KDawg Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I post a heck of a lot less during the offseason, and yes, I realize this technically fits within other threads, but bear with me for a second. There's a lot of mixed info in those other threads now, and this isn't specific to RG3 (or Luck) but rather to address the concern of "what we gave up" to get one of those guys. Three first rounders and a second rounder. That's really two firsts and a second because we upgraded with one of those first rounders. So we have ENTIRE drafts in tact, aside from first rounders in 2013 and 2014. Our scouting department has done an absolutely fantastic job in finding guys who fit the Shanahan mold and fit what the Redskins are trying to do offensively and defensively. The guys are pros. I have no doubt that Mike Shanahan and Bruce Allen believe in those guys tenfold. It's one of the reasons making this sort of deal doesn't cripple the franchise. Also keep in mind, that there are ways to recoup draft choices (maybe not a first, but we can others to acquire large amounts of talent to bring in, if deemed necessary from Shanahan/Allen). What were we doing with our first rounders anyways? Now, under Shanahan/Allen it's been a bit different, I said so above and I meant it. But, let's think about some of the people we've drafted in the first round in the last ten years that didn't work out. Guys like LaRon Landry, who likely won't be back in a Redskin uniform. Carlos Rogers, Jason Campbell, Patrick Ramsey, Rod Gardner. Granted, our last three drafts have been filled with excellent draft choices: Rak, Williams and Kerrigan. I can't argue that and won't. But my point isn't necessarily that our current regime wouldn't find a solid player, but that we've been through tons of first rounders in the last ten years alone that didn't pan out. Giving up two players (sorry, three, including the 2nd this year) is not the end of the world. We have a pretty solid foundation in place on this roster at this point: Helu, Royster, Davis, RG3/Luck, Williams, Rak, Kerrigan, Riley, Wilson, Hank, Jenkins, Paul, Hurt, and I'm sure I left some guys out. Free agency will need to come into play, and we can't overreach for aging guys yet, we need young(ish) guys that fit the Shanahan mold. But we can build our roster to be formidable even without the first rounders. And we can still build a fairly young roster to build on. Quarterback is the position that makes things go in the NFL. I believe that QB and OL/DL fuel teams successes or failures. With the addition of Luck/RG3, 2/3 of that equation are taken care of. A few tweaks in free agency to the OL and we can have 3/3, and then all we're going to need is time to gel, time to fill in the blanks with our remaining draft choices and free agency (SMART free agency moves, not stupid, splash moves). I can't argue that we gave up a lot. We certainly did. And I understand why some are apprehensive. What if RG3/Luck bust out of the league? We gave up a lot for nothing. But it was time this franchise grew some balls and took a risk. And for that, whether Shanahan and Allen are successful or not, I thank them. We broke the trend of being safe and toiling in mediocrity. We've averaged 6.8 wins per season since 1992. We can stay in mediocrity and not take a chance on finding a true franchise QB and continue to win 6.8 games per year, or we can take a risk. Take a chance. Climb out of purgatory. I don't know about you, but we've proven we can stink without a quarterback, I think it's about time to prove we can flourish with one. We haven't had a homegrown franchise quarterback since the 1930's in Sammy Baugh. Hell, I don't even know if Theismann, Williams or Ryp can even count for being "franchise" quarterbacks due to how short a time they were here. I'd say Theismann was close as hell, though. Now we have an opportunity to get our own Cam Newton. Matt Stafford. Matt Ryan. I for one, am excited. And legit excited. Not just "wooo! we made a big splash" excited. But legit "we have a chance" excited. I understand concerns and pessimism. It's been bad here over the last 20 years. But take solace in the fact that we will no longer encounter the status quo as 'Skins fans. Buckle up, it's going to be a bumpy ride, but one that I'm so freakin' happy that we're on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Ruckus Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Great post. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostaskins Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Still got get him weapons and protections. Also help out the d as well. Go after nicks guard from the saints, carr from chiefs and pick up coltson from the saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Great read and very true. I'm ecstatic!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silencer6091 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Well said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Levi Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 For me, it's like this: Whether or not this team is any good in two or three years depends on two things: 1. RG3 working out. But come on he's awesome as ****, of course he'll work out And, the big one 2. Whether or not we whiff on FA. If the Skins choose wisely in FA, we can contend next year. And we don't have a great record in FA...though the last couple years we do. So who the hell knows. Fact is, if it doesn't work out, we are screwed for years. But we've already been screwed for years, so the risk ain't all that high. One thing's for sure, we've won the offseason again for the first time since 2010. And that's something we can all be proud of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I posted right after the announcement that we still have the bulk of our drafts after the 3 high picks are gone and we have a great opportunity to meet several key needs in FA this year. It is an unusual year for having a lot of cap space and a huge and talented FA class. The FO had all this much in mind when giving what they gave. For what the targeted player is intended to be, and rigthfully projected to be (never a sure thing but c'mon), it was a great deal for the Rams and a valid (I say very smart) move for us, and necessary to beat out stiff competition. Two SB coaches wanted this guy very badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskindan07 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Hopefully we will use FA to replace the traded picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible_Red40 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Boom, KDawg with the dynamite!