that Rob Jackson, he could really wreak havoc. We need to contain him? No, fact is Jackson did a tremendous job, made big plays, but he doesn't change a defense the way Orakpo can

[Dannyc]

Why are some people here arguing a hypothetical? Orakpo wasn't healthy this year.

The same Orakpo who didn't get a divisional sack until last year.

The same Orakpo who still doesn't have an interception.

"If" he wasn't injured we don't know what would've happened because he wasn't there.

Based on his whole career, I've never seen Orakpo make a critical tackle, interception, or sack at a crucial moment to end a drive or change the nature of a game.

I hope he is healthy next year and I'll root for him, but I'm gonna take a wait and see approach before I just assume a 12-sack season or multiple pressures that become interceptions.

2010 Week 1 against the Cowboys, the holding call on him to end the game. I think going forward Orakpo needs to be used more creatively like Jackson is being used. I don't think it's smart to have him blitz nearly every down, no reason to have him be so one dimensional.

[bigevhfan]

Both Orakpo and Jackson should be kept on this team. I'd like to see Haslett be creative with their usage next season when Orakpo is back. There's nothing wrong with having a lot of pass rushers, the Steelers and Giants have done this for years. Maybe play Jackson at ILB or use Orakpo mostly just on passing downs, things like that.

---------- Post added December-31st-2012 at 02:43 PM ----------

You're right that Orakpo has done a poor job in coverage and run defense over the past couple of seasons, but I wonder how much of that is reflective upon the scheme he was playing in? Jackson has been asked to do different things than Orakpo.

Yep, I see Orakpo more as a 4-3 end or a pass rush LB (Ware, Derrick Thomas, etc) only. I'm not hating on Orakpo as I think he is ridiculously good at what he does best. I'm simply calling it as I see it which is that he is a solid pass rusher. Being a good overall LB means you can rush the qb, hit the gaps to defend the run, and drop back and cover the TE and RB's in passing down's when your number is not called to blitz. Orakpo is not that guy. It's hard to transistion from college to a 3-4 lb which is what they are asking him to do.

[The Full Monty]

or a 2 time pro bowler, most sacks of anyone entering the league at his time outside of Clay Matthews going into this year. You don't think he makes a difference? You don't think the defense suffered heavily because of his absence and the ability of people to focus on Kerrigan solely? You think offenses look at tape and say, damn that Rob Jackson, he could really wreak havoc. We need to contain him? No, fact is Jackson did a tremendous job, made big plays, but he doesn't change a defense the way Orakpo can

Just to be clear, I never argued that Orakpo wouldn't have made a difference. The kind of impact he would've made, we do not know, because it didn't happen. I can only argue, just like any person who wants to make a credible argument, based on what we've actually seen. I'm saying, why inflate a hypothetical of Orakpo's season when:

We've seen Orakpo disappear for long stretches of games and in critical moments. And it's actually kind of pathetic that the best counter-point to my criticism is this:

2010 Week 1 against the Cowboys, the holding call on him to end the game.

That's actually pretty sad when you think about it. Whereas, everyone here who's paying attention has seen Rob Jackson make game-changing plays: interceptions, sacks, turnovers, in divisional games, in the 4th quarter.

My bottom line is that we need to give Rob Jackson a new contract, and not assume that Orakpo can do the same things if only he was healthy.

[TheLongshot]

or a 2 time pro bowler, most sacks of anyone entering the league at his time outside of Clay Matthews going into this year. You don't think he makes a difference? You don't think the defense suffered heavily because of his absence and the ability of people to focus on Kerrigan solely? You think offenses look at tape and say, damn that Rob Jackson, he could really wreak havoc. We need to contain him? No, fact is Jackson did a tremendous job, made big plays, but he doesn't change a defense the way Orakpo can

That's not including all the holding calls Orakpo draws, or that we had 9 more sacks last year with him. Not to mention Kerrigan struggled without the attention Orakpo usualy draws. That's not to say that there isn't room for improvement in Orakpo's game, but he's pretty damn good right now at what we drafted him for: the ability to bring the pressure.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

I think everybody here is basically saying the same thing. One thing to consider is we know what we have in Jackson. We need to keep him here because we don't know how Orakpo will come back from surgery/injury right now.

If he comes back fully healthy then great, hopefully, we can put Orakpo in position to specifcally constantly rush the passer which is his specialty. This will open up things for the entire defense. In doing this, I hope that we can also keep Jackson on the field at the same time and take advantage of his skills as well.

The two can also be used to sub each other out of different packages and keep each other fresh.

It makes no sense to let Jackson walk at this point or draft a rookie pass rusher imo. Let Rak and Kerrigan be our pass rushing specialists.

[braindx]

Like I said in the other thread,

Can't have too many good pass rushers and playmakers taking cues from the Giants.

