Vilandil Tasardur Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I think this is a fabulous question; I've tangled with it myself a great many times. My answer (which isn't very satisfying) is that there are moral issues in which the answer must be yes, but in most financial and/or economic cases the answer would be no. This is a strange and complex answer, but I'll try to explain. This country is built on certain moral pillars, such as freedom of religion. Our earliest settlers came here fleeing religious persecution and imagined up a state in which all were free to practice. I DO believe that it is the Christian majority's responsibility to stand aside and accept the diversity that makes our nation so unique in the world. Economically however, I do NOT believe it is the majority's responsibility to make it easier for the minorities. There have traditionally been fewer female CEOs than men, but the majority bears no responsibility to the minority beyond giving them a fighting chance. No woman wants to be CEO just because of some numbers game that needed to strike a balance or make it fair; they want to be CEO because of their hard work and merits. The majority has a responsibility to ensure that merits and hard work are fairly judged when making that decision, but nothing beyond that. The same can be said for racial minorities and such. I do not believe that big business has a responsibility to promote the growth of mom and pop businesses. In fact, there's a lot of things about small business that I hate, though it's a topic for another thread. I hope my answer makes sense; I fear that it's a convoluted disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Geez Jumbo, the post office was just up the road. I am here. EDIT: Were you talking about yourself there...haha. I feel like people should not have to defer or cater to other people. I respect other people until they give me reason not to. People are free to voice their opinions and I am free to respond. My greater point is regardless of race, religion, sex, orientation, physical or mental challenges, etc. Treat people as you want to be treated. When people ask me where I am from, I say the United States, they ask where my family is from, I say the United States, they the ask...you know what I mean...I say does it matter ?. Work for it and earn it. I don't care who it is. Lazy people annoy me. No free rides, no handouts, none of that crap. Helping someone in need that can't help themselves is different to me (Think kids and elderly, NOT junkies, drunks, and these folks with children they don't deserve or can't afford). ---------- Post added July-2nd-2012 at 02:50 PM ---------- Are you seriously offended by that statement ? Come on... His statement is what prejudice is. What stereotypes are. There is some truth to it. You can't even be offended by it, just fix it. Yes, I think calling an entire state and it's people dumb is over the line. But it's always acceptable here to disparage southernors, conservatives, christians etc. How fast would a post about how inner city people are all drug using criminals last? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 I hope my answer makes sense; I fear that it's a convoluted disaster. I don't think it is at all. I think you spoke to exactly what I was getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I constantly amazed at the amount of disparaging and hateful remarks the mods allow people to make on this site. Oh give me a break, you sideshow bob (still luv ya). We can't win no matter what. There's always someone who will piss and moan one way or the other. We're way too lenient and we're way too repressive <eyeroll>. You got 5 guys here volunteering, some for many hours, all with careers and very active lives, and having to do a while mess of board management, including dealing with and reading all you Internet Warriors with all your nonsense in PMs, posts, and e-mails. So stfu, or go start your own site, or just leave. I work hard to try to help keep most folks around mod-wise, but I often consider that a character defect on my part. Time has sure proven that very few people here really represent a true loss when they leave, and there's always someone else coming down the road (I really hope you don't leave, btw--see? Character defect.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 But it's always acceptable here to disparage southernors, conservatives, christians etc.How fast would a post about how inner city people are all drug using criminals last? Honestly, I think that sentiment plays right into the thread topic. One of the things that I've noticed is that it DOES seem more socially acceptable to disparage majority groups. Is that one of the concessions thatshould be made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Honestly, I think that sentiment plays right into the thread topic. One of the things that I've noticed is that it DOES seem more socially acceptable to disparage majority groups. Is that one of the concessions thatshould be made? Floridians aren't a majority group. Thank God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 But it's always acceptable here to disparage southernors, conservatives, christians etc. Well, I wasted my last post. You're the one who actually could (but won't) get the one-month boot this time. It's acceptable to say an awful lot about anything if it's within the rules and depending on context or other matters (like posting history). What's not acceptable is your assertion. It really is a rule violation as worded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Honestly, I think that sentiment plays right into the thread topic. One of the things that I've noticed is that it DOES seem more socially acceptable to disparage majority groups. Is that one of the concessions thatshould be made? Perception is reality. The easiest group to disparage, by far, are Muslims. Look at how much Sarge got away with for 8 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Yes, I think calling an entire state and it's people dumb is over the line. My heart goes out to our WV brothers here. If that got under you're skin not sure you could take it if you were from West by god VA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Perception is reality.The easiest group to disparage, by far, are Muslims. Look at how much Sarge got away with for 8 years Weird you'd say that just now. I was thinking how often I use this forum in some of the teaching I do to demonstrate the differences between perceptions and facts on a matter---using what posters say on actual board dynamics and then, without ever using even screen names, showing data/evidence that reflects how distorted or limited <"one-sided"; bias confirmation bias; self-serving; identity/ego-reinforcing> the perception is. Yes, various whiners of repression have little memory for how much slack they and their ilk have been cut, but are hyper-aware of any they feel is given to their opposition. Humans (particularly male egos/self-identity) can be such fragile little fuzzies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Jumbo done be learnin people by using the board!!! Hope our disfunction helps them to understand the world in some small way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Weird you'd say that just now---I was thinking how often I use this forum in some of the teaching I do to demonstrate the differences between perceptions and facts on a matter (using