Ali vs. Tyson: Who Would Win?

[Sticksboi05]

Tyson fought Larry Holmes too, and beat him.

Tyson beat a near 40 year old Holmes, hardly an equal comparison to Ali losing well well past his prime in 1980 to a 30 year old Holmes in a decision. Literally 15 years past his prime. There is no argument that Tyson had equal competition to Ali during his era if that's what you're getting at.

[JMS]

No doubt Ali fought some great fighters, but 26-17 Leon Spinks wasn't one of them. Dude was famous for his gap and beating a washed up Ali.

The only problem with your analysis is after Spinks defeated Ali, Ali came back eight months later and defeated Spinks, and that was the last time they fought.

I disagree. Leon Spinks was a great amateur fighter who as a 20 year old placed third in the World Amateur Boxing Championships, and at 22 won gold in the Olympics.

He was an impressive amateur, and that allowed him to move up the ranks of the professional boxing contenders quickly after only 7 professional fights. Going 7-0-1. 5 by knock outs.

He was a different fighter after Ali beat him in their second fight. Then when Larry Holmes beat him he really fell apart. But if we are talking about fighters in their prime, I'd take Leon Spinks over Lenox Lewis any day.

[DM72]

The only problem with your analysis is after Spinks defeated Ali, Ali came back eight months later and defeated Spinks, and that was the last time they fought.

I disagree. Leon Spinks was a great amateur fighter who as a 20 year old placed third in the World Amateur Boxing Championships, and at 22 won gold in the Olympics.

He was an impressive amateur, and that allowed him to move up the ranks of the professional boxing contenders quickly after only 7 professional fights. Going 7-0-1. 5 by knock outs.

He was a different fighter after Ali beat him in their second fight. Then when Larry Holmes beat him he really fell apart. But if we are talking about fighters in their prime, I'd take Leon Spinks over Lenox Lewis any day.

I could care less if he was a great amature. We're talking about his pro career. Anyway you analize it, he was 26-17. That's a horrible record for a boxer. And then you point out that he got beat by an over the hill Ali.

Dude would get destroyed by Lennox Lewis. Possibly a first round KO.

[Kosher Ham]

I have to agree with you on that one DM72. I think Michael Spinks was a better pro. Leon sucked. He beat Ali...Ali was a shell of himself.

I remember that fight on wide world of sports and sitting there with the family wondering how this guy beat the greatest. Same as watching the Buster Douglas/Tyson fight.

[JMS]

Always remember tho, styles make fights not names.

I disagree entirely. What makes great fighters is competition. A great fighter is a guy who beats great competition. What makes Ali the greatest fighter of all time was the fact that he faced the greatest completion of all time. Not that he defeated that competition always, Ali lost too. But what Ali did when he lost is what defined him. He fought those guys again often twice more and beat them convincingly in these later bouts....

Let's take Ali's greatest Opponents in two sets.. First those he lost too and came back to beat convincingly.

• Joe Frazier-----------26-0 when he defeated Ali in 1971, finished his career 32-4-1 with two losses to Ali
  
• Ken Norton-----------30-1 when he defeated Ali in 1973. finished his career 42-7-1 with two losses to Ali
  
• Leon Spinks---------6-0-1 (5 by KO) when he defeated Ali in 1978 , Ali came back and defeated Spinks latter that year..
  

Second those he never lost too.

• Archie Moore--------184-23-10 when Ali defeated him in 1962, finished Career 185-24-10 (131 by KO)
  
• Floyd Paterson-----42–5 when he fought and lost to Ali as a 20 yo, finished his career 55-8-1 with 2 losses to Ali.
  
• Sonny Liston--------31-1 when Ali defeated him in 1964 finished his career 50–4, with two losses to Ali
  
• George Forman-----40-0 when he fought and was defeated by Ali. Finished his career 76–5, 1 loss to Ali.
  

[Kosher Ham]

Why even bring up Moore ? He was done at the point he fought Ali.

Smoking Joe is the best example of a great fighter in his prime.

Norton is overrated.

Foreman couldn't move out of his own way...as good as he was he only beat bums his entire career.

[edgun88]

Anyone who watched Tyson would know that Tyson would win. Its not even a competition.