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThrobZilla Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Good post. The best part about Griffin is that yes, he cost a lot of draft picks but he should be a franchise QB at a fairly discounted price for the next 4 years. Hopefully that will allow us to fill the holes via free agency. I think Shannahan has done a pretty good job thus far of not paying out the nose for quality guys to fill holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Yep - glad somebody consolidated how a lot of us feel. On the "bust out of the league" thing - Shanahan will not allow that to happen. They're going to put RG in the best position to succeed - whether that means, bringing him along slowly (minimize the learning curve, limited playbook to start, delay starting the season) or whatever. The only bombing out he'll be doing is that deep throw to VJax. :pfft: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Honestly, I agree. Logically, I think I preferred splashing cash at Manning, and drafting Tannehill. But, emotionally, this is really the only possible move. This team is moribund. It is lifeless, mostly bad, and when good, only spotty being good. Our good has typically corresponded to good QB play. Every year, the quarterbacks at the top of the draft grabbed by any team, give that team hope they have the next guy. It doesn't always, or even OFTEN work out that way. Assuming Manning is Manning, only ONE of the game's Top 3 QBs is a top pick. Rivers is the next best for a top pick and he's plenty good. A legitimately QB makes a team competitive for years. A great one makes them good for years. An elite one, like Manning, is the difference between playoff team and 2-14. Say what you want, but, to me, Peyton Manning proved CLEARLY to be THE most valuable player in sports HISTORY last year by not playing. The NFL is a QB league. We have NOT had a QB we KNEW could be that guy for years IN decades. We still don't know it, assuming this trade ACTUALLY goes through and we get RGIII OR Luck. But, as with Campbell and even Ramsey, for a while, you think maybe, JUST MAYBE, it's there. Now, with both Ramsey and Campbell you saw reasonably early they would not be elite. With Campbell that realization came to some far later than to others because of all the change around him. The Redskins need someone to build around, who is your leader for 10 years. That could have been Tannehill, IN FOUR YEARS. It can be RGIII or Luck in 47 days. The price is horrendous, but, for a team that hasn't had that piece for so long, that may just be the price you have to pay to get it. My concern with RGIII doesn't negate the fact to get a guy with the potential to be that player the price will be high. My concern with RGIII is the game's best QBs, at present, are (not in order), Manning, Manning, Brees, Rivers, Rodgers, Brady, Big Ben-ish, Cutler, Romo sits to pee. You have Ryan, Flacco, Stafford who are young guys with rising potential. Until you mention Vick and Newton, you have NO one who has that skill set who factors in. RGIII isn't the tall pocket passer with NO mobility who are the game's best (Manning, Brady, Rivers, Brees) or the tall pocket passer with a LITTLE bit of mobility (Rodgers, Big Ben, Romo sits to pee, Cutler). He's Vick and Newton. Tebow on passing ability roids. For me, for RGIII to BE a great QB, he has to be one who is NOT in the mold of the great QBs of this, or, really, any other era. Can he? He has superior athleticism at that position to any other player at that position, probably EVER, save Michael Vick. But, he may already be a better passer than Vick was until two years ago. May. If RGIII is a legit NFL passer with actual anticipation and the ability to have the whole field available to him -- something NO other mobile QB has really had very early in their career -- then he can break that mold. If his game is understood to be that of an elite passer, who adds the immense and impossible-to-counter athletic ability, then he can. If he's clearly a passer far, far ahead of Michael Vick from the get-go, who you can tell, almost right away, will be where Vick is, as a passer, maybe in Year 2, then we could give up MORE picks and not have given up enough for that type of value. All moves have an if factor. The Redskins should NEVER be judged on this trade, should it actually happen, based on whether RGIII is great or based on whether RGIII blows chunks. The trade doesn't get better if he's good and doesn't get worse if he's bad. The team does. The trade is good or bad today. It cost too much, or we didn't give up as much as we should have to get what we have now, RIGHT NOW. Though my logical brain says too much, and go Manning/Tanne, my fan-brain, the one that realizes this team needs someone to believe in tomorrow, not in four years, the cost is probably exactly in line with what this team needs. And if he's good, so too will the team be. If he blows, honestly, with free agency money, we'll just continue mostly sucking and sometimes sneaking in wins. Welcome Nicks here too . Then it looks better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pez Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I am excited about the pick... very excited. One of the things that keeps pecking at my mind is the track record we have at qb the past 20+ years. In drafting and FA acquisition, it has seemed like a curse. Please RG3... break the curse!