Kilmer17 Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Sure. But it's a wink wink to the base while giving them a shut the eff up to the left wing hate media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I know, why don't those Republicans with some brains wake up to the reality that the Tea Party is the John Birch Society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I know, why don't those Republicans with some brains wake up to the reality that the Tea Party is the John Birch Society. They already know that it is. They also know that, without them, the GOP has about 25% of the vote, nationally. Not that there's much chance of the GOP losing them. It's not like they're going to switch, and vote D. But if they just stay home, the GOP becomes irrelevent, nationally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 They already know that it is. They also know that, without them, the GOP has about 25% of the vote, nationally. Not that there's much chance of the GOP losing them. It's not like they're going to switch, and vote D. But if they just stay home, the GOP becomes irrelevent, nationally. Didn't they say they would break off and create an official Tea Party? I mean, that doesn't really do anything to win people from the middle. Taking people from the GOP would only hurt your cause in the long run. Either way, this whole Indiana thing has been a nightmare for those who passed it recently. The myth that it is about religious freedom for a copy (which is the same as a person somehow), but any businesses in the state that rely on travel from outside biz or gov't will use this as an excuse if they aren't growing. Even if its not true. Some hotel chain will blame the Governor because (X) convention picked somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 From my original post- "The GOP lost the WH and winnable Senate seats because they allow themselves to be painted as extremists, most of the time because they do it to themselves.Focus on the things that are TRULY important." Sound familiar? This Indiana law is unnecessary and stupid politically for Pence and Indiana. And it provides a potential issue hammer for the left to use against national figures. And while I don't THINK it will have any affect nationally, there was no reason for it to come up at all, and it takes the air out of the room for any other issue for a while. Stupid stupid stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I agree with you Larry. My Republican alderman grandfather is rolling in his grave. And Democrats can add this nonsense to the War on Women that the Republican extremists continue to wage on women's right to bodily autonomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Bodily autonomy seems to disproportionately lessen the female population.....self hate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I truly hope that one day we can live in a world in which American white christians are not persecuted. The pains these people have felt are truly unspeakable. Someone needs to stand-up for the little guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I thought we were persecuting the black and latino Christians? http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/kjiq262abk/tabs_OPI_obama_ssm_20150212.pdf #6 says.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I'm not defending the GOP at all. I'm saying I don't think Jeb bush support of the gov signing the bill is any different than Bill Clinton signing it on the federal level when it relates to the overall political importance. I think it hurts mike pence. But not Jeb nationally I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 From just a comedy stand point - it is pretty amazing that conservatives best defense of RFRA laws is to proclaim loudly "our legislation doesn't actually do anything!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 From just a comedy stand point - it is pretty amazing that conservatives best defense of RFRA laws is to proclaim loudly "our legislation doesn't actually do anything!!" Now, now, now. It protects small business owners from legislation that hasn't even been proposed, let alone have a chance of being passed. It's kinda like those laws that say people can carry guns into bars. It's being passed to protect gun owners from all of the gun confiscation laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 But... but... THEY CAN GOVERN!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 They already know that it is. They also know that, without them, the GOP has about 25% of the vote, nationally. Not that there's much chance of the GOP losing them. It's not like they're going to switch, and vote D. But if they just stay home, the GOP becomes irrelevent, nationally. See, I think that and my next thought is - So alter your image to appeal to more people in the middle. They think that and their next thought is - Keep getting crazier so we continue to appeal to this extreme group, there's no way that could ever come back to bite us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 And while I don't THINK it will have any affect nationally, there was no reason for it to come up at all, and it takes the air out of the room for any other issue for a while. Stupid stupid stupid. Oh ho ho, you are selling the democrats (specifically the Clinton campaign) short then. They're going to use this to make this an issue for every GOP nominee - the questions will be phrased to corner the candidates into a situation where gays are pitted against the religious. Who do you think the nominees are going to choose? They'll rightfully choose* the religious, and they'll be hit over the head with the bigotry bat for it. The GOP is consistently a few steps behind right now. They don't get it. They suck at the messaging thing and it's causing them to shoot themselves in the foot repeatedly. I mean for the love of God stop fighting gay marriage. It's over. You cannot win. You're fighting formalities at the expense of winning elections because the number of people who are falling for the nonsense coverup (most often religious beliefs) is falling. *I say "rightfully choose" because they have way more to lose by trying to appeal to gays than they do by appealing to religious. They've pretty much ruined any chance of getting strong support from that community. This has become a trend for the GOP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 And yet, they won the House and Senate after doing a number of these truly crazy things. The voters still pulled the lever for them. It's a