[DM72]

Why even bring up Moore ? He was done at the point he fought Ali.

Smoking Joe is the best example of a great fighter in his prime.

Norton is overrated.

Foreman couldn't move out of his own way...as good as he was he only beat bums his entire career.

I agree with everything you said except, Foreman did beat Frazier.

[skinsfan07]

Anyone who watched Tyson would know that Tyson would win. Its not even a competition.

Hey, I picked Kid Dynamite too, but against Ali? I wouldn't say "it's not even a compettion." Bold statement.

[JMS]

I could care less if he was a great amature. We're talking about his pro career. Anyway you analize it, he was 26-17. That's a horrible record for a boxer. And then you point out that he got beat by an over the hill Ali.

Dude would get destroyed by Lennox Lewis. Possibly a first round KO.

I am not saying Leon Spinks had a relatively Great Pro Career compared to the people we are discussing. I'm saying he was one of the most exciting and closely followed young fighters of his time. He won the Olympics and he was heavy weight champion of the world. He was 7-0-1 with 5KO's when he faced Ali as an underdog. And remember He won a decision in that fight. He won a decision against Mohamed Ali.

My point isn't that he had a great career. My point is in his prime, he was a great fighter, his prime was just pretty short. It basically ended after Ali defeated him in 78, spinks self destructed. His career record sucked cause he kept fighting when his heart wasn't in it. He set out to win the heavy weight belt, did, and when he lost it he was done.

Where Leon was an under achiever, Michael Spinks was an over achiever.. In their prime there is no contest between Leon who was bigger, stronger, and just as quick and Michael who relied on his boxing skills and really didn't have knock out power as a heavy weight.

Michael had five heavy weight fights, didn't knock out anybody. His career as a heavy weight was 4-1-0 with 2 TKO's and 2 decisions before Tyson knocked him out in the first round.

Michael was a very good boxer as a light heavy, who never really made the transition to heavy division. Leon was a more natural heavy weight who scared the snot out of folks in his prime.

[Predicto]

Anyone who watched Tyson would know that Tyson would win. Its not even a competition.

I watched Tyson, and this is a silly thing to say.

[Kosher Ham]

Point still stands that Lewis would have beat the snot out of Leon...and I never liked Lewis, but he was a damn good fighter or Holyfield because he ducked Tyson in his prime.

[JMS]

Why even bring up Moore ? He was done at the point he fought Ali.

Ali was an underdog in that fight... True Moore was old, but Ali was young 20 years old and well before his prime.

Norton is overrated.

Over rated, except he defeated Ali in his prime, and broke his jaw too..

Norton was 42-7-1 in his career with 2 losses to Ali, 1 loss to Forman, and 1 loss to Holmes... Those are some pretty good fighters.

Foreman couldn't move out of his own way...as good as he was he only beat bums his entire career.

I disagree. I think George Foreman might have been the best fighter of his era, even better than Ali. When he fought Ali he was 40-0 with 38 KO's.

That's impressive as hell.

As for only fought bums, He fought Frasier twice in his prime and beat him and you said smoking joe was a quality guy? Fought Norton and beat him too. He only lost to Ali in the Rumble in the Jungle and their is some controversy about his water bottle being tampered with in that fight.

He sat out for 10 years after Ali defeated him in the jungle... when he came back he was still a scary dude, going 22-0 in his comeback after an unprecedented 10 year absence before holifield stopped him.

I disagree, I think Foreman was awesome who could have been the greatest boxer in history if not for two things...

1. Accepting a questionable venue in the Congo with Don King in charge when he fought Ali.
   
2. Retiring after loosing to Ali in the Rumble in the Jungle, in 1974.
   

---------- Post added September-26th-2012 at 12:52 PM ----------

Point still stands that Lewis would have beat the snot out of Leon...and I never liked Lewis, but he was a damn good fighter or Holyfield because he ducked Tyson in his prime.

Lewis was a big guy with a big punch. He wasn't a boxer. Leon was a big guy, with a big punch, who could box. In their primes there would be no contest. Leon would have taken him apart. Leon because of what happenned to him late in his career, and because of the shortness of his career is under rated. In his prime, Leon was a very dangerous man.

