Mike Wise: For Redskins, Mike Shanahan is not new and not yet improved

[Skinsfan4life83]

Daniel Snyder’s meddlesome ways have been pilloried for much of the last decade. Stop being a player personnel director. Most of the disenchanted fan base pleaded for the Washington Redskins owner to sign the checks and butt out. So now that it has been almost two years since Snyder turned over complete control of all things football to Mike Shanahan and benched himself as a talent evaluator, it’s worth asking the burgundy and gold legions:

How’s that working out?

Snyder is so uninvolved now he has yet to issue a statement of support for Shanahan, whose 11-21 record in Washington is a victory off Jim Zorn’s 12-20 mark in 2008-09 —after which the Zornado was fired. It’s just assumed Shanahan will not only be back for another year of the build but very possibly for final refurbishing in 2013 and 2014, the final years on a deal on which he is still owed $21 million.

Continued here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/with-mike-shanahan-redskins-arent-that-much-better-off-than-when-daniel-snyder-was-calling-the-shots/2012/01/03/gIQAAiuDZP_story.html

Ok I know its UnWise Mike but how can this guy seriously say that outside of our linebacker corps no other position has been improved.

Um Mr. Wise what about Helu and Royster? Bowen, Carriker and Cofield?

So the question I pose to you my fellow ES'ers is this. Outside of our linebackers what groups are improved from last year and why?

Also do you agree with Wise that Snyder should be more involved?

[oldskoolskins]

Snyder has been doing well to keep his mouth shut and let football people run the show, let's not screw it up now. I wish Wise would shut his piehole...

[hail2skins]

You might want to read the article again. Wise says "upgraded defensive line" which means Bowen, Carriker, and Cofield.

The RBs look solid to be sure but so did Ryan Torain at the end of last season and he's not even on the team now. And how many times in past seasons did we think Ladell Betts was going to emerge as a stud?

Even Shanahan has said that it takes three full seasons before you can fairly identify a draft class.

As far as the main gist of Wise's article, of course people are going to start speculating about how Shanny has to do in Year 3 to keep his job into 2013. Expectations are going to be altered by the moves we make in FA and the draft. The most important position that will define will be QB. Wise says 7 is the magic number if a rookie QB is growing into the starting job. I think the "rookie QB growing into the starting job" line is key, for that will be the most important thing that should be happening at the end of next season. I'm not expecting even a Luck or RG3 to deliver instant results, but if we do draft in the high rounds and the QB is making progress but we still only wind up with, say, 6 wins, that should save Shanny. Less than 6 and I think he's really skating on thin ice.

And if the FO decides to go the free agent route or trade to get QB......I think next season needs to be at least .500.

[GaryGreenMonk]

Cofield, Bowen, Carriker (Soon to be Jarvis Jenkins) are all big upgrades over Big Phil (as much as I love him), Griffin, Haynesworth, Carter and Wynn

It's a much better DL.

I feel like some spots on the OL are upgraded. Monty > Rabach, Trent Williams obviously is a huge upgrade over Heyer, Kory Lich is an upgrade when he was healthy, and our back ups are better than previously with Smith and Polumbus. I think our Oline has good depth now, but we still need a couple good starters, mainly at LG and RT. Jamal Brown may or may not ever be fully healthy. But if we adress those 2 positions and then maybe get a young C, we will finally have good starters and good depth at OL.

WR is definitely upgraded. 2009 Roster was Moss, Randel El, Malcomb Kelly, Marko Mitchell and Devin Thomas. That has to be probably the worst WR line up in the history of the NFL.

obviously, Moss, Gaffney, Stallworth, Hankerson, Paul is a much better line up. It still obviously needs work.. everyone knows that. We need another big go to guy to put opposite Hankerson when he comes back healthy and move Moss to the slot, dump Stallworth and Gaffney and Paul are the 4th and 5th and we'll finally have a decent line up at WR. We are just 1 top draft pick at WR away.

RB/FB looks to be improved, but we can't say that for certain yet. But certainly, Hightower, Helu, Royster, DYoung look like they will be a very upgraded combo over Portis, Betts, some scrub, Sellers

I will agree that CB and FS/SS are not really improved and we are probably in a worse position with injuries and all than we were then. FS and CB badly need addressed in the draft or FA. Atogwe and Landry can't seem to remain healthy and that's very damaging for us because our depth at those positions are terrible. We also need a shut down corner. We need a #1 CB, put Hall on the #2 guy and Josh will be the slot/#3. Keep Westbrook and Barnes as depth. That would be a much better situation at CB. FS/SS worrys me. If Atogwe and Landry cant get healthy next year.. we are screwed at those positions. Gomes hopefully can step up to grow into one of those.. but that leaves us with Doughty at the other. We need real starters that can stay healthy at those positions.

Kicker/Punter is also an upgraded position, dont think you could argue against that.

Whatever we do at QB will finally be an upgrade over Campbell/Brennan as well. But currently, I would not call that position upgraded.

[FSUSkins24]

Who is this UnWise Mike character and where does he get the credibility to spout of such asinine crap?

---------- Post added January-4th-2012 at 10:04 AM ----------

And how many times in past seasons did we think Ladell Betts was going to emerge as a stud?

People thought Betts would be a stud?

[Bang]

Wise should take a cue from Snyder and shut up.