standard Pavlovian (actually Skinnerian but who cares) behavioral trend. Behavior leads to a treat leads to increase in behavior. Any time anyone pulls that level it's giving the Republicans who do crazy **** an M&M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 I don't think that's true B. I think they won the last election because they kept the stupid and controversial out of the picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I don't think that's true B. I think they won the last election because they kept the stupid and controversial out of the picture Not according to the folks who won the election. They won because God declared that Their Cause Is Right. They now have a Divine Mandate to implement the crazy things they were advocating, before. Look at the budget framework they've pretty much passed. They're going to repeal Obamacare. (But keep the revenues, and the cost savings, that it includes.) They're going to cut taxes some more. (I'm sorry. They're going to "reform the tax code" in ways that they won't specify.) But don't worry, they're going to pay for it by cutting Medicare every year for 20 years. ("But it's not a cut, they're just going to spend the same money they're spending now.") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 Not according to the folks who won the election. They won because God declared that Their Cause Is Right. They now have a Divine Mandate to implement the crazy things they were advocating, before. Look at the budget framework they've pretty much passed. They're going to repeal Obamacare. (But keep the revenues, and the cost savings, that it includes.) They're going to cut taxes some more. (I'm sorry. They're going to "reform the tax code" in ways that they won't specify.) But don't worry, they're going to pay for it by cutting Medicare every year for 20 years. ("But it's not a cut, they're just going to spend the same money they're spending now.") Who said that Larry? the part about God declaring their cause is right? The second part is precisely how they won. They stayed on message. And its a message the majority of Americans want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Who said that Larry? the part about God declaring their cause is right? The second part is precisely how they won. They stayed on message. And its a message the majority of Americans want. If the majority of Americans wanted the government to cut taxes on billionaires, and pay for it by reducing Medicare to uselessness, then they wouldn't have to be working so hard on trying to find the right deceptive packaging for their plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliz Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 From just a comedy stand point - it is pretty amazing that conservatives best defense of RFRA laws is to proclaim loudly "our legislation doesn't actually do anything!!" I was reading the statute yesterday, and that seems to be mostly true. I think it does very little, and both sides have it mostly wrong. The text reads as basically a hornbook statement on constitutional law, and what the government has to demonstrate in order to infringe on freedom of religion (a compelling interest, a narrowly tailored statute that is as unobtrusive as possible, etc.). I can't figure out why the anti-gay lobby thinks they are getting anything out of this statute. If you ask me, they got sold a bill of goods by the governor. The statute just doesn't say what they think it says, in a strict textual view. (But what they were told it says is what set off this PR ****storm in the first place.) On the flip side, gay people in Indiana are not protected by any state anti-discrimination law currently on the books. They are not "winning" much, if anything, substantive by getting this law thrown out or amended. They are still subject to all sorts of discrimination that is legal with or without the rfra. This whole battle seems to have been about perception. The governor wanting to give the not-so-subtle goahead to people who don't like/approve of gay folks to refuse to provides services to them. Gay people showing that they're no longer a powerless minority that can just be kicked around on a whim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney B Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I'm not defending the GOP at all. I'm saying I don't think Jeb bush support of the gov signing the bill is any different than Bill Clinton signing it on the federal level when it relates to the overall political importance. I think it hurts mike pence.. Mike Pence would obviously disagree that this hurts him, and he's not a dumb guy. So what's he thinking? Pence is limited to two consecutive terms in Indiana. If he's angling for a VP slot in 2016, this move might make sense, since it broadens his name recognition and his appeal to the base. If the VP offer doesn't come, then he can always have the same "change of heart" that Bush 41 had on abortion, or that Obama had on gay marriage, once it becomes expedient to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 If the majority of Americans wanted the government to cut taxes on billionaires, and pay for it by reducing Medicare to uselessness, then they wouldn't have to be working so hard on trying to find the right deceptive packaging for their plan. Again, who said the part about God? And the majority of Americans didn't believe the Democrat spin you just posted. They believed the GOP spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Majority of americans is a bit of a disingenuous spin on the last election. Majority of americans who bothered showing up at the polls bought the GOP spin. In a historically low voter turnout, it's hard to get a sense of where most Americans stand on issues. It seems to be capitalization on peoples apathy rather than winning on a platform that resonates with the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Mike Pence would obviously disagree that this hurts him, and he's not a dumb guy. So what's he thinking? Pence is limited to two consecutive terms in Indiana. If he's angling for a VP slot in 2016, this move might make sense, since it broadens his name recognition and his appeal to the base. If the VP offer doesn't come, then he can always have the same "change of heart" that Bush 41 had on abortion, or that Obama had on gay marriage, once it becomes expedient to do so. Has Obama also evolved on the RFRA he voted for? I see no threats or picketing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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