HTTR 24-7.com: Defensive Dysfunction: How Mike Shanahan Can Fix His Achillies Heel

[daveakl]

I don't understand this. We aren't talking about an entry-level job. There has to be a minimum experience requirement. I don't know what that might be but one month sounds a tad shy.

To be a DC? I was surprised he got the HC job, but he was def. moving through the ranks to be a DC.

[TK]

Mike Shanahan is way to arrogant to ever admit that he was wrong.

He washed his hands of McNabb pretty quick.

---------- Post added November-16th-2012 at 08:19 PM ----------

If Slowik is on our staff next year, I will be on the fire Shanny bandwagon before training camp starts.

Current word is Slo & Haz both get pink slipped after the season is over.

---------- Post added November-16th-2012 at 08:25 PM ----------

I will be keeping an eye on this one.

Whatcha doing with the other one?

[TSO]

The biggest frustration I have with Shanahan thus far is Slowik. What is it about him that makes him love him? I don't understand it... what has he done that's been good at any point?

---------- Post added November-16th-2012 at 06:27 PM ----------

Current word is Slo & Haz both get pink slipped after the season is over.

Oh my God, you just gave me a million bucks... I hope so.

---------- Post added November-16th-2012 at 06:37 PM ----------

OF, to the best of my memory, Raheem was first floated on the board as a potential Haslett replacement by some (I don't if "all") of the HTTR 24/7 gang during the off-season, and then more prominently after our victory in NO as a guy who deserved the credit for shutting down their passing attack. This was followed for a few weeks with an increasingly strong suggestion he was that likely successor to Haslett for various reasons (including claimed player/Shanahan approval).

Many posters seemed to support and/or reinforce this idea. Then with our d sucking so bad in every pass-defense way week after week, the talk among everyone in that regard, died down. If I have misstated anything, I trust someone will correct me.

That's exactly how I remember it as well. :yes:

[Lavarleap56]

Because a few of the board insiders implied that he only took the secondary coaching job, because he was giving a nod/wink that'd he'd be the DC in waiting. The only reason he wasn't this year was because they wanted to give him a year to learn the 34.

I was the idiot who argued that it was ridiculous notion.

I don't think anyone called you a idiot.... You are a little behind on the information. Fact is Snyder and Allen are Rah guys, Shanahan likes Rah but has some pause about him as a DC based on the 4-3/3-4 deal. The reservations were not there when he was signed because everyone thought the team would be better. The season has not gone as planned obviously and it's tough for Shanny to roll the dice again hoping a 4-3 guy can get it done in a year 4 win or go home season. We discussed this a few days ago, Nlc1054 put some of it into his article , and Jon Gruden is interested in recruiting Rah to be his DC...

Currently the Redskins are monitoring Romeo Crennel and Ron Rivera as replacements for Haslett this offseason. As of right now a final decision has not been made and there still is a internal debate about what to do at DC. Allen is a strong believer in Rah and feels he will make a good HC again someday.. We are going to see how it plays out and what the brain trust decides but Rah is still in the running. How these last few games go will determine a lot for this team going forward.

[DC9]

Jumbo, OF,

Also contributing to the rumor/strong feeling from those that aren't in the crew is the fact that Leslie Frazier offered the Vikings DC job to Raheem Morris straight up... so he picked the Redskins secondary job over the Vikings DC job... I think the writing was on the wall then and there (coupled with Haz and the volleyball tournament escapades that took place in Hampton with guy from hog's haven about trading for the number 2 pick).

At least that's how your boy got there ; )

[KCClybun]

I don't understand this. We aren't talking about an entry-level job. There has to be a minimum experience requirement. I don't know what that might be but one month sounds a tad shy.

Raheem doesn't have just "one month of experience" as a defensive coordinator.

When he originally got the Buccaneers head coaching job in 2009, he had a defensive coordinator, until he realized that d-coordinator sucked. He fired him before preseason. Then he bought on Jim Bates, a guy who was originally supposed to be Shanny's d-coordinator, and then got demoted for Bob Slowik...which shows you everything you need to know about how good Jim Bates was. Raheem fired him after 10 weeks, and the offically took over as defensive coordinator himself.

Raheem was the defensive coordinator for the entirety of the 2010 and 2011 season while he was the head coach. So while he never technically had the title "defensive coordinator", he did all the defensive playcalling and gameplanning while he was in Tampa Bay. When you look at their coaching staff pages on Wikipedia, you'll notice that in 2010 and 2011, no one has the title of defensive coordinator. That was because Raheem was the defensive coordinator. His defense ranked 17th in 2010 and looked promising, and then the Bucs owner went and bought a soccer team and basically shut his wallet and the team didn't get any better and the team went off a cliff and now Raheem is here.

But no. He does not have just a month of experience. He has, at least, two seasons as defensive coordinator, in addition to six games in 2009.