[DM72]

Point still stands that Lewis would have beat the snot out of Leon...and I never liked Lewis, but he was a damn good fighter or Holyfield because he ducked Tyson in his prime.

Wait a minute. Holyfield was still a cruiserweight in Tyson's prime (85-89). I don't know if you remember this, but Holyfield was to fight Tyson after Tyson fought Buster Douglas, but he loss and Holyfield fought Douglas instead. Then Tyson went away for rape.

It wasn't Holyfield's fault they didn't fight in Tyson's prime.

[JMS]

I agree with everything you said except, Foreman did beat Frazier.

Twice.

[Sticksboi05]

Anyone who watched Tyson would know that Tyson would win. Its not even a competition.

Tyson beating up on average to mediocre boxers = he'd win no contest?

Doesn't make sense to me.

[Sticksboi05]

Why even bring up Moore ? He was done at the point he fought Ali.

Smoking Joe is the best example of a great fighter in his prime.

Norton is overrated.

Foreman couldn't move out of his own way...as good as he was he only beat bums his entire career.

Except when he beat Joe Frazier twice.

[Kosher Ham]

DM, I remember, but at the time Evander was supposed to fight him a year or so earlier.

[JMS]

Wait a minute. Holyfield was still a cruiserweight in Tyson's prime (85-89). I don't know if you remember this, but Holyfield was to fight Tyson after Tyson fought Buster Douglas, but he loss and Holyfield fought Douglas instead. Then Tyson went away for rape.

It wasn't Holyfield's fault they didn't fight in Tyson's prime.

I think of Holyfield as a guy with a big heart, who was a very good boxer, but was out of his depth as a heavy weight. He just wasn't big enough, if not for steroids he couldn't have competed in the heavy division.

As for Tyson and Holyfield, Remember Tyson also fought Holyfield in the Olympics trial.. I think Tyson was only like 14, and an older Holyfield beat him to get into the Olympics.

Tyson was a freakish talent. He was short, compact and had a murderous punch. The knock on him compared to Ali was several bullet items.

• Tyson really didn't have much of a prime. He started his professional career at 21 and was 37-0 when he met Buster Douglas which was the turning point in his career (for the worse). But he was only 26 years. That's when his prime should have started, but he was pretty much done.
  
• It's very very difficult to call Tyson a boxer. While that is usually a negative, in Tyson's case it's actually a complement. In Tyson's early career nobody could stay in the ring with him. Only one of his first 37 fights went the distance and that's only because his trainer told him not to knock the guy out, they were worried he was winning so quickly he wasn't getting any experience. They were right. Tyson was a freakish athlete, but really had nothing else. I think he won more than 30 of his first 37 fights in the first round.
  
• When it came time to actually box people because for whatever reason he wasn't able to knock people out 10 seconds into the first round any longer, he frankly just never had the boxing skills to compete with guys like Holyfield who were proficient boxers, but had never enjoyed the early success that Tyson did.
  

Against Ali, who was perhaps the ultimate ring tactician, I don't see how Tyson would have won. Sure if Tyson would have knocked him out in the first 10 seconds like he did so many bums.. But remember Ali went up against some great punchers too, and never went out like that. No it would have gone into the late rounds, and Ali would have out thought him... Like everybody who went late rounds with Tyson was able to do.

Frusterate him, out think him, out box him..

Tyson's problem was chiefly related to the fact that when Cus D'amato died, Tyson had nobody around him he trusted. So he basically stopped developing as a fighter before he ever arrived at his potential. Then he had Robin's Givens kick the snot out of him, Then he was unprepared and overconfident to face Buster Douglas on Buster's best day of his life, then he went to jail. After that Don King took over and it was all she wrote.

[DM72]

How can anyone say Holyfield was out if his depth as a heavyweight? Those 3 fights with Bowe should be enough to prove otherwise. He beat George Foreman. And George Foreman was still feared at the time. And he beat Tyson when Tyson was still one of the best.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

This is false. Tyson was much more than a mere brawler. He had it all all. Great speed, great defense, footwork etc.

I'm not sure he did.

