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HTTR 24-7.com: Defensive Dysfunction: How Mike Shanahan Can Fix His Achillies Heel

KCClybun

By KCClybun
in The Stadium

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Lavarleap56

Lavarleap56

Posted
Posted
So you're saying Hasbeen is officially out? Or, are they unsure? An official debate makes it sound like someone wants to keep Haslett. The next few games??? The defense has to step it up now or heads will roll. If we don't beat the Iggles outright, I think it might be over for all the coaches. The team has to make a statement. Players, coaches, owner and fans. Let's do it! Beat Philly!

Granted, we've lost talent on both sides of the ball. Seems to me that an untalented defense should be more aggressive. Haslett is too conservative lately. That's why I'm calling for his head. Who will replace him, I don't know. Just keep any of the Ryan brothers out of D.C. thank you.

Haz is out

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Bishop Hammer

Bishop Hammer

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You have conveniently forgotten that the Browns were very good in his last year in Cleveland before Model announced he was moving the team in the middle of the year. You also seem to conveniently forget that in 2001 Tom Brady didn't really turn into a dominant passer until their last Superbowl win the team Bellicheck won the first Superbowl win was terrible the year before. Don't let your discontent for Bellicheck's succes blind you. He's a hall of fame head coach.

Not to mention Bill has won without Brady. TB had a season ending injury in the first game of the season in and the Pats finished with an 11-5 record with Matt Cassell starting at qb.

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Jumbo

Jumbo

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Jumbo, OF,

Also contributing to the rumor/strong feeling from those that aren't in the crew is the fact that Leslie Frazier offered the Vikings DC job to Raheem Morris straight up... so he picked the Redskins secondary job over the Vikings DC job... I think the writing was on the wall then and there (coupled with Haz and the volleyball tournament escapades that took place in Hampton with guy from hog's haven about trading for the number 2 pick).

At least that's how your boy got there ; )

Good addition, DC, and I know there were other angles beyond the ones I mentioned suggesting there might be a possible promotion of Raheem. Also, reading NLC's excellent reply to OF, I want to note that my post didn't criticize anyone for projecting Raheem as a possible DC here, as I simply didn't feel there was any big reason to criticize. Speculating on him is as reasonable as most other speculations (I knew he had far more than a month experience).

---------- Post added November-16th-2012 at 08:27 PM ----------

Haz is out

Oh delayed snap! :)

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MAATopDogg

MAATopDogg

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People keep saying they want Rex Ryan as defensive coordinator, but I'd really like his defensive coordinator Mike Pettine. I think he's got the right mentality, he's not a hapless yes man, until this year I think he's coached phenomenal defenses. And yeah, Rex is apart of that, but the guy just seems like a better fit for us. Plus he's coordinated a 3-4 and a 4-3, and I'm at the point where I don't give a damn what defense we run, I just want it to be better.

That would be a good hire.

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Oldfan

Oldfan

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Quick question though: how does one gain experience as a DC is they need experience to become a DC?
I could understand being promoted to the job after showing a solid performance as an assistant to a top notch DC. Aside from that, I'd look for some experience.
His wikipedia is wrong.. Raheem was promoted to DC for 1 month then Gruden/Allen were fired. During his tenure as Head coach he took over as DC as well for a year and a half.
Okay, this makes a little more sense. So, basically, he has a year and a half experience in a 43.
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Oldfan

Oldfan

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So, in theory do you want a defense and offense that can play different types of ball depending on the opponent? Or is there a set way to play offense and defense that gives you the best chance to win?
Football strategies evolve, so there's no set way. However, winners are almost always found at the cutting edge of change. IMO, being an "early adapter" is a better strategy than being an innovator. Innovation involves more risk. When Tom Moore installed lots of shotgun for Peyton, he was an innovator at the NFL level. When Belichik saw Peyton's success and gave Brady even more gun, he was an early adapter.

I'm watching Seattle on defense. They're using bigger corners and playing more man-to-man coverage than other teams. I think they will start a trend. I'd like to see the Skins be an early adapter.

Currently, copy cat NFL defensive coaches are playing mostly zone and a lot of bend-don't-break with two deep safeties. That makes it easier for the offense to play ball control and field position. I think it would be smart to take what they give with a vengeance. I'd build a red zone offense. If you can build an offense that would be effective in the red zone, it would be even more effective, grinding out first downs, in less compressed areas on the field.

