Main-Maine Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 As a person who's been against doing whatever it takes as some people want to get a franchise QB, I like the running game but the reason why I counter claims about QBs, because most of the people calling for a QB seem to have no faith in the Skins front office anywhere else. It's like they can't do anything right, except acquire a superstar QB. It's kind of a warped logic and it's why I'd like to build a team, then put a QB in the driver's seat. I see what your saying and feel almost the say way you do. I dont want the Redskins to draft a QB for the sake of drafting one or because ESPN thinks he's Drew Bree's second coming, but if the QB fits our system. I also want the Redskins to draft good surrounding cast, but I feel we could land these same position in later rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Robert Griffin Experience Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Do teams make the franchise QB or does the QB make the team? Was Cassell a franchise QB when he won 11 games with the Pats and stopped being a franchise QB because he's now with the Chiefs Considering the franchise QB won 18 games with that team, then 10, 14 then 13 with worse teams afterwards, I think the QB made the team in that case. . Same question, substitute Joe Montana. Franchise QB with 49ers, not so much with the Chiefs when he left, but the QB that replaced him, Steve Young, was not so franchise-ish when he played for the Buccaneers but became a franchise QB when he went to a very good 49ers team. A 36 year old Joe Montana declined when not surrounded by elite talent. Are you suggesting that 26 year old Joe Montana would have struggled as much as 36 year old Joe Montana? And Young was a hot trade commodity when he was traded. It's likely he could have looked more like Doug Williams did - good enough to get them to the playoffs once in a while. He only played there for 2 years. Also, Cam has no defense which hurts his record, the Eagles are the best team in the division but bad coaching made them underachieve, and Bradford may not be that good, seeing it's mindboggling that you can invest THAT MUCH in O-Line and have ALL of that investment apparently wash out. The point being it was the same QB but different teams that determined how good the QB was. It was not the QB making the team great. A large part of the equation,yes. But the same QB you call "franchise" looks very poor when on a poor team without an offensive line, receivers, a running game, etc. Yet you get QBs who look like franchise QBs without one or more of those elements. Put Grossman on a better team (one with the Hogs for example and a 70-chip that works again and again) and voila, you will have a much better QB. Put Brady with a high school offensive line and the cheerleaders for receivers and he will suddenly be a very ordinary QB. Idiotic strawman argument. Why did Alex Smith magically become a better QB despite no improvement from the line, the same run game and the same targets as last year? Why did T.J Yates get worked by the Colts led by Curtis Painter? For that matter, why did the Colts go 2-14 without Peyton Manning? Why did Caleb Hanie drop 6 of 7 games? Why does Eli Manning throw for nearly 5k yards despite being last in the NFL in rushing? Why does Tony Romo sits to pee throw for 29 TDs and 4500 yards despite having a pathetic line? We were top half of the league in terms of both pass AND run blocking. This is with the 10 sack aberration with Beck. This is WITH our franchise LT missing half the year. Yet because it suits your agenda, you want to pretend we still have the 2009 line. These are the questions the "QB last" people cannot answer, because their position is fundamentally wrong. The 80s are over people. They're never coming back. You can't get the Hogs anymore. You can't even get close. You're so ridiculously stuck in your "1980s let's get an unreasonably stacked team and put an average QB behind it, it'll work out" and nothing anyone says will change your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Sam Bradford? Cam Newton? Michael Vick? Sam Bradford isn't a franchise QB yet. Newton, if he continues next season like he did this season, will become one damn quick. As for Vick, he was 7-6 as a starter this season. Last year he was 8-3 as starter (minus the game where we knocked him out early). The last year he played before being out of the league, he was 7-9. The year before that, 8-7. That sounds like it backs up the other poster's point, wouldn't you say? Do teams make the franchise QB or does the QB make the team? Was Cassell a franchise QB when he won 11 games with the Pats and stopped being a franchise QB because he's now with the Chiefs. Cassel had his best season as QB of the Chiefs...so if he was a franchise QB with the Patriots, he's still one with the Chiefs. And Cassel went 4-5 this season with the Chiefs (right around .500%)...10-5 in 2010...and 10-5 in 2008. As it stands now, 2009 looks to be an aberration, not the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Main-Maine Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Considering the franchise QB won 18 games with that team, then 10, 14 then 13 with worse teams afterwards, I think the QB made the team in that case.. A 36 year old Joe Montana declined when not surrounded by elite talent. Are you suggesting that 26 year old Joe Montana