Mike Wise: For Redskins, Mike Shanahan is not new and not yet improved

[Timmy Smith]

http://www.goerie.com/article/20111111091341

It was on July 29, following the first practice of training camp. Washington Redskins coach Mike Shanahan bristled over a question about quarterback John Beck's lack of experience, then expounded by giving the strongest vote of confidence imaginable to both Beck and Rex Grossman.

"You talk about a guy not being experienced - I believe in the guys," Shanahan said. "I believe in `em. And I've been doing this for a long time. And I put my reputation on these guys that they can play."

Thanks for the link, and not to bore everyone with tit-for-tat, so I'll say I stand corrected. But I still roll my eyes at anyone who thinks "stake my reputation on these guys THAT THEY CAN PLAY" (emphasis added) means anything other than coach's speak. Of course they can play; they're NFL starters. He never said they could play at a Pro Bowl level...

[hail2skins]

Of course they can play; they're NFL starters.

John Beck was never an NFL starter except for the three games in which he replaced Interceptus Rex, and most certainly never will be a starter in this league again.

Prior to this season, Grossman hadn't been an NFL starter in several years and, god willing, will not start for the Redskins in 2012.

[Commander PK]

There are a million things he could have said instead of the stupidity that was "I'm staking my rep on Beck/Grossman."

One of the things I find hilarious about people who routinely throw this out there is that they really believe in his heart, Mike Shanahan really truly believed what he said. (or whatever the exact quote was)

Do some of you honestly believe that he thought he could get top-tier QB performance out of either of them? You put that much stock in what the man states to the media? It's not like the man hasn't been here before. He's not an unproven coach making a statement like that. The man has coached some of the best QB's to ever play the game. The man has coached teams that won Super Bowls as an assistant and head coach.

Grossman going into his 3rd year in the system at the time the decision had to be made was better than any other option available to the team in last year's abbreviated, lock-out shortened off-season, after they decided not to draft a QB. Simple as that.

I think some people just can't stand the fact he had the gall to say something like that. The same type of people who wanted him to come out and say right away "We are rebuilding, there is little to no talent on this team, and we are likely going to suck for a while. See you on Sunday!"

As if anybody who really pays attention to this team needed to be "told" this to begin with. Maybe the casual fan who doesn't understand offense from defense needed to be "told" this, so they wouldn't have to be upset after spending a couple grand on tickets and the team loses...but anybody with even an average knowledge of football shouldn't need to have been told the Redskins were in horrible shape, and it was going to take a couple of years to get this team on a track that COULD eventually lead to a Super Bowl appearance.

because god knows the other way we were doing things wasn't going to lead us anywhere.

I totally agree a time will come when it's time to win...period. We aren't even close to that time yet. All I think Shanny and the Redskins have to do for year 3 is win a few more games with the right pieces in place getting ready for a run at some point in the next 2. With a blueprint in place for continued consistent future success no matter who the coach is.

[Commander PK]

but i still roll my eyes at anyone who thinks "stake my reputation on these guys that they can play" (emphasis added) means anything other than coach's speak. Of course they can play; they're nfl starters. He never said they could play at a pro bowl level...

bingo

[NewCliche21]

I just don't understand how people can actually believe that the whole "staking his reputation" on Beck and Grossman means anything to him. He was sick of taking quarterback questions, pissed off that he didn't get the one that he wanted, and said it. He couldn't care less about what you care about him.

This isn't Gruden or some other attention whore; this is Mike Shanahan. He plays to win, and the media is irrelevant. I wouldn't be surprised if he said it and then went back and said, "Hey, you, intern! Go online and see who was enough of a dumbass to think that I give a **** what my reputation is based on these quarterbacks. These two rings say it all."

[Commander PK]

but i still roll my eyes at anyone who thinks "stake my reputation on these guys that they can play" (emphasis added) means anything other than coach's speak. Of course they can play; they're nfl starters. He never said they could play at a pro bowl level...

bingo

[hail2skins]

All I think Shanny and the Redskins have to do for year 3 is win a few more games with the right pieces in place getting ready for a run at some point in the next 2. With a blueprint in place for continued consistent future success no matter who the coach is.

Which, at the end of the article which is the basis of this thread, is basically what Wise says.

[Commander PK]

Which, at the end of the article which is the basis of this thread, is basically what Wise says.

that's fine. I was addressing the "stake the reputation on Beck/Grossman" thing which continues to pop up in most threads of this nature.

While doing so, I also went off on a tangent about people who feel they deserved to be "told" the team was going to suck, and to temper their expectations...which admittedly had nothing directly to do with the article or the thread. Call it frustration boiling over with the "deserve to be told" crowd.

[Skinsfan4life83]

Which, at the end of the article which is the basis of this thread, is basically what Wise says.

My main point is Wise says besides Dline and Kerrigan there is no evidence Shanahan has improved this team. Which is untrue. From a W/L perspective, yes. But he has created depth where there was none and gotten this team younger. The defense has improved immensely from last year. We have our franchise RB's.

But guys like Wise never seem to mention any of these things. Negativity runs rampant.

