AsiaticSkinsFan Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Play song? sorry, HIS song. He has a song about him that he likes to play from time time according to that 30 for 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 sorry, HIS song. He has a song about him that he likes to play from time time according to that 30 for 30. Got me. He is just a nice guy though. I have a song I like to sing about me too. AC/DC wrote it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsiaticSkinsFan Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Got me. He is just a nice guy though.I have a song I like to sing about me too. AC/DC wrote it. someone else actually sings it, but he has started singing it now I like Larry Holmes, dude just comes across as a really nice guy. And he had one of the best moments in sports history :hysterical::rotflmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d0ublestr0ker0ll Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Well, good to see about 60% of the posters in this thread have some boxing knowledge, vice the 38-40% that seem to have only superficial to no boxing knowledge. I think that's short sighted and condescending. If it weren't an incredibly intriguing match-up, the question wouldn't be asked. Obviously, Ali has a much better resume, and the thing I like about him more than any fighter in any sport is that he constantly wanted to fight the best man possible. Win or lose, he put everything on the line to prove he was the absolute best fighter. But in combat sports, looking at W's and L's and the quality of opposition means jack squat. Sorry everyone, this is what we call "MMA Math" over there in that other sport. It's all about styles. That's it. Period. I don't care who fought who beforehand, when Tyson gets in there against Cascious Clay, none of that matters. The question is, how do they match up? Obviously, painfully even, young Clay would out-box Tyson if he could abvoid/absorb speed and power he's never seen before. Don't give me that Foreman BS. Foreman was a tall, massive, slapper. He overwhelmed opponents with a consistent barrage of lumbering fists. He didn't fight like Tyson, at all. The only stylistic similarity I see is that they both hurt people especially well when their punches landed. Besides, the Ali that fought Foreman was a totally different fighter than when he was in his prime. It's actually incredible the transition he went through. He switched from using elusive speed and technique, to having an unreal ability to absorb punishment. The thing that stands out to me the most is the difference in athlete between the 60s and 80s. The 80s saw a huge boost in the quality of athlete. From Bo Jackson and Barry Sanders to MJ and Carl Lewis. Athletes across the table had a different tone, a noticeably different energy than decades past. Mike was the figurehead of this movement to me. He was built like a fullback, neck the size of Clinton Portis' neck, the guy was a different animal than Joe Frazier and Sonny Liston, I am sorry again. Joe Frazier is one of my favorite combatants to ever watch, but when I watch film of young Mike, I see fists flying like I never saw before. It's of my opinion that Holyfield is lucky he didn't meet Tyson when he just became champion. Wouldn't be surprised in the least if young Tyson went back to 1967 and knocked Ali out early in a match. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised of any logical outcome in favor of either fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Watching youtube videos of a young Mike is fantastic and never gets old. He is also BY FAR my favorite sports personality on my lifetime. Mike Speaks, I'll listen. Pure gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Ali was definitely a better boxer than Tyson but I don't it would get to that point. Mike in his prime would be able to dodge and absorb just enough to get close, and then it would be a wrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney B Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Ali was definitely a better boxer than Tyson but I don't it would get to that point. Mike in his prime would be able to dodge and absorb just enough to get close, and then it would be a wrap. Again, this POV ignores the fact that no one ever came close to knocking out Ali, including people who hit harder than Tyson, so there's just no evidence to support it, nor any compelling argument in favor of it, unless you can somehow claim that Tyson would improve his power against Ali. Tyson's only realistic chance of beating the guy with the hardest head since George Chuvalo is by decision or TKO, and those possibilities seem remote - unless we're talking about the post-ban Ali, then it's at least plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAC Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Again, this POV ignores the fact that no one ever came close to knocking out Ali, including people who hit harder than Tyson, so there's just no evidence to support it, nor any compelling argument in favor of it, unless you can somehow claim that Tyson would improve his power against Ali. Henry Cooper came close enough. Also, Ali had a TKO loss as an amateur fighter. I'd likely still pick Ali in this match, but even a guy with a legendary chin can be rocked. And it's not necessarily the hardest puncher who does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Henry Cooper came close enough. Also, Ali had a TKO loss as an amateur fighter. Cooper came real close. Ali was in La-La Land for a round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney B Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Henry Cooper came close enough. Also, Ali had a TKO loss as an amateur fighter. OK, but that was before Ali reached his prime. In his prime, no one came close. If we're asking if a peak Tyson can beat an immature, 207 pound Ali, then the answer is probably yes. ... even a guy with a legendary chin can be rocked. And it's not necessarily the hardest puncher who does it. True, but that argument also supports Ali knocking Tyson out, and no one thinks Tyson's chin was equal to Ali's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Still can't believe people are arguing that Tyson would have a chance. How many decent boxers did Tyson actually beat? I think the consensus is just one, he lost to every other good boxer he fought. And people are arguing that he would have a chance against oneof the top three, (if not best) heavy weight boxers ever?