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKskins Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Great post, I'm 100% with you man. I don't get everyone hating on the trade. We got our guy, we have a solid roster of young talent, a ton of cap room to fill needs, and on top of that, we have a FO who know what they're doing, and have gone 2/2 in terms of excellent drafts so far - trust them. Jenkins coming back from injury is like having our 2nd rounder back this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 The one thing many fail to take into account is the change in rookie Salaries since the Eli Manning and Vick trades or the change in free agency since the Walker trade. Signing Vick and Manning affected what the Giants and Falcons could do in Free Agency and the Vikes didn't even have the option of Free Agency. Bottomline this deal may be a bit more expensive than previous examples but not really than much more given the new circumstances for rookies and Free agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilkyDiamonds Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 We have #1s now at 3 of the 4 most important positions in the game: QB, LT, Pass Rusher(2). The only 1 missing is CB. The genius in that is its entirely more possible to get a Elite CB on the FA market than any of those other positions. We now have elite players at the force multiplier positions save for CB. Each of those positions when manned by an elite level person makes other positions better. Unlike say Guard. Think about this critically, missing those 2 #1s would hurt. But in all honesty where else were we going to use a #1? WR? You're just as linkely to have a top WR drafted in the 4th as you are the 1st. Totally dependant on having an Elite QB. Ask Victor Cruz. Guard? you're just as likely to find a stud Guard in the 4th as you are the 1st. Center? Show me the Super Bowl winning team that has a 1st rd center Safety? Yeah ummm.....Becoming more important, but honestly just like CB can both be found later in the Draft and in FA RT? RTs are LTs who couldnt be 1st rd picks and bad footwork. Plenty of LTs that arent elite in the draft that will be moved to RT Basically we'd have been selecting any of the above positions in future 1st rounds, and we'd essentially be reaching and overpaying for positions. This was a very smart move as in finally Danny's spend anything FA talent/skill/lust, can now be married to having the essential foundational picks to support it. There just arent many sexy safeties, guards, centers, RTs out there for Danny to go overboard on if he so felt inclined and there most often wont be. Which means Bruce will be doing that targeting without a peep from Danny. WRs you're gonna overpay for them on the secondary market no matter how you slice it. Its part of the game. CB we're gonna spend a nice chunck of change on 1 if not this year, next. But we're already spending that on Hall. In that time we'll also draft 3 corners from rd 3 on. Watch Safety again a position just as likely addressed in later rounds of the draft and FA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkedUp Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 "It was time for us to grow some balls"? I would like to know what was in Rdeskins's Hayne's briefs when we traded for McNabb, signed Haynesworth, Named Zorn, Spurrier, or Gibbs (II) coach, etc..? This is just another long list in the huge risky moves this organization has recently made. Let's hope this is one overpriced long shots that actually pays off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 And i don't think people realize the net effect on the rest of the team. Don't you think Moss Gaffney and AA are gonna have a better year solely because this QB is going to make better decisions, place the ball for these receivers unlike beck or grossman. There is a dual threat at QB along with a speedy RB in Helu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Great post, but yeah we have had our own home grown franchise quarterback opportunities (RG3 is now nothing but an opportunity). If Campbell and Ramsey don't count, Heath Shuler was considered by many a "sure thing". The idea that we have never tried to have a franchise QB isn't true. So the sky isn't falling. But we also don't know if RG3 is rolling into camp like Michael Westbrook did in his new Ferrari with an I got paid attitude or someone who wants to be great in the NFL. We have Heath Shuler and or Cam Newton on our doorstep. Lets see who shows up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadKarma Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 This pick also allows us to become players on the FA market again. Without a QB we were essentially looking at attracting the 2nd tier FA's or looking to overpay for the 1st and bring in guys more concerned with cash than winning. We become legitimate with RG3 in the respect that teams know we are building up to win immediately assuming we can land the right FA class. Excited to see us get off to a good start next week and bring in a big fish or two on day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJD2 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 It looks like a steep price to pay today, but this is the kind of thing that can't be judged fro many years. The only thing that I'm really worried about is the Colts taking him over Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetThePointsSoar Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I am excited about the pick... very excited. One of the things that keeps pecking at my mind is the track record we have at qb the past 20+ years. In drafting and FA acquisition, it has seemed like a curse. Please RG3... break the curse!!! Exactly. All I know, is I hope he's starting Week 1, because I'm definitely flying out for the home opener tailgate this year...going to be a fun ride, can't wait to be a witness!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabR Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I bet you the Rams make it to the playoffs before we do. The way to build is the draft no FA I am glad we got RG3/Luck but not at the price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheel_Skin Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I bet you the Rams make it to the playoffs before we do. The way to build is the draft no FAI am glad we got RG3/Luck but not at the price Maybe, look at that division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Are half the posters on ES my ex-wife? I swear to God people are ****ing just to *****. Can people ever be happy? Apparently not..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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