On defense, I think I would try to take away what the opponent's offense does best. Some DCs plan to take away the run first. I think that makes sense only when the opponent's scheme is built on establishing the run to set up lots of play action.

I distrust head coaches like Ryan or Shanahan who are known for offense or defense. Ryan will favor a conservative offense that will help him keep the score down. Shanahan will favor an overly aggressive defense that will create a lot of takeaways and provide short field advantages for his dynamic offense. The result will be higher scoring games. But the objective of strategy is to win football games, not to influence the scoring level.

Shanahan's history of running through coordinators on the opposite side of the ball is not unusual for coaches known for their offense or defense. There is a natural conflict in strategy when egos and reputations are on the line.

Most of what I offered you is a matter of opinion. But, I hope it gave you an idea of the kind of decision-making that's involved, as I see it.

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KingGibbs

KingGibbs

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Sigh. This doesn't help with my displeasure with Shanny. I keep mentioning that his fingerprints are all over this teams recent failures and this just confirms it. I now honestly believe that Shanny is a stubborn, egomaniac and his downfall is going to be his refusal to relieve himself of his GM duties, replace an incompetent defensive staff, etc.

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RandyHolt

RandyHolt

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I bet behind closed doors Shanahan pins some of his offensive failures on the defense. "Well if they give up that early score after we deferred then teams wouldn't know we had to pass" type of thinking.

Hires don't work out and Haslet is lined up to be the fall guy. Only I see 2 screw ups, 1 pending. Mike should have had a 3-4 expert in here from day 1, since it was new to the team. If Haslet is gone at year end, he should have done it in the bye week and shaken the listless team, and try and salvage the season. Promote Morris, who many saw as an up and coming DC when we got him. Of course, he has limited 34 experience, but we can see if he can do the job next year, save a year of headaches. The pending screw up will be caused by letting the same guy that hired Haslet, retained Slowik, fumbled Spanos, hire the new guy. And rest assured he will be a 4-3 guy as well. And people wonder why some of us ponder that it may be easier to just go back to a 43.

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Gibbs Hog Heaven

Gibbs Hog Heaven

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..... The pending screw up will be caused by letting the same guy that hired Haslet, retained Slowik, fumbled Spanos, hire the new guy. And rest assured he will be a 4-3 guy as well.....

That's the crux of everything.

Whatever your current views on the HC are (and I have to admit after the Carolina debacle, both during and the utter disgrace after my long term support for him has MASSIVELY dwindled); why would ANYONE trust him to hire ANY member of staff? Let alone hand-pick a new coordinator.

Lil' Danny's been more or less the consummate owner the last going on three years (even if we still have the structure wrong in the GM not having personnel control); but I'd back him 100% if he stepped in and took the above responsibility out of the HC's hands.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

If we do, we want certifying.

Hail.

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RandyHolt

RandyHolt

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@GHH I wanted Gruden and if Dan sees the end the season tail spin out of control, we may yet get him. All he has to do is retain Allen who certainly has a red phone to Gruden. I have largely supported the Shanahires and knew I had to give him time to reinvent the OL to zone block. The OL is largely unchanged from last year, and he has his back. Everything else should fall into place. Only, that OL cannot effectively pass protect. I dont care how good a team can run the ball, there will be times the world knows they need to pass, and play action will be laughed at.

Right now, its anytime Morris is out of the game. Mike decided to go the year with just 2 RB's and its failing. It appears his vision was that our WR corp would function as our backup RB. Yes, our WR's collectively have more rushing attempts than Royster.

Ironically, the better Morris does on a drive, the sooner he needs a breather, and we end up with Banks or RG3 sweeps on 3rd and G inside the 5.

Keiland is a backup to Royster. No one wants RG3 to be a RB, Royster clearly is not in favor as an RB with only 12 touches, Grant is gone, Torain up in NY. It seems imperative to me for Mike to give more carries to Darrel Young, and keep Morris fresh for goal line duty, since its clear we do not like to pass inside the 5.

Sorry for the OT rant but Mike's other heel hurts when he has no RB in the game.

