County1883 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I would like to say that for the record: I love America and it's citizens and am very proud to stand next to you guys, shoulder to shoulder, during conflict and wars. You guys here on ES are my fellow 'skins and i wouldn't hesitate to have a beer with anyone of you (whether you are pro-guns or not) We all have our own feelings and thoughts on whether the gun laws are right or not. I just hope that you guys find a resolution soon. God bless. Peace. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Should we ban guns. No. Stricter laws, yes. There is no need to ban guns in the country. I'm a liberal myself, but we need to enforce some stricter rules in this country, because what we have now is not working. This I agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrong001 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 What do you think is more dangerous, running from someone with a sword in their hand, or running from someone with a 9mm, swhooting at you?Confiscating anything that could be used to kill someone is ridiculous, considering that there are many different ways that people coul dbe killed by others. Do you have a statistic that shows anything coming remotely close to the amount of gun related murdersd in this country per year? Guns are the most effective way of killing people, not getting hit in the head with a brick. They are also the most effective way to protect yourself, not a brick in your hand. Between 13 and 94 times more effective (on the low end) than using them to kill, going by the numbers I posted in post 108. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 First and foremost, my heart aches for the mother's and father's that lost their little angels to such a cowardly act. When my baby granddaughte comes over tonight I am going to pick her up and not let her go. Now onto the issue at hand. This is the last straw for me: **** the "Right the right to bear arms." A big **** you to the NRA. Last but not least? A bigger **** you to those that say guns don't kill people. I mean the biggest **** you allowed. I think nothing more needs to be said or an explanation is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconTheVillain Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I thought people were used to this kind of thing happening.... Its just part of American life now. And until something changes with gun laws, this is gonna keep happening over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stugein Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Said gun owner could have also misfired and killed an innocent bystander. Come on now. Be serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinInsite Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I thought people were used to this kind of thing happening....Its just part of American life now. And until something changes with gun laws, this is gonna keep happening over and over. Shooting happens, people outraged, time passes, news moving on to something else, nothing changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stugein Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Yet it never happened, so obvious waiting on the Punisher to save day isn't working. Tens of thousands of crimes are stopped and lives saved by lawful use of firearms every year. They don't become tragic horror stories like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Ok, i take that back apologies.I misconstrued your comment as if you were proud of the fact. (forum debates are black and white and sometimes misunderstood) Apologies again! No problem. Though I've never been, I have nothing but respect and admiration for English music, philosophy and culture. Cheers from the U.S of A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrong001 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I think nothing more needs to be said or an explanation is needed. Certainly. I think we all know where you stand now. I appreciate it that you've given me some insight into your thoughts. One more person to ignore. ---------- Post added December-14th-2012 at 01:27 PM ---------- Tens of thousands of crimes are stopped and lives saved by lawful use of firearms every year. They don't become tragic horror stories like this. Try at least a hundred thousand on the extreme low end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinInsite Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Tens of thousands of crimes are stopped and lives saved by lawful use of firearms every year. They don't become tragic horror stories like this. So obviously things are working fine as is, no more discussion is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twofoot Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Come on now. Be serious. ?..I am. I find it just as likely for 'Mr. Gun Hero' to become 'Mr. Oops I missed'. I hope any gun owner would realize the difference between target practice and firing at a live target in a crowded environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 First and foremost, my heart aches for the mother's and father's that lost their little angels to such a cowardly act. When my baby granddaughte comes over tonight I am going to pick her up and not let her go.Now onto the issue at hand. This is the last straw for me: **** the "Right the right to bear arms." A big **** you to the NRA. Last but not least? A bigger **** you to those that say guns don't kill people. I mean the biggest **** you allowed. I think nothing more needs to be said or an explanation is needed. That's a constructive and classy argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I would like to see us tackle this problem on two different fronts. 1) Mental health. One of the biggest failures (of many) in our current health care "system" is in mental health. It just doesn't exist. Most insurance companies don't cover mental health, it is not considered necessary or vital. That needs to end. We have a mental health crisis and families should have a way to get help if they need it and have it covered by their medical insurance. 