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Kilmer17's roadmap to fix the GOP


Kilmer17

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I know, why don't those Republicans with some brains wake up to the reality that the Tea Party is the John Birch Society.

They already know that it is.

They also know that, without them, the GOP has about 25% of the vote, nationally.

Not that there's much chance of the GOP losing them. It's not like they're going to switch, and vote D. But if they just stay home, the GOP becomes irrelevent, nationally.

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They already know that it is.

They also know that, without them, the GOP has about 25% of the vote, nationally.

Not that there's much chance of the GOP losing them. It's not like they're going to switch, and vote D. But if they just stay home, the GOP becomes irrelevent, nationally.

 

Didn't they say they would break off and create an official Tea Party? I mean, that doesn't really do anything to win people from the middle. Taking people from the GOP would only hurt your cause in the long run.

 

Either way, this whole Indiana thing has been a nightmare for those who passed it recently. The myth that it is about religious freedom for a copy (which is the same as a person somehow), but any businesses in the state that rely on travel from outside biz or gov't will use this as an excuse if they aren't growing. Even if its not true. Some hotel chain will blame the Governor because (X) convention picked somewhere else.

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From my original post-

 

"The GOP lost the WH and winnable Senate seats because they allow themselves to be painted as extremists, most of the time because they do it to themselves.

Focus on the things that are TRULY important."

 

Sound familiar?  This Indiana law is unnecessary and stupid politically for Pence and Indiana.  And it provides a potential issue hammer for the left to use against national figures.  And while I don't THINK it will have any affect nationally, there was no reason for it to come up at all, and it takes the air out of the room for any other issue for a while.

 

Stupid stupid stupid.          

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I truly hope that one day we can live in a world in which American white christians are not persecuted.

 

The pains these people have felt are truly unspeakable. Someone needs to stand-up for the little guys.

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I'm not defending the GOP at all. I'm saying I don't think Jeb bush support of the gov signing the bill is any different than Bill Clinton signing it on the federal level when it relates to the overall political importance.

I think it hurts mike pence. But not Jeb nationally

 

I agree

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From just a comedy stand point - it is pretty amazing that conservatives best defense of RFRA laws is to proclaim loudly "our legislation doesn't actually do anything!!" 

 

Now, now, now.  It protects small business owners from legislation that hasn't even been proposed, let alone have a chance of being passed.  

 

It's kinda like those laws that say people can carry guns into bars.  It's being passed to protect gun owners from all of the gun confiscation laws. 

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They already know that it is.

They also know that, without them, the GOP has about 25% of the vote, nationally.

Not that there's much chance of the GOP losing them. It's not like they're going to switch, and vote D. But if they just stay home, the GOP becomes irrelevent, nationally.

 

See, I think that and my next thought is - So alter your image to appeal to more people in the middle.

 

They think that and their next thought is - Keep getting crazier so we continue to appeal to this extreme group, there's no way that could ever come back to bite us...

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  And while I don't THINK it will have any affect nationally, there was no reason for it to come up at all, and it takes the air out of the room for any other issue for a while.

 

Stupid stupid stupid.          

 

Oh ho ho, you are selling the democrats (specifically the Clinton campaign) short then.

 

They're going to use this to make this an issue for every GOP nominee - the questions will be phrased to corner the candidates into a situation where gays are pitted against the religious. Who do you think the nominees are going to choose? They'll rightfully choose* the religious, and they'll be hit over the head with the bigotry bat for it.

 

The GOP is consistently a few steps behind right now. They don't get it. They suck at the messaging thing and it's causing them to shoot themselves in the foot repeatedly.

 

I mean for the love of God stop fighting gay marriage. It's over. You cannot win. You're fighting formalities at the expense of winning elections because the number of people who are falling for the nonsense coverup (most often religious beliefs) is falling.

 

*I say "rightfully choose" because they have way more to lose by trying to appeal to gays than they do by appealing to religious. They've pretty much ruined any chance of getting strong support from that community.  This has become a trend for the GOP...

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And yet, they won the House and Senate after doing a number of these truly crazy things. The voters still pulled the lever for them. It's a standard Pavlovian (actually Skinnerian but who cares) behavioral trend. Behavior leads to a treat leads to increase in behavior. Any time anyone pulls that level it's giving the Republicans who do crazy **** an M&M.

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I don't think that's true B. I think they won the last election because they kept the stupid and controversial out of the picture

 

Not according to the folks who won the election. 

 

They won because God declared that Their Cause Is Right.  They now have a Divine Mandate to implement the crazy things they were advocating, before. 