Steelers have had 3 good OLBs for about 4-5 years now too:

James Harrison, Lamar Woodley, Lawrence Timmons

No reason why we can't do that too as long as it doesn't cost too much,

[taayox]

We need both. Orakpo is the superior pass rusher but Jackson seems to be a more complete LB and can play any LB position. He should get enough playing time next year as the primary backup and sub for all 4 linebacker positions even if Orakpo keeps his starting position.

[illone]

He is a starting OLB.

He is not a back up.

Orakpo is a pass rusher. Jackson is a Linebacker. He needs to be paid. I say we give him a 3 year $6 to $7 mil range. Let Golston walk and give him that money. We can make it work.

EDIT: If last night didn't prove to the Orakpo homers that Rob Jackson is a better football player, I'm moving on from the conversation. The kid is a baller and he makes big plays on the big stage where Orakpo dissappears. End of discussion for me.

Orakpo's best game was against the raiders a few years ago in a meaningless game.

Jackson is the guy you pay and start moving forward, he definitely proved that point last night.

[SkinsTillIDie]

Like I said in the other thread,

Can't have too many good pass rushers and playmakers taking cues from the Giants.

Steelers have had 3 good OLBs for about 4-5 years now too:

James Harrison, Lamar Woodley, Lawrence Timmons

No reason why we can't do that too as long as it doesn't cost too much,

Exactly.

I think people have forgotten how potent our pass rush was with Orakpo and Kerrigan. Watch the Saints game again -- it was devastating. A fully healthy Orakpo and Kerrigan, with our defensive line, is one of the best pass-rushing units in the league.

This season, without Orakpo? Mediocre at best. Jackson, though, has been instrumental in helping deal with Orakpo's loss. He's been what good depth is supposed to do -- step in and play well enough to contribute to winning efforts. Lose Jackson and we essentially lose a 3-round pick player.. what Josh LeRibeus is to the offensive line.

And for everyone who says Orakpo doesn't drop in coverage much, there were games last season where he dropped into coverage MORE than he rushed the passer.

---------- Post added December-31st-2012 at 01:30 PM ----------

Orakpo's best game was against the raiders a few years ago in a meaningless game.

Jackson is the guy you pay and start moving forward, he definitely proved that point last night.

"He's obviously everything you look for in a Pro Bowl player," Shanahan said after Orakpo's season-ending injury. "And we'll miss him."

We have. Our pass-rush hasn't been anywhere near our potential without him. Shanahan doesn't dole out empty praise -- Orakpo is our best defensive player. "Obviously" a pro bowler, in Shanahan's estimation. And in case you weren't watching, he played great against the Saints, and had 3 (3!) pass deflections against Drew Brees. Showcasing improvement in an area he's been criticized for

[DC9]

When exactly has Orakpo had a chance to play on a big stage?

Orakpo was a top 15 pick. He should be a game changer. He is not a game changer. He doesn't force turnovers at big moments and he doesn't get sacks in big moments.

He's had plenty of chances... the last two years we've started 3-1 and Orakpo didn't appear to me to impact any of those games.

[MrJL]

honestly the Skins have ended up in a position where they could switch to a 4-3 again. The way they set themselves up with pass rushing outside LBs and coverage/run stopper inside LB's it seemed like they didn't have two guys to fulfill the responsibilities of an outside backer. But Jackson could play a 4-3 OLB with Rak and Ryan at end.

[8181]

I really hope we don't switch back to 4-3!

I feel like we've found our identity now and I really don't want to go back to that rehauling we did in 2010 and 2011

[TSO]

Why do we always needs to destroy one guy (Orakpo) when we prop another up (Jackson)? They both have proven to bring a lot to the table for us.

[8181]

How about we do a 2-5 set up

Orakpo - Jackson - Fletcher - Riley - Kerrigan

Bowen - Cofield

Hey, they said a pistol offense couldn't work.... lol

[DC9]

100% on your side man but I'm getting so tired as is the other side of trying to hash this thing out. Clearly it just is what it is at this point and some people are so sold on their opinion they won't hear anything but what they want to hear. Hopefully we can hold on to Jackson but I would not be surprised if he went elsewhere for a full time starting gig. And of course we're kind of assuming Rak can come back healthy, which I'm really hoping he can.

Wont hear anything but what they want?

I give you the number 1 coverage OLB in the league. A play maker at Linebacker who forces fumbles, recovers fumbles, and gets interceptions at KEY POINTS IN THE GAME against MULTIPLE WINNING TEAMS. A better pure tackler and run stopper. And a quickly improving pass rusher with 4.5 sacks... and keep in mind he doesn't rush the passer nearly as much as Orakpo would. Maybe 25% as much.

You give me 4 sacks vs the Raiders.

You mad?