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Lavarleap56

Lavarleap56

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I could understand being promoted to the job after showing a solid performance as an assistant to a top notch DC. Aside from that, I'd look for some experience.

Okay, this makes a little more sense. So, basically, he has a year and a half experience in a 43.

Yeah in a 4-3.. For the record I want 3-4 coach and would jump on Rivera.

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moondog

moondog

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3-4 or 4-3...I'm more concerned about the DC. If we brought in Rivera or Crennel I would be absolutely elated. It would mark the first time since Gregg Williams that we would have a competent DC. And yes, I agree with the article that the DC should be given final say on filling out his staff. Both of these guys would bring a fire and a passion that Haslett simply does not. I think Raheem is a very passionate guy as well, but to me it seems like he's more buddy buddy with the players rather than a respected figure like Rivera.

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Mahons21

Mahons21

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That is wrong information...

No it's not. If you'd like to take the time to go back and find the post I mention that as HC, not DC, Raheem Morris did call the plays. However in my opinion, a HC has so many other responsibilities that I didn't feel he could truly garner the experience of a DC while he was HC. Sure he called the plays and was in the meeting rooms, but the times when other DC are focuesed solely on defense Raheem had to be focused on the team as whole.

Furthermore you and others were quite condescening when I said I didn't think it was logical to assume Raheem was the DC in waiting. Since then it seems you've wained on your position a fair amount. I don't think your position stemmed from his performance in the NO game(as NLC asserted in his post), as I recall you made the assertion he was the DC in waiting far before the season started.

These back and forths with you are getting extremely exhausting/irritating. I respect your opinion, but at times I think you speak to factually about information which you yourself have in the past mentioned is "fluid", and then talk down to people who disagree with it. That has been my problem with you. I don't think you should say "Banks is gone, Haslett is gone," and state in a matter of fact manner, because plenty of members on this sight do take what you say as fact unfortunately. When in actuality many times what you're saying is no more than your opinion. The "Banks is gone," quote is in my opinion a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

It's probably best for the sake of the board that from here on out with either a.) quit it with the childish/annoying/trolling posts we've both taken part in, b.) ignore one another.

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illone

illone

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He washed his hands of McNabb pretty quick.

Current word is Slo & Haz both get pink slipped after the season is over.

Yes, he did, but unfortunately the entire handling of the McNabb situation was less than desirable and only points to a deeper issue with his lack of leadership.

SloHaz being gone is music to my ears, hopefully it's already decided no matter what happens the rest of the year.

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darrelgreenie

darrelgreenie

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...Right now, its anytime Morris is out of the game. Mike decided to go the year with just 2 RB's and its failing. It appears his vision was that our WR corp would function as our backup RB. Yes, our WR's collectively have more rushing attempts than Royster.......Sorry for the OT rant but Mike's other heel hurts when he has no RB in the game.
I don't think the problem above is off topic at all and speaks to the overarching problem: general management.

There is no execuse for not having a back capable of spelling Alfred Morris. And before the apologist say its hindsight, I said this about a month ago and during training camp.

The more troubling part its not because of lack of ability to identify talent because Mike and Bobby Turner can pick RBs. No, imo its a failure in forecast/foresight management: our back-up RBs have been hurt since training camp yet no moves to bolster that position was made. Then during the season we scramble and come up with Ryan Grant? Imo I think a GM would have addressed the potential problem in advance.

Just like a GM would have addressed the RT position and OT depth with better players then Jammal Brown and Jordan Black (the mere notion that Jordan Black is on this roster uughhh!!!!!!)

A GM will be able to hire a DC.

---------- Post added November-17th-2012 at 09:34 AM ----------

Butler has been turning down offers to interview the last two offseasons. He's basically the DC in waiting, he'll take it when LeBeau retires.
I didn't know that; but I always view peoples ambition/career related desires as fluid and largely influenced by money and a lil salesmanship.

---------- Post added November-17th-2012 at 09:37 AM ----------

Butler has been turning down offers to interview the last two offseasons. He's basically the DC in waiting, he'll take it when LeBeau retires.
I didn't know that; but I always view peoples ambition/career related desires as fluid and largely influenced by money and a lil salesmanship.
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