would have struggled as much as 36 year old Joe Montana? And Young was a hot trade commodity when he was traded. It's likely he could have looked more like Doug Williams did - good enough to get them to the playoffs once in a while. He only played there for 2 years. Also, Cam has no defense which hurts his record, the Eagles are the best team in the division but bad coaching made them underachieve, and Bradford may not be that good, seeing it's mindboggling that you can invest THAT MUCH in O-Line and have ALL of that investment apparently wash out. Yet you get QBs who look like franchise QBs without one or more of those elements. Idiotic strawman argument. Why did Alex Smith magically become a better QB despite no improvement from the line, the same run game and the same targets as last year? Why did T.J Yates get worked by the Colts led by Curtis Painter? For that matter, why did the Colts go 2-14 without Peyton Manning? Why did Caleb Hanie drop 6 of 7 games? Why does Eli Manning throw for nearly 5k yards despite being last in the NFL in rushing? Why does Tony Romo sits to pee throw for 29 TDs and 4500 yards despite having a pathetic line? We were top half of the league in terms of both pass AND run blocking. This is with the 10 sack aberration with Beck. This is WITH our franchise LT missing half the year. Yet because it suits your agenda, you want to pretend we still have the 2009 line. These are the questions the "QB last" people cannot answer, because their position is fundamentally wrong. The 80s are over people. They're never coming back. You can't get the Hogs anymore. You can't even get close. You're so ridiculously stuck in your "1980s let's get an unreasonably stacked team and put an average QB behind it, it'll work out" and nothing anyone says will change your mind. I laughed so hard when I read this, but man they need to HEAR IT!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpskins10 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I dont want the Redskins to draft a QB for the sake of drafting one or because ESPN thinks he's Drew Bree's second coming, but if the QB fits our system. . In today's league, a good QB fits every system because a good coach will tailor his system around a talented QB. A QB that isn't good won't fit any system, because in the end if you can't make the throws it doesn't matter how mobile or strong armed you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Main-Maine Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 In today's league, a good QB fits every system because a good coach will tailor his system around a talented QB. A QB that isn't good won't fit any system, because in the end if you can't make the throws it doesn't matter how mobile or strong armed you are. Agreed. I can think of examples like Drew Brees with the chargers, and look at him with NO. I know Drew Brees is really good, but I think that's also due to the system too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJL Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 These are the questions the "QB last" people cannot answer, because their position is fundamentally wrong. The 80s are over people. They're never coming back. You can't get the Hogs anymore. You can't even get close. You're so ridiculously stuck in your "1980s let's get an unreasonably stacked team and put an average QB behind it, it'll work out" and nothing anyone says will change your mind. Who's saying unreasonably stacked. We're saying "good", while most of you are saying the Redskins are bad. Look at the Detroit Lions for example. They tried to put Joey Harrignton in front of a bad team and nothing improved for them. Now they're going to the playoffs under Matthew Stafford. Of the players surrounding him quite a few of them were drafted before him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Robert Griffin Experience Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Who's saying unreasonably stacked. We're saying "good", while most of you are saying the Redskins are bad. Look at the Detroit Lions for example. They tried to put Joey Harrignton in front of a bad team and nothing improved for them. Now they're going to the playoffs under Matthew Stafford. Of the players surrounding him quite a few of them were drafted before him Actually nearly every starter they have was drafted or acquired after Stafford. The only major pre-Stafford acquisitions were Megatron and Avril (I think) And the thing is that people are pretending that our supporting cast for a great QB is horrendous when it's not. Good RBs. Okayish WRs. Top 10 TE. Line that finished top-half of the league. Good defense with lots of young pieces. Great coaching with a system that gets guys open easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJL Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Actually nearly every starter they have was drafted or acquired after Stafford. The only major pre-Stafford acquisitions were Megatron and Avril (I think)And the thing is that people are pretending that our supporting cast for a great QB is horrendous when it's not. Good RBs. Okayish WRs. Top 10 TE. Line that finished top-half of the league. Good defense with lots of young pieces. Great coaching with a system that gets guys open easily. Johnson, Backus, Cherilus, Peterman, Raiola were acquired in the years before Stafford. Morris was signed that year before the draft, Pettigrew was drafted in the