Tyson was a force of nature with unbelievable power. And before his prison stint, he had awesome head movement. But that was pretty much the extent of his skills. Incredible power, balance, and head movement. With the fighters he faced, that was more than enough.

After prison, he lost the head movement and became a pretty easy target. He also became a pretty incredible bleeder by the end because of this. I would say this started happening before prison though. Buster Douglas could do only one thing in the ring - jab. And Tyson made it really really easy for him in Tokyo.

The only Tyson that could beat Ali would be very young Tyson and only if he caught Ali off-guard early on.

But Tyson fought some hellacious punchers and rarely got in trouble. Sonny Liston and George Foreman could easily match Tyson's power and Ali handled them.

The key with Tyson was always surviving the early rounds with him.

---------- Post added September-26th-2012 at 01:56 PM ----------

I have to go with Tyson by early knockout. There has never been a fighter as scary as Mike Tyson in his prime.

Did you ever see Foreman-Frazier?

George Foreman in his prime was Mike Tyson if Mike Tyson was a superheavyweight.

[Dan T.]

Anyone who watched Tyson would know that Tyson would win. Its not even a competition.

I get the same vibe with this post as I do with Yahoo comments that Justin Bieber is way better than the Beatles.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think Tyson would have beaten Frazier. Foreman, probably not. The guy from that era who was made for beating Tyson (other than Ali) was probably Ken Norton, who gave Ali fits by fighting from the outside just like Ali did.

Frazier would have been a pretty easy target for Tyson. No one ever had a problem hitting Smokin' Joe. And being a target for Tyson was a bad bad move. Ali never had a problem hitting Joe, but he did have a problem hurting until very late in fights. Foreman, of course, nearly murdered Frazier.

Norton was a lot like Lennox Lewis - a big guy who did not really like to mix it up. That's why I think the fighter over the last 20 years who would have given Ali the most trouble is Lewis. Ali liked to frustrate boxers into mistakes. Lewis - rarely - made mistakes. I don't think Lewis was as willing as Ali to suffer in the ring though.

---------- Post added September-26th-2012 at 02:13 PM ----------

Foreman of course, relied solely on his raw punching power, his technique was sloppy but hey whatever works right?

Young Foreman actually had pretty fantastic mechanics. His footwork was remarkable and he was probably the best ever at cutting off the ring among big fighters. Ali went to the Rope a Dope in Zaire because he figured out quickly that he was not going to be able to run away from Foreman.

People like to think of Foreman as Frankenstein (because that's what Ali called him), but he was pretty athletic.

[Sticksboi05]

Frazier would have been a pretty easy target for Tyson. No one ever had a problem hitting Smokin' Joe. And being a target for Tyson was a bad bad move. Ali never had a problem hitting Joe' date=' but he did have a problem hurting until very late in fights. Foreman, of course, nearly murdered Frazier.

Norton was a lot like Lennox Lewis - a big guy who did not really like to mix it up. That's why I think the fighter over the last 20 years who would have given Ali the most trouble is Lewis. Ali liked to frustrate boxers into mistakes. Lewis - rarely - made mistakes. I don't think Lewis was as willing as Ali to suffer in the ring though.

---------- Post added September-26th-2012 at 02:13 PM ----------

Young Foreman actually had pretty fantastic mechanics. His footwork was remarkable and he was probably the best ever at cutting off the ring among big fighters. Ali went to the Rope a Dope in Zaire because he figured out quickly that he was not going to be able to run away from Foreman.

People like to think of Foreman as Frankenstein (because that's what Ali called him), but he was pretty athletic.

Did not know that. Froem all I've read his power was what made him so dominant. Going to have go to and watch the Rumble once again!

When We Were Kings, the documentary is absolutely phenomenal. You seen it? I'm assuming yes since you've seen about everything.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

When We Were Kings, the documentary is absolutely phenomenal. You seen it? I'm assuming yes since you've seen about everything.

Yea. That's a fantastic movie.

And Norman Mailer goes into great detail about Foreman's foot work in it.

Young Foreman's problem was that - like Tyson - he was a bully at heart. If everything was going well for him in the ring, he was capable of murder. Neither he nor Tyson dealt with adversity very well. Foreman's weakness was basically his mental state. There is really only fight in his "first" career where he got himself out of trouble.