what posters say on actual board dynamics and then, without ever using even screen names, showing data/evidence that reflects how distorted or limited <"one-sided"; bias confirmation bias; self-serving; identity/ego-reinforcing> the perception is.Egocentrism and confirmation bias are really at the heart of this. The majority feels that they are forced to cater to minorities, while minorities feel they are trampled on by majorities. Feelings differ depending on which group you are in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Perception is reality.The easiest group to disparage, by far, are Muslims. Look at how much Sarge got away with for 8 years Yeah, you're right. I was speaking in more general terms though; or at least attempting to. Generally, it's more acceptable to insult whites than minorities, Christians than non-Christians (your point about Islam excepted), fat people than skinny, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 In Gov't class the complete idea about democracy that we were taught was: Majority rules, with respect to the rights of the minority. The idea being that the majority does not to get to run roughshod over the minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Floridians aren't a majority group. Thank God Hell, Floridians aren't a majority IN Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Yeah, you're right.I was speaking in more general terms though; or at least attempting to. Generally, it's more acceptable to insult whites than minorities, Christians than non-Christians (your point about Islam excepted), fat people than skinny, etc. Fat people are the majority?...maybe by weight but not by population ... sorry too easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Yes, I think calling an entire state and it's people dumb is over the line. But it's always acceptable here to disparage southernors, conservatives, christians etc. How fast would a post about how inner city people are all drug using criminals last? The fact is more suburbians use drugs. Let's start there...why because they can afford it. His statement is debatable but not without a least some merit. It's not an absurd statement, just in poor taste. We hear far too many stories about the mishaps in Florida including election results. The frequency of these stories creates prejudice. I have said for many years on this board prejudice will never end. Racism, sexism, and the rest can. Prejudice is a simple concept. Why do we call a neighborhood a bad or good neighborhood ? And HH, Being Christian is not a reason to disrespect people minding their own business in that other situation. If someone came to my family 4th cookout and made remarks for no good reason to incite people it's pretty much asking for it. The religion pushers are often the worst. Not to call him out, but that is one of the reasons that Pastor ASF fits in this online community so well. He will respond and react as he should to explain and protect, but he never tries to talk trash about what someone else believes. That's respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Fat people are the majority?...maybe by weight but not by population ... sorry too easy Feb. 10' date=' 2010 -- More Americans are becoming overweight or obese, exercising less, and eating unhealthy foods.That’s the finding of the latest Gallup-Healthways Well-Being Index, which shows that 63.1% of adults in the U.S. were either overweight or obese in 2009.[/quote'] http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20100210/percentage-of-overweight-obese-americans-swells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20100210/percentage-of-overweight-obese-americans-swellsI stand corrected.But I don't think that being in the majority has anything to do with the fact that it's acceptable to make fun of fat people. People have been making fun of fat people since long before American fast food: Sheriff. First, pardon me, my lord. A hue and cry Hath follow'd certain men unto this house. Henry V. What men? Sheriff. One of them is well known, my gracious lord, A gross fat man. Carrier. As fat as butter. http://www.opensourceshakespeare.org/views/plays/play_view.php?WorkID=henry4p1&Act=2&Scene=4&Scope=scene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 What Would Jesus Do? It's an apt response to the OP. If you have done this for the least of these, you have done it for me. I'm not religious although I was raised as a Methodist, that's how I know the Sermon on the Mount and what Jesus taught. If you take those teaching to heart as a guide for living one's life, regardless of one's religious status, then you would know the answers to the questions in the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Pressure Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Socially, both groups have an obligation if a society is to function. The obligation of the majority is to fulfill their needs while keeping the needs of the minority as an important consideration. The obligation of the minority is to push for their needs to be fulfilled while understanding the needs of the majority. When it goes past needs however to wants, goals, desires, etc. it gets messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 LadyskinsFan, That's what I was taught too. I am often surprised how rarely and for how few it comes to mind first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 No, the majority should not be responsible to make it easier on the minority simply because they're in the minority.And conversely they should also not be responsible for making things harder on the minority simply because they're in the minority. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people who say they believe the first part absolutely do not believe in the second part. But, it all depends on what th situation is. the obvious examples being race and sex, or sexuality.. the people in these minorities should not be impeded in any way by their minority status, nor should they be given help up unless there are those who do not treat them fairly, and unfortunately, there's still plenty of them. (Within common sense, the great arbiter we never use. A man should realize the business model of Hooters is not so he can be a server. I don't see that as discrimination.) But in the other use of minority i'm seeing used recently, that of a political minority... in this country majority does rule. And the minority needs to recognize that, and realize it is the basis of our entire system. The minority does not decide for the majority. Otherwise it becomes mob rule. ~Bang This is pretty much where I stand. Most of the time, neutrality is the best path toward progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Happy Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 In some cases, constitutionally, we're supposed to. 1st Amendment rights grant freedom of religion, so we're supposed to let people practice their beliefs in peace, especially if they aren't physically interfering with the law of the land. I never liked affirmative action from the perspective of it being a "fill a quota system". You can argue that it was probably more necessary when it started then it is today. Each minority group is going through different situations right now, but its in our best interests as a nation and 21st century economy that they're all successful, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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