2) Increased gun control. Full ban on assault-style semi-automatic weapons as well as high-capacity ammunition magazines. Longer, more advanced, and stricter background checks. You should never in any circumstance be able to by a gun the same day. I am not an expert and not steadfast on any of these regulations, but I am open to hearing about what we can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 Tens of thousands of crimes are stopped and lives saved by lawful use of firearms every year. They don't become tragic horror stories like this. Try at least a hundred thousand on the extreme low end... In the interest of a reasonable "debate",you two may want to back those statements up with something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Certainly. I think we all know where you stand now. I appreciate it that you've given me some insight into your thoughts. One more person to ignore.---------- Post added December-14th-2012 at 01:27 PM ---------- Try at least a hundred thousand on the extreme low end... And no lives are lost due to guns. What a wonderful world this is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I would like to see us tackle this problem on two different fronts. 1) Mental health. One of the biggest failures (of many) in our current health care "system" is in mental health. It just doesn't exist. Most insurance companies don't cover mental health, it is not considered necessary or vital. That needs to end. We have a mental health crisis and families should have a way to get help if they need it and have it covered by their medical insurance. 2) Increased gun control. Full ban on assault-style semi-automatic weapons as well as high-capacity ammunition magazines. Longer, more advanced, and stricter background checks. You should never in any circumstance be able to by a gun the same day. I am not an expert and not steadfast on any of these regulations, but I am open to hearing about what we can do. I don't think this really stops anything. High capacity ammo magazines? So what? Just bring another two or three clips to do the dirty deed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
County1883 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I don't think this really stops anything. High capacity ammo magazines? So what? Just bring another two or three clips to do the dirty deed. At least he being constructive man, at least he trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrong001 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 In the interest of a reasonable "debate",you two may want to back those statements up with something. Appologies. I've already cited my source in post 108, but here it is again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Mass murders specifically, I don't know, but FWIW here's the top 20 in general firearm deaths per 100k:El Salvador 50.36 Jamaica 47.44 Honduras 46.70 Guatemala 38.52 Swaziland 37.16 Colombia 28.11 Brazil 19.01 Panama 12.92 Mexico 11.14 Philippines 9.46 South Africa 9.41 United States 9.00 Montenegro 8.55 Paraguay 7.35 Nicaragua 7.14 Switzerland 6.4 Argentina 5.65 Canada 4.78 Zimbabwe 4.75v Serbia 3.90 Not sure if you're trying to make my point for me but you gave a list where the rule of law ain't exactly entrenched. By a long shot. Apart from Switzerland and canada of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pez Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 You should never in any circumstance be able to by a gun the same day. My co-worker here at work told me it takes up to a year to get a gun in India. That kind of wait time should be able to cool folks off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 At least he being constructive man, at least he trying. Sure, he is. Not taking that away from him. But it doesn't take much time to figure that if you ban a clip that holds 30 rounds...well, give me two clips that hold 15. Not necessarily convinced banning an assault gun would really change anything either. The guy today could have done damage with a simple handgun, too. Assault rifles look menacing, sure...however if this guy could have done this with a handgun, or a few rounds from a shotgun with the plug pulled out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I don't think this really stops anything. High capacity ammo magazines? So what? Just bring another two or three clips to do the dirty deed. Maybe. Maybe not. Having to reload weapons = time. Time = lives. Again, it is not the only solution. I want a ban combined with even more regulation (background checks, wait times, style of weapons). That combined with a serious priority on mental health, especially the lack of coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBnotBlades Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I don't think this really stops anything. High capacity ammo magazines? So what? Just bring another two or three clips to do the dirty deed. I don't understand why high capacity clips are legal in the first place. Their ban should have never expired. How do you not see that limiting the number of rounds someone can shoot in a short period of time could be beneficial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrong001 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 And no lives are lost due to guns. What a wonderful world this is. Far more are preserved than lost. It's an issue of balance. Do I think that less murders would be comitted with firearms were they to be banned. Yes, but at a high price I'm not willing to pay, and I don't know how many murders overall would be reduced. Would the number of defensive uses of firearms go down, and a corresponding increase in other violent crimes occur if guns were banned? Yes, I do. And judging by the numbers of defensive uses every year (see post 108 or 144), I would argue that many more people would be harmed in a gun ban situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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