Kosher Ham Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 People need to take into account the conditioning of fighters in Tysons prime as opposed to Ali's prime also. The modern athlete is markedly more conditioned. As an old head and someone who loves Ali (Grandmother was friends with his and Ray Robinson)...I think Tyson would take him. Tyson was equally fast, Ali's reach is negated by Tyson's D and stocky stature. People forget Tyson has/had a 21 inch neck. That guy was a brick. I believe Tyson was stronger also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 People need to take into account the conditioning of fighters in Tysons prime as opposed to Ali's prime also. The modern athlete is markedly more conditioned. As an old head and someone who loves Ali (Grandmother was friends with his and Ray Robinson)...I think Tyson would take him. Tyson was equally fast, Ali's reach is negated by Tyson's D and stocky stature. People forget Tyson has/had a 21 inch neck. That guy was a brick. I believe Tyson was stronger also. Wouldn't you say Frazier and Foreman were stronger than Ali also? It's not like he made a career out of beating fighters weaker than him. I think in the early rounds advantage Tyson, later rounds advantage Ali. What would be awesome is the pre-fight press conferences. A legendary trash talker like Ali spewing at a psychopath like Tyson, now I'd pay to see that on PPV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan07 Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 People need to take into account the conditioning of fighters in Tysons prime as opposed to Ali's prime also. The modern athlete is markedly more conditioned. As an old head and someone who loves Ali (Grandmother was friends with his and Ray Robinson)...I think Tyson would take him. Tyson was equally fast, Ali's reach is negated by Tyson's D and stocky stature. People forget Tyson has/had a 21 inch neck. That guy was a brick. I believe Tyson was stronger also. Agreed. SN: Was watching some old Sugar Ray fights earlier. That dude IMO is the best boxer of all-time. He was amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Agreed. SN: Was watching some old Sugar Ray fights earlier. That dude IMO is the best boxer of all-time. He was amazing. Most say he was the best pound for pound boxer ever no? I LOVE when his fights come on ESPN Classic. Side note - have you seen Ali's workout regime/nutrition stuff. The guy trained so damn well, especially for an athlete in the 60s. Not using this as any part of the argument, just as a PS cause it's cool to watch/read about. He worked his ass off to be as good as he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Tyson could destroy any boxer that ever lived in a phone booth, but speed, footwork, height, reach, smarts...All of that together is Tyson's worst nightmare as far as matchups are concerned. And I don't think Tyson took his conditioning seriously towards the latter portion of his dominant years. And maybe today's boxers are more built, but as far as stamina/conditioning is concerned, I don't think they would last as long as guys that trained for longer rounds were before them. Not to mention that Ali would make Tyson's tongue hang out. But also, Tyson had the power to end every fight in the blink of an eye, and Ali would definitely have to account for that, as he sometimes probably got a little full of himself. All it would take is a little slip up, or for Tyson to feint, and it's Good Night Irene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Most say he was the best pound for pound boxer ever no? Its hard to get boxing heads to agree on anything, but its damn near unanimous that Sugar Ray Robinson is the best ever pound 4 pound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Early in his career Ali hardly got hit at all (see .gif above).And late in his career he absorbed massive shots from George Foreman, who was more powerful than Tyson and had dominated great boxers like Joe Frazier and Ken Norton. End of story. Muhammad Ali was simply the best at avoiding or absorbing punishment. Great punchers like Ernie Shavers, Ron Lyle, and Bobby Foster used to complain that you just couldn't hit Ali clean. Everything was a partial miss. I'm not even sure Mike Tyson would have beaten a young Joe Frazier or George Forman. Buster Douglas did exactly what young Muhammad Ali would have done to Tyson 9 times out of 10. (In retrospect, Evander Holyfield turned out to be the best HW fighter of Tyson's era. He beat Mike twice.