same draft. Sims, Schefler and Burleson came after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 My best friend is a Giants fan and was worried about the Redskins very early in preseason. We ended up sweeping them so he must see something in this team that we aren't seeing yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Every team is a QB away from contending. Even the Rams and Panthers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindlywewander Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I read through it and was going to respond with something, but I really don't give a **** what cowboy fans think. Positive or negative. I just don't care whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Every team is a QB away from contending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Even the Rams and Panthers? The Panthers will contend within the next two years. Their defense will improve by accident if nothing else. They already have a scary scary offense. The Rams contended last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyGator Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 According to the media, the Rams' offensive line was too beat up for them to contend this year. Nice double standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky52Mc Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Honestly, idc whatever they have to say. I know for a fact we're a QB away from contending, more so then ever in recent years. I don't need a pukes fan to tel me that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 This is the kind of thinking that screws us over every time. We are not one player away from anything (although I want to get RGIII or Luck). We went 5-11, and we are improving. As we continue to improve across the board, and most importantly at QB, we will get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martytheman Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Or our sack numbers: Beck and Grossman are notorious for holding the ball too long and not being able to move in the pocket. When we get a QB who gets the ball out on time and has pocket awareness, the total sacks allowed will drop dramatically. Amazingly, two of our holes have just disappeared, without addressing them directly. That sounds like a giant load of poop. All the pocket awareness in the world doesn't matter when you get to the back of your drop and there are d linemen in your face. Quite a few of Rexy's underthrown balls were a direct result of him getting blown up while releasing the ball. Yes, sometimes he held the ball too long and took sacks because of it, but that's not the SOLE reason the o-line is a "problem" The interior and right side sucks in pass pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Is there anybody in the draft worth 5 plays? If yes, then we are just a QB away from contending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahibachi Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 we can plug some holes along the offensive line and shore up protection in FA/later rounds of the draft a heck of a lot easier then finding a franchise QB that way. Time to make a move and get RGIII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frediemac Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 we can plug some holes along the offensive line and shore up protection in FA/later rounds of the draft a heck of a lot easier then finding a franchise QB that way. Time to make a move and get RGIII. I rather try to get Luck because he stays in the pocket and won't be as likely to get hurt. I think that QB's that run more often are the QB's that miss parts of the season Injured. (Vick) Only a very smart QB who knows to get down will be fully successful. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I rather try to get Luck because he stays in the pocket and won't be as likely to get hurt. I think that QB's that run more often are the QB's that miss parts of the season Injured. (Vick) Only a very smart QB who knows to get down will be fully successful. IMO That's a good one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just skins baby Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Yeah a quarterback like Brees who lit it up and the any of the receivers that played in the second playoff game. Those guys caught everything that came their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirtyfive2seven Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I completely agree which is why I'd be so pissed if the skins don't draft a qb. I still think the best option is to re-sign grossman because a) no one else wants him and he knows the system and CAN perform as a backup should anything happen to our franchise qb. Grossman can show the rookie the ropes on how to run this offense because despite his limitations he knows the offense really well. I hope the skins actually make it happen this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HLF Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 We should do everything we can to draft RG3 or Luck. We should also try to sign a stud WR in FA if available, like Vincent Jackson. Then use all of our remaining picks or cap space to get better depth at oline. We could be a very scary team if those things happen. This is the perfect post. Amen brotha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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