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 The point was made about in their primes. In his prime Tyson was indestructable until his personal life fell apart. That was the basis of the thread. Each in their respective primes. To think Tyson had no shot is equally as unbelievable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsiaticSkinsFan Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Like I said earlier about Leon Spinks in '78, was Tyson's prime actually in 1987-88? What athletes have their prime at 19-21? Especially boxers. You can make an argument we never saw the best of Tyson, and that was largely his fault. But Tyson was not indestructible, not even close. Beating Mitch "Blood" Green-types doesnt make you indestructible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 But throwing out great names of boxers that Ali fought...when all but Foreman were pretty much past their prime...ehh. And yes, some do have their prime that early. Many athletes are in their prime at that age...some past it. Most however it is a bit later. Mid-Late 20's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsiaticSkinsFan Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Ken Norton and Joe Frazier were past their primes? Sonny Liston was past his prime? Floyd Patterson was past his prime? Tyson never beat anyone as good as Earnie Shavers or Ron Lyle (who were both in their primes at that point), and you want to question Ali's resume? And I have never heard of a boxer reaching their prime at 19-21, it doesnt happen because you are still physically superior but can mentally learn a lot of things. Tyson was a very exciting fighter, and he came up at a time where a lot of athletes started to get overrated historically, imo (isnt it funny to anyone else that the late 80s/early 90s athletes are seen as mythical and irreproachable figures in sports? the NBA, boxing, NFL, to an extent the NHL and Tennis. My theory is this is when ESPN and cable hit their prime and advertising dollars came into the fold in a major way and it propped up guys legacies. Tyson was a beneficiary of that, imo but its just my theory). I get that Tyson's style was exciting, but he beat no one of note except for Michael Spinks, Tony Tucker, and maybe Razor Ruddock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSkinsFan92 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I think Ali would win. However I think Tyson would have a very good chance. He was untouchable until he got involved with Don King and lost his trainer Cus D'Amato. After That is when he went down hill, the partying, the technique got sloppy and all he did was try to power his way through fights; his defense declined terribly. But both in their prime would be a amazing fight too bad it couldn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I think Ali would win. However I think Tyson would have a very good chance. He was untouchable until he got involved with Don King and lost his trainer Cus D'Amato. After That is when he went down hill, the partying, the technique got sloppy and all he did was try to power his way through fights; his defense declined terribly. But both in their prime would be a amazing fight too bad it couldn't happen. How can anyone prove they are untouchable though beating subpar competition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSkinsFan92 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 How can anyone prove they are untouchable though beating subpar competition? Well i dunno....lol. I think its the same way people argue Floyd Mayweather. Half the people think he is the best thing ever while the other half says he hasn't fought anyone. Tyson couldn't really help that the competition was lax and by the time he fought anyone decent (Evander) he had gone off the deep end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stugein Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Reading the thread might give you some insight into why the poll results are the way they are (and why the results mirror the overwhelming views of the boxing historians). You're assuming I didn't read the thread because I'm surprised that the poll so heavily favors Ali? I don't see how you got that. I read the thread. I'm still surprised at the poll results. And I still disagree with them. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. We'll never know. But at least I won't try to be presumptive and put someone down in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsiaticSkinsFan Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Well i dunno....lol. I think its the same way people argue Floyd Mayweather. Half the people think he is the best thing ever while the other half says he hasn't fought anyone. Tyson couldn't really help that the competition was lax and by the time he fought anyone decent (Evander) he had gone off the deep end. a) the people who say that are not real boxing fans comparing Mayweather to Tyson is absurd on so many different levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 You're assuming I didn't read the thread because I'm surprised that the poll so heavily favors Ali? I don't see how you got that. I read the thread. I'm still surprised at the poll results. And I still disagree with them. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. We'll never know. But at least I won't try to be presumptive and put someone down in the process. I was just your comment. It kind of looked like you hadn't read the thread at all. My mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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