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Its hard to get boxing heads to agree on anything, but its damn near unanimous that Sugar Ray Robinson is the best ever pound 4 pound. Yeah he was the best. Serious business in the ring, and from what I understand a really good guy outside of the ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Tyson could destroy any boxer that ever lived in a phone booth, but speed, footwork, height, reach, smarts...All of that together is Tyson's worst nightmare as far as matchups are concerned. And I don't think Tyson took his conditioning seriously towards the latter portion of his dominant years. And maybe today's boxers are more built, but as far as stamina/conditioning is concerned, I don't think they would last as long as guys that trained for longer rounds were before them. Not to mention that Ali would make Tyson's tongue hang out.But also, Tyson had the power to end every fight in the blink of an eye, and Ali would definitely have to account for that, as he sometimes probably got a little full of himself. All it would take is a little slip up, or for Tyson to feint, and it's Good Night Irene. For whatever it's worth, nobody ever Good Night Irene-d Ali. He did get knocked down by a few great punchers, but he always got right back up. In a fight against Ken Norton, Ali fought for 7 rounds with a broken jaw. This is not to say that it couldn't happen in theory, but knocking out Ali was really hard to do. The only time it happened was a TKO to Larry Holmes when Ali was almost 40 years old. ---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 01:45 PM ---------- Its hard to get boxing heads to agree on anything, but its damn near unanimous that Sugar Ray Robinson is the best ever pound 4 pound. Yeah, the other Sugar Ray. ---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 01:47 PM ---------- End of story. Muhammed Ali was simply the best at avoiding or absorbing punishment. Great punchers like Ernie Shavers, Ron Lyle, and Bobby Foster used to complain that you just couldn't hit Ali clean. Everything was a partial miss. I'm not even sure Mike Tyson would have beaten a young Joe Frazier or George Forman. Buster Douglas did exactly what young Muhammed Ali would have done to Tyson 9 times out of 10. I think Tyson would have beaten Frazier. Foreman, probably not. The guy from that era who was made for beating Tyson (other than Ali) was probably Ken Norton, who gave Ali fits by fighting from the outside just like Ali did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I think he would have beaten Foreman easily. Foreman had terrible footwork. Norton was similar to Ali thus I thing Tyson would have beat him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 This is not to say that it couldn't happen in theory, but knocking out Ali was really hard to do. The only time it happened was a TKO to Larry Holmes when Ali was almost 40 years old. Also worth mentioning that the Holmes fight was stopped by either the ref or the corner. Ali never went down. Holmes stopped hitting him real hard out of respect and pity but he still didn't floor a very old Muhammad Ali, who should have never taken that fight at his age. Getting KOed was just not something Ali ever did. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 For whatever it's worth, nobody ever Good Night Irene-d Ali. He did get knocked down by a few great punchers, but he always got right back up. In a fight against Ken Norton, Ali fought for 7 rounds with a broken jaw. This is not to say that it couldn't happen in theory, but knocking out Ali was really hard to do. The only time it happened was a TKO to Larry Holmes when Ali was almost 40 years old. ---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 01:45 PM ---------- Yeah, the other Sugar Ray. All true, but although he faced some serious punchers, I don't know if he ever faced someone with the Thor-esque punch power (and humming velocity behind it) of Tyson. I also said that Ali would probably have to be caught off guard for it to happen, which isn't likely. Just saying though, I don't know if anyone could get up from a full on direct hit from that guy, and even if they did, they'd probably be so scrambled that it would only be a matter of seconds before Tyson rushed them and finished it off. Just thought I'd throw that in there since most of us are in agreement on who would win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan07 Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 Yeah he was the best. Serious business in the ring, and from what I understand a really good guy outside of the ring. Great guy out of the ring. Remember he killed that dude (Doyle)? Well apparently he had a dream a few days before that he would kill him in the ring, and called the fight off, but preachers told him to go on with the fight and guess what happened? He knocked Jimmy Doyle out and the guy never regained consciousnesses. After he found out about the kid who was apparently trying to buy his mom a new house, he went ahead and gave all his earnings from his next 3 fights to the dude's mom! Class act. Dude died broke b/c he helped out so many people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Okay well I dont remember it. I'm not that old, I can only go by my grandmothers account. haha. That is a wild story at the least. I know he died broke my grandmother went to the funeral. The stories she told were amazing and the proof to back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 How can anyone say Tyson? He WAS in his prime when he started losing, and losing consisitantly to boxers far inferior than Ali. ---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 10:32 PM ---------- Tyson's life and the people around him was nothing short of an unmitigated disaster by that time.The question in asked in the thread was about fighters in their prime....that was far from Tyson's prime. Tyson was in his Prime when he started losing. He only ever beat one decent and certainly not great fighter. Frankly I wouldn't rank Tyson even in the top 10 of heavyweights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 It would have been something to see Tyson rise to the level he could have in the era of the boxer, instead of the era of bull****. He was always above his competition, but his competition sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I'm too young to remember Tyson in his prime, but watching his older fights, it was just crazy. Just hearing him go to the body, it just sounded awful, like someone taking a chunk out of tree bark with an axe. I can't imagine how painful that was. His body shots were a thing of beauty...His head movement as well. You may have been able to keep him at bay on the outside, but if you got lazy and allowed him to dip his head classic Tyson style and slip a punch/get inside, you knew **** was about to get real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Tyson not in the top ten of heavyweights ? Now that just crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 In their primes Tyson. Out of their primes, Ali. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallsux Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Ali, hands down. Tyson was a brawler, Ali was a boxer. Ali went 15 rounds with some pretty hard hitters & could take a punch. Tyson never won a fight that went past the 6th round. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Tyson was like George, but quicker and not as tough. They could both hammer though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 In their primes Tyson. Out of their primes, Ali. During Ali's prime, he wasn't allowed to fight anyone. When he came back from his 4 year layoff, he was still a great fighter, but he had lost some of the quickness and edge that he once had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 That was possibly Ali's prime. Lest we forget how much drama Tyson had going on in his life when he started to decline. The OP (i believe) is about both in their prime. In their prime I think Tyson was better, After their prime...without question Ali is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Tyson not in the top ten of heavyweights ? Now that just crazy. I think he belongs near the bottom of the top 10, but its not that crazy to leave him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsiaticSkinsFan Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Ali, easily pre-Vietnam and post-Vietnam until 79. Ali had one of the greatest chins ever and took punches from guys with more power than Tyson (Shavers and Foreman) and didnt go down. He also had a lot of heart and drive. Mike Tyson is one of the most overrated boxers ever, and one of the most overrated athletes ever. ---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 07:48 PM ---------- the other thing is that Tyson is not good against tall fighters who dont allow him to bum rush them (ie they use their jab). Ali was a great jabber. ---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 07:51 PM ---------- Foreman was Tyson before Tyson and Ali beat him. I was a kid of the Tyson era too, but now I'm smart enough to know Tyson looked great against average fighters. As soon as he fought guys that could box and weren't afraid of him, he had trouble. Joe Frazier was actually more like Tyson. Foreman was not a technically good fighter and didnt defend. Frazier was stylistically like Tyson in the bum rush style and quick hands which lead to his power. Frazier wasnt as good as moving his head like Tyson. Tyson did not ever want to fight George Foreman because Cus told him not to fight Foreman when eh was alive. He showed him the Foreman/Frazier fight too. ---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 07:55 PM ---------- Ali would win hands down, in his prime. Pre-1964 I dont think Clay was hit once in the face. He had the movement of a middleweight and handspeed of a lightweight it was incredible. Clay's movement would frustrate young Tyson whose boxing technique was poor at best. Not to mention Clay would get in his head and have a young Tyson out of his mind mid-way through the first round (actually before the fight even began). Sonny Banks and Henry Cooper knocked him down pre 1964 actually ---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 07:58 PM ---------- but you're 21? /confused. lol Tyson fought guys with more reach than Ali. His defense is being severely underrated. its not about reach its about how good your jab is. Its why I dont believe Tyson would be the Klitchkos. you gotta understand, a lot of what Tyson did was down to a weak era and folks being afraid of him. Why the hell would Muhammad Ali be afraid of Mike Tyson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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