 

Look at the budget framework they've pretty much passed.  They're going to repeal Obamacare.  (But keep the revenues, and the cost savings, that it includes.)  They're going to cut taxes some more.  (I'm sorry.  They're going to "reform the tax code" in ways that they won't specify.)  But don't worry, they're going to pay for it by cutting Medicare every year for 20 years.  ("But it's not a cut, they're just going to spend the same money they're spending now.") 

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Not according to the folks who won the election. 

 

They won because God declared that Their Cause Is Right.  They now have a Divine Mandate to implement the crazy things they were advocating, before. 

 

Look at the budget framework they've pretty much passed.  They're going to repeal Obamacare.  (But keep the revenues, and the cost savings, that it includes.)  They're going to cut taxes some more.  (I'm sorry.  They're going to "reform the tax code" in ways that they won't specify.)  But don't worry, they're going to pay for it by cutting Medicare every year for 20 years.  ("But it's not a cut, they're just going to spend the same money they're spending now.") 

Who said that Larry?  the part about God declaring their cause is right?

 

The second part is precisely how they won.  They stayed on message.  And its a message the majority of Americans want.

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Who said that Larry?  the part about God declaring their cause is right?

 

The second part is precisely how they won.  They stayed on message.  And its a message the majority of Americans want.

If the majority of Americans wanted the government to cut taxes on billionaires, and pay for it by reducing Medicare to uselessness, then they wouldn't have to be working so hard on trying to find the right deceptive packaging for their plan.

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From just a comedy stand point - it is pretty amazing that conservatives best defense of RFRA laws is to proclaim loudly "our legislation doesn't actually do anything!!" 

 

I was reading the statute yesterday, and that seems to be mostly true.  I think it does very little, and both sides have it mostly wrong.

 

The text reads as basically a hornbook statement on constitutional law, and what the government has to demonstrate in order to infringe on freedom of religion (a compelling interest, a narrowly tailored statute that is as unobtrusive as possible, etc.).  I can't figure out why the anti-gay lobby thinks they are getting anything out of this statute.  If you ask me, they got sold a bill of goods by the governor. The statute just doesn't say what they think it says, in a strict textual view. (But what they were told it says is what set off this PR ****storm in the first place.) 

 

On the flip side, gay people in Indiana are not protected by any state anti-discrimination law currently on the books.  They are not "winning" much, if anything, substantive by getting this law thrown out or amended.  They are still subject to all sorts of discrimination that is legal with or without the rfra. 

 

This whole battle seems to have been about perception.  The governor wanting to give the not-so-subtle goahead to people who don't like/approve of gay folks to refuse to provides services to them.  Gay people showing that they're no longer a powerless minority that can just be kicked around on a whim. 

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I'm not defending the GOP at all. I'm saying I don't think Jeb bush support of the gov signing the bill is any different than Bill Clinton signing it on the federal level when it relates to the overall political importance.

I think it hurts mike pence..

 

 Mike Pence would obviously disagree that this hurts him, and he's not a dumb guy. So what's he thinking?

 

Pence is limited to two consecutive terms in Indiana. If he's angling for a VP slot in 2016, this move might make sense, since it broadens his name recognition and his appeal to the base.

 

If the VP offer doesn't come, then he can always have the same "change of heart" that Bush 41 had on abortion, or that Obama had on gay marriage, once it becomes expedient to do so.

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If the majority of Americans wanted the government to cut taxes on billionaires, and pay for it by reducing Medicare to uselessness, then they wouldn't have to be working so hard on trying to find the right deceptive packaging for their plan.

Again, who said the part about God?

 

And the majority of Americans didn't believe the Democrat spin you just posted.  They believed the GOP spin. 

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Majority of americans is a bit of a disingenuous spin on the last election. Majority of americans who bothered showing up at the polls bought the GOP spin. In a historically low voter turnout, it's hard to get a sense of where most Americans stand on issues. It seems to be capitalization on peoples apathy rather than winning on a platform that resonates with the public.

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 Mike Pence would obviously disagree that this hurts him, and he's not a dumb guy. So what's he thinking?

 

Pence is limited to two consecutive terms in Indiana. If he's angling for a VP slot in 2016, this move might make sense, since it broadens his name recognition and his appeal to the base.

 

If the VP offer doesn't come, then he can always have the same "change of heart" that Bush 41 had on abortion, or that Obama had on gay marriage, once it becomes expedient to do so.

 

Has Obama also evolved on the RFRA he voted for?  :lol:

 

I see no threats or picketing  

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