I also disagree that next season is make or break for Shanny. I just don't see it. As long as he gets a QB I see him bring here for at least two more

[paloosa]

UnWise Mike is an idiot. The WR corpse was improved upon along with the RB position and WR. UnWise Mike is just a loudmouth reporter that bashesw Snyder ofr meddling and when that happens he turns it around and says that he needs to get more involved because that isn't working out. All based on his idiotic opinion. Who the H**L is he to make these statments? He just wants to be negative all the time.

[2006Skins]

What a terrible article by Wise.

I keep seeing Zorn and Shanny's record compared and it's completely unjustified. Zorn came into a situation where the team was coming off of a playoff year and was expected to win NOW. Shanny is coming into an organization that had to be overhauled. Two completely different circumstances and the fact that Shanny is only one game under Zorn's shows how much of a better coaching and FO situation we have here now.

[Crazy Levi]

One of the things I find hilarious about people who routinely throw this out there is that they really believe in his heart, Mike Shanahan really truly believed what he said. (or whatever the exact quote was)

Don't shoot me, I didn't say it. I don't know if he believed it or not. I'm not a mind reader.

The fact is it was a stupid thing to say, and if he fails here, it's his epitath and all anybody is going to remember about his 5 years here.

"Yeah...remember when Shanny took over the Skins? Said he'd stake his reputation on Beck and Rex Grossman."

[Commander PK]

The fact is it was a stupid thing to say, and if he fails here, it's his epitath and all anybody is going to remember about his 5 years here.

actually, when you get right down to it. It's a "I don't give a flying **** what you think" thing to say.

and that's something I absolutely love about Shanahan, and why I continue to believe he is the PERFECT coach for the Redskins, in addition to his pedigree and accomplishments.

He does not live to please the media in D.C, and they don't intimidate him.

[MrJL]

it's frankly pretty obnoxious to me. I mean he's basically saying two years is to soon to fire him, but three years is to long to wait. And since he got the team the only coaches he's fired were Turner, who'd had seven years and only one winning team, Schottenheimer, one season, and eight years later Zorn after two. Spurrier and Gibbs quit and retired respectively.

[RANSKINS98]

Now that Dan has "officially" butted out of "operations", the fans are still on his case; that's just irritating. You should see some of the comments people post on the Redskins page on facebook, it's just ridicilous.

But in regards to Mike I think he has done a great job rebuilding this team in terms of JUST rebuilding Mike might be the best rebuilding coach that we have had. (remember im 27)

[Commander PK]

Now that Dan has "officially" butted out of "operations", the fans are still on his case; that's just irritating. You should see some of the comments people post on the Redskins page on facebook, it's just ridiculous.

Yes...YES it is, and irritating is an excellent choice of word. Many Redskins fans are idiots. It's just that simple.

But in regards to Mike I think he has done a great job rebuilding this team in terms of JUST rebuilding Mike might be the best rebuilding coach that we have had. (remember im 27)

Mike is really the ONLY "rebuilding" coach we've had in the truest sense of the term.

[grego]

But guys like Wise never seem to mention any of these things. Negativity runs rampant.

i like wise. he seems like a very nice guy and he can even be funny at times. but when it comes to football knowledge and an informed, intelligent opinion, i'll look elsewhere.

his rants about the name of the team and his butchering of team history- even recent history- i can do without.

[Dirt]

People keep writing things like this, and all they ever say is: "we know it's different this time, but what if it isn't?". Thrilling premise for an article... They're not saying anything.

[TSO]

Don't shoot me, I didn't say it. I don't know if he believed it or not. I'm not a mind reader.

The fact is it was a stupid thing to say, and if he fails here, it's his epitath and all anybody is going to remember about his 5 years here.

"Yeah...remember when Shanny took over the Skins? Said he'd stake his reputation on Beck and Rex Grossman."

What people? If that's all "people" remember about his 5 years here and not his drafting of Trent Williams and Perry Riley in 2010; his trading down in the 2011 draft to end up with 10 picks, almost all quality picks; his 2011 FA class; his 2011 trades for Gaffney/Hightower; his dumping of Haynesworth/McNabb or anyone who proved to not be all in and actually netting draft picks in the process; his establishing a work-to-be-rewarded and no-nonsense atmosphere to which many players attest to everyday; his continued emphasis on getting younger and cutting any dead weight; and other things I just failed to remember, not to mention future possibilities... what the hell kind of "people" are these you speak of and why the hell would we give a crap about any of them?

They're whom you'd call morons, in that case.

[skinny21]

Okay…maybe I’m a homer, but I would sign Shanny to a 2-year extension. Right now. He and his staff were handicapped in his first 2 offseasons through no fault of his own. Give him those 2 years back now and let Wise and the other jerks fume about it.

Haha... You want to hear from Snyder so badly Mr. wise? How's about an extension? Didn't see that coming did you?

I love it.

[NewCliche21]

What people? If that's all "people" remember about his 5 years here and not his drafting of Trent Williams and Perry Riley in 2010; his trading down in the 2011 draft to end up with 10 picks, almost all quality picks; his 2011 FA class; his 2011 trades for Gaffney/Hightower; his dumping of Haynesworth/McNabb or anyone who proved to not be all in and actually netting draft picks in the process; his establishing a work-to-be-rewarded and no-nonsense atmosphere to which many players attest to everyday; his continued emphasis on getting younger and cutting any dead weight; and other things I just failed to remember, not to mention future possibilities... what the hell kind of "people" are these you speak of and why the hell would we give a crap about any of them?