What everyone of HTTR 24-7 said was that Raheem's finger prints were all over the defense versus the Saints; Raheem had had some relative success coordinating against Drew Brees and a lot of the things we did in that game is **** we haven't done since, which basically involved throwing as many defensive looks at Drew Brees as possible and playing a lot of single high safety with press man coverage underneath, which is basically the exact opposite of what Jim Haslett has done, where we play a lot of two deep safety and zone and off man coverage and pray we don't get beat over the top. (We still do.)

I'll also be the first to say that Raheem Morris hasn't done a great job coaching up his defensive backs. He's got the smallest talent level of anyone on the defense, but yeah, Raheem hasn't exactly improved the quality of our defensive backfield. I think LL would also be the first one to say that he had high hopes for Raheem and those high hopes have not been met. Any and everyone who has a problem with that, by all means, take it up with us, because being passive aggressive and indignant about how right you are does not help you look like any less of a jerk. To put it politely. I will say it; I was wrong about Raheem's overall impact on the defense this year. I'll eat crow.

But he turned down a perfectly good job in Minnesota to be the defensive coordinator for a reason. If one actually reads the article instead of just jumping into the fray because they can't weight to put out how I was wrong and they were right, I told you what happened; Raheem Morris is still looking like the man who will get the defensive coordinator job. Nothing is written in stone right now, but it looks like, unless the other coaches who are here (and probably looking and being unemployed, specifically Slowik) convince Shanny to go outside the team, Morris will (likely) get the job.

Other guys we've been looking at have been the aforementioned Ron Rivera if his tenure in Carolina ends, and Romeo Crennel when (yes when) his tenure as the Kansas City Chiefs.

And furthermore, assistant coaches get promoted to defensive coordinator "without experience" all the friggin' time.

[DC9]

I'd be very disappointed as a fan, a season ticket holder, and a guy who knows a little bit about football if the Redskins hired Romeo Crennel to be the DC...

I mean... he's at the top of the list when it comes to making money off of Belichek... right up there with Matt Cassell. At least Weis had a couple of good seasons with Notre Dame, but Romeo hasn't done much of anything at all anywhere he's been.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

And what if the most dysfunctional of all happens to be the guy picking the new DC?

Hail.

[skinny21]

The argument in the OP is unsound because it is based on a hidden premise which is false.

The hidden premise is that the offensive and defensive units of a football team are independent of each other. They are not. Those units must be designed together, so that they compliment each other to achieve the goal of winning football games.

The performances of offenses and defenses interact. A defense can be designed to make itself look good on the points against stat. A different scheme can be designed to help the offense look good on the points scored stat. Or, a third can be designed to help the offense win football games. It's the head coach's responsibility to choose the option that will win football games. It would be unwise for Mike to delegate that responsibility.

So, in theory do you want a defense and offense that can play different types of ball depending on the opponent? Or is there a set way to play offense and defense that gives you the best chance to win?

[KCClybun]

So, in theory do you want a defense and offense that can play different types of ball depending on the opponent? Or is there a set way to play offense and defense that gives you the best chance to win?

Basically whatever the Patriots do if history is any indication.

[Hitman21ST]

I don't understand this. We aren't talking about an entry-level job. There has to be a minimum experience requirement. I don't know what that might be but one month sounds a tad shy.

Quick question though: how does one gain experience as a DC is they need experience to become a DC?

[DC9]

And what if the most dysfunctional of all happens to be the guy picking the new DC?

Hail.

I'm right there with you... I suspect the only way we will find out is if we win on Sunday. I don't think Shanny will survive what will happen if he only wins three games this year...

[DC9]

Basically whatever the Patriots do if history is any indication.

So back to the 4-3?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I'm right there with you... I suspect the only way we will find out is if we win on Sunday. I don't think Shanny will survive what will happen if he only wins three games this year...

Sunday will be VERY telling.

If he's lost the players like I fear, then I honestly don't want to be 'told' the next two games. Sighs.

Hail.

[brandymac27]

So back to the 4-3?

We shouldn't have ever switched to the 34 impo, but that's neither here nor there at this point. I think if we lose the Philly game, Shanny is gone this OS. No way do I think we'll go into year 4 with him with this kind of record. So, I wonder, with a new HC (and hopefully a new GM), how the overall dynamics will play out as far as a new DC goes.

[Hitman21ST]

Basically whatever the Patriots do if history is any indication.

Nevermind that Belichick is incredibly overrated as a coach. He struck gold with Brady and has been riding that the entire way. People that like to use him as the "shining example" conveniently seem to forget that he sucked as a HC in Cleveland and hasn't exactly made stellar personnel moves post-Brady.

Brady bought him a lot of leeway, so whoever he brings in (Haynesworth, Gaffney) or gets rid of (Seymour) it's viewed as "shrewd" and "a great move" no matter how bad it is.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

We shouldn't have ever switched to the 34 impo, but that's neither here nor there at this point. I think if we lose the Philly game, Shanny is gone this OS. No way do I think we'll go into year 4 with him with this kind of record. So, I wonder, with a new HC (and hopefully a new GM), how the overall dynamics will play out as far as a new DC goes.

There's another major question mark as to whether we change DC's before the years out. (Not saying we're thinking of that, Just a 'what if'').