They're whom you'd call morons, in that case.

Remember that "Best posts" thread that one of the mods made a couple of years ago? This needs to go in it. Seriously, I wish that more people could remember more than ten seconds ago.

[veteranskinsfan]

I think this franchise under Snyder continues to sell "hope" to a fan base year after year. Fans would like to see a winning tradition return. Next year we need more "wins". I read Tom Boswell and Wise columns and they are not idiots. They want fans to think in the offseason about the best way to "measure progress" under the Shanny regime. For example a 9-7 record next year would be a significant positive outcome for sure. At the opposite extreme, a 6-10 record would most likely mean trouble for the Shanny regime. As fans we need to think what would be an acceptable overal record ( benchmark) we could identify to know that real progress has been made. Yes, the team has added some depth at certain positions but we do not have a lot of playmakers. We do not have a playoff quarterback. Our offensive line should have more depth than we had last year since the backups this year got some valuable playing time. But just think about how you would evaluate the team at the end of next season if you were either the General Manager, Snyder or the head coach. Would not making the playoffs be acceptable or not? I read where Shanny this week said he believes he has a total of 4 years to coach the team and he would not expect to be paid for his fifth season if the team was not improving. This fan base has been patient for sure but hoping the team will improve from year to year is no real objective means for fans to measure a successful football season any more. If we get a new good quarterback and still have a losing record does that mean fans will be satisfied at the end of the 2012 season? Would getting younger as a team and adding more team speed and more depth at certain positions be sufficient even if we did not have a winning record next season?

[Epochalypse]

I think this franchise under Snyder continues to sell "hope" to a fan base year after year. Fans would like to see a winning tradition return. Next year we need more "wins". I read Tom Boswell and Wise columns and they are not idiots. They want fans to think in the offseason about the best way to "measure progress" under the Shanny regime. For example a 9-7 record next year would be a significant positive outcome for sure. At the opposite extreme, a 6-10 record would most likely mean trouble for the Shanny regime. As fans we need to think what would be an acceptable overal record ( benchmark) we could identify to know that real progress has been made. Yes, the team has added some depth at certain positions but we do not have a lot of playmakers. We do not have a playoff quarterback. Our offensive line should have more depth than we had last year since the backups this year got some valuable playing time. But just think about how you would evaluate the team at the end of next season if you were either the General Manager, Snyder or the head coach. Would not making the playoffs be acceptable or not? I read where Shanny this week said he believes he has a total of 4 years to coach the team and he would not expect to be paid for his fifth season if the team was not improving. This fan base has been patient for sure but hoping the team will improve from year to year is no real objective means for fans to measure a successful football season any more. If we get a new good quarterback and still have a losing record does that mean fans will be satisfied at the end of the 2012 season? Would getting younger as a team and adding more team speed and more depth at certain positions be sufficient even if we did not have a winning record next season?

So they should be selling despair? It does seem quite a few people are in the market for that

We had no playmakers when he got here. He tried to get one in McNabb and that went poorly, but through the draft we now have some possibilities with Kerrigan, Helu, Hankerson. I suspect we'll get some more this offseason as well. It will take time but once we got the pieces in place I really think we'll be fine. And despite the rough schedule next year, I think we definitely show improvement.

[Dallsux]

So the question I pose to you my fellow ES'ers is this. Outside of our linebackers what groups are improved from last year and why?

Running backs: Hightower, Helu, Royster. All of them make for a great stable of backs that, even if the numbers don't show it, vastly improved our running game this season. Helu was routinely making 1st downs ON 1st downs. Hightower wasn't making alot of yardage, but he was always turning his wheels & in his defense, at the time, he was often getting hit by defenders BEFORE he got to the LOS.

Defense: DE & D-Line were actually getting pressure on the QB without the need of 7 other blitzers. Fancy blitzing schemes were not always needed to see QBs running for their collective lives.

[MrJL]

Running backs: Hightower, Helu, Royster. All of them make for a great stable of backs that, even if the numbers don't show it, vastly improved our running game this season. Helu was routinely making 1st downs ON 1st downs. Hightower wasn't making alot of yardage, but he was always turning his wheels & in his defense, at the time, he was often getting hit by defenders BEFORE he got to the LOS.

Defense: DE & D-Line were actually getting pressure on the QB without the need of 7 other blitzers. Fancy blitzing schemes were not always needed to see QBs running for their collective lives.

really I think most of the team has improved. We may not have a great WR but we've got a lot of pretty good ones. Looking at out starting OL at the beginning of the year and the end of the year I'd say it now has depth.

I know there's a lot of people who hate to hear that the Skins are close, but while QB play hasn't been great I really believe the worst part of the Skins for years has been the total lack of luck. Nothing bounces our way. And for those who say you make your own luck, when the ball is bouncing around on the ground no one controls which way it bounces.