If there's ANY question mark at all about his long term future, then there's ZERO way he should be hand-picking another coordinator when any possible successor may not want that guy/ system.

Hail.

[DC9]

We shouldn't have ever switched to the 34 impo, but that's neither here nor there at this point. I think if we lose the Philly game, Shanny is gone this OS. No way do I think we'll go into year 4 with him with this kind of record. So, I wonder, with a new HC (and hopefully a new GM), how the overall dynamics will play out as far as a new DC goes.

I actually like the 3-4. But we don't really play a 3-4 defense... we play a 5-2.

I know the 4-3 didn't get us where we wanted to be in 2009 and 2008... that said... if we were to switch back (hypothetically) we would have some pretty good trade bait with how deep we just got a DT ;

EDIT: I just realized that I didn't comment on your post...lol

Honestly, if the Redskins can score points like I think they can... I am okay going with a Tampa 2 defense like the Bears have. We did okay with Greg Williams' defense for the most part, and it's built to hold a lead.

[DC9]

Nevermind that Belichick is incredibly overrated as a coach. He struck gold with Brady and has been riding that the entire way. People that like to use him as the "shining example" conveniently seem to forget that he sucked as a HC in Cleveland and hasn't exactly made stellar personnel moves post-Brady.

I completely disagree and think it's the other way around. But I don't want to derail the thread with this one.

[skinny21]

Basically whatever the Patriots do if history is any indication.

Lol! I keep an open mind with OF, but still... good one.

So, I thought a read somewhere (breaking new section, I believe) that he had verbally committed to the Redskins when the Vikings called. Stuck to his word and picked the 'Skins.

[brandymac27]

There's another major question mark as to whether we change DC's before the years out. (Not saying we're thinking of that, Just a 'what if'').

If there's ANY question mark at all about his long term future, then there's ZERO way he should be hand-picking another coordinator when any possible successor may not want that guy/ system.

Hail.

Let's say Mike gets the boot and Kyle takes over, plus we get a new GM. Are we still looking at Romeo and Morris in this scenario?

[Bishop Hammer]

People keep saying they want Rex Ryan as defensive coordinator, but I'd really like his defensive coordinator Mike Pettine. I think he's got the right mentality, he's not a hapless yes man, until this year I think he's coached phenomenal defenses. And yeah, Rex is apart of that, but the guy just seems like a better fit for us. Plus he's coordinated a 3-4 and a 4-3, and I'm at the point where I don't give a damn what defense we run, I just want it to be better.

When you put it that way I'm sold on the guy. Rex might not want to come here whereas Pettine would. And I agree a hundred percent about just wanting the D to get better. Whatever will fix that side of the ball I'm game for.

[Lavarleap56]

Am I reading this right? Does Raheem Morris have just one month experience as an NFL DC?

Wikipedia:

His wikipedia is wrong.. Raheem was promoted to DC for 1 month then Gruden/Allen were fired. During his tenure as Head coach he took over as DC as well for a year and a half.

---------- Post added November-17th-2012 at 03:36 AM ----------

You certainly are, I brought that point up countless times when people were arguing that Morris was the DC in waiting.

That is wrong information...

[SJValleySkinz]

Nevermind that Belichick is incredibly overrated as a coach. He struck gold with Brady and has been riding that the entire way. People that like to use him as the "shining example" conveniently seem to forget that he sucked as a HC in Cleveland and hasn't exactly made stellar personnel moves post-Brady.

Brady bought him a lot of leeway, so whoever he brings in (Haynesworth, Gaffney) or gets rid of (Seymour) it's viewed as "shrewd" and "a great move" no matter how bad it is.

You have conveniently forgotten that the Browns were very good in his last year in Cleveland before Model announced he was moving the team in the middle of the year. You also seem to conveniently forget that in 2001 Tom Brady didn't really turn into a dominant passer until their last Superbowl win the team Bellicheck won the first Superbowl win was terrible the year before. Don't let your discontent for Bellicheck's succes blind you. He's a hall of fame head coach.

[ComManDersFan57]

Currently the Redskins are monitoring Romeo Crennel and Ron Rivera as replacements for Haslett this offseason. As of right now a final decision has not been made and there still is a internal debate about what to do at DC. Allen is a strong believer in Rah and feels he will make a good HC again someday.. We are going to see how it plays out and what the brain trust decides but Rah is still in the running. How these last few games go will determine a lot for this team going forward.

So you're saying Hasbeen is officially out? Or, are they unsure? An official debate makes it sound like someone wants to keep Haslett. The next few games??? The defense has to step it up now or heads will roll. If we don't beat the Iggles outright, I think it might be over for all the coaches. The team has to make a statement. Players, coaches, owner and fans. Let's do it! Beat Philly!

Granted, we've lost talent on both sides of the ball. Seems to me that an untalented defense should be more aggressive. Haslett is too conservative lately. That's why I'm calling for his head. Who will replace him, I don't know. Just keep any of the Ryan brothers out of D.C. thank you.