It is mind boggling to me how the media in this town can be

A/ so completely clueless about what needed to be done here and how long it is going to take

and B/ actively trying to undermine it by consistently harping on the negative

I tried to watch the Redskins rah-rah show on Saturday evening on channel 4, and UnWise Mike caused me to turn the channel.

the complete lack of understanding and then the ignorance to sit there and say some of the things he did really REALLY make me question not only his journalistic integrity, but his overall football intelligence. I don't change the channel because I disagree with him, I change it because the input he is polluting the air with is completely off base.

He may know basketball, but he hasn't got a clue about what is happening here, and if he does and still says the same things and asks the same questions, I have to wonder what his actual motivation is, because it is not in any way helping anyone in this city understand the situation.

I had to turn it off. I wanted Doc Walker to reach over and snatch his face off his head.. not for having a negative opinion, but for being so caustic in his suggestons for the future, and how fans should view the last two years.

It's almost Fox-News like in it's method of twisting fact to manipulate the stupid.

~Bang

[Hazel-Ra]

A: I think Mr Snyder's lack of presence the last couple of seasons is spectacular. They hardly even show him in the booth anymore. I think (hope) he finally gets it and I think he should stay his present course.

B: I think it's obvious that Helu, Royster and hopefully Hightower have given us a good RB core. All three of them did more good than bad this season.

[GaryGreenMonk]

I had to turn it off. I wanted Doc Walker to reach over and snatch his face off his head.. not for having a negative opinion, but for being so caustic in his suggestons for the future, and how fans should view the last two years.

It's almost Fox-News like in it's method of twisting fact to manipulate the stupid.

~Bang

I agree its hard to listen to some of the crap they say, as well as the constant negativity from people like Chad and Lavar. (even though they claim to be "objective")

But.. Shanahan has got to start winning.

We agree the roster is improved, the culture is improved, talent has been upgraded.

but we are missing a very important puzzle piece and we arent winning. have a record worse than Zorn over the first 2 years is not good.

I really like the direction he's going, but Shanahan HAS to get a QB and HAS to improve the record next year.. even if just to 8-8.

Its coming time he needs to shut these people up with wins. I really hope he does, cause i dont want to see what hes begun get dismantled.

[Skinsfan4life83]

You might want to read the article again. Wise says "upgraded defensive line" which means Bowen, Carriker, and Cofield.

The RBs look solid to be sure but so did Ryan Torain at the end of last season and he's not even on the team now. And how many times in past seasons did we think Ladell Betts was going to emerge as a stud?

Even Shanahan has said that it takes three full seasons before you can fairly identify a draft class.

As far as the main gist of Wise's article, of course people are going to start speculating about how Shanny has to do in Year 3 to keep his job into 2013. Expectations are going to be altered by the moves we make in FA and the draft. The most important position that will define will be QB. Wise says 7 is the magic number if a rookie QB is growing into the starting job. I think the "rookie QB growing into the starting job" line is key, for that will be the most important thing that should be happening at the end of next season. I'm not expecting even a Luck or RG3 to deliver instant results, but if we do draft in the high rounds and the QB is making progress but we still only wind up with, say, 6 wins, that should save Shanny. Less than 6 and I think he's really skating on thin ice.

And if the FO decides to go the free agent route or trade to get QB......I think next season needs to be at least .500.

Um you might want to reread the article,

"Beyond an upgraded defensive line and Ryan Kerrigan becoming a breakout star, no solid evidence exists that Shanaplan is working. What other position group is significantly better than it was two years ago?"

This sounds to me like he said there is no evidence outside of Kerrigan and a passing reference about the Dline that Shanny has done little to better the team which is false.

Shanahan has taken an aging roster and replaced it with young hungry talented players. Helu and Royster are much more talented than a aging ladell betts ever was.

Helu is breaking franchise records in his rookie year. Something betts couldn't do in his entire career. This is the kind of drama inciting journalism that makes me sick. Completely ignore the good and focus on the negative. It's ignorant.

[Bang]

I agree its hard to listen to some of the crap they say, as well as the constant negativity from people like Chad and Lavar. (even though they claim to be "objective")

But.. Shanahan has got to start winning.

We agree the roster is improved, the culture is improved, talent has been upgraded.

but we are missing a very important puzzle piece and we arent winning. have a record worse than Zorn over the first 2 years is not good.

I really like the direction he's going, but Shanahan HAS to get a QB and HAS to improve the record next year.. even if just to 8-8.

Its coming time he needs to shut these people up with wins. I really hope he does, cause i dont want to see what hes begun get dismantled.

I agree he needs to win, but given the hurdles to be cleared first, I'd say that the larger jobs of turning the culture around and beginning to build a core of young players were definitely first on the list.

You guys ever buy a desk from Ikea?

You break it out of the box, and it takes a lot of work and some time before it looks like a desk and you can actually use it.

While you're building it there's pieces everywhere and it doesn't look at all like a desk, nor could it be used for one.

Wise's demand that Shanahan needs to win now ignores how much work needed to be done.

And the most frustrating thing about this media, is that Shanahan is doing exactly what they have all been screaming needs to be done for the last ten+ yrs... and now that someone is doing that, well, now they'l scream about that and demand what they argued against.. ie: win faster.

This is why I compared him to Fox news. Change the tune at the drop of a hat, pretend that what you screamed for is not what you got, and point fingers of blame around.

Wise complaining that Snyder has not made any announcement about Shanahan's future goes directly against all of the yelling of the previous decade on how he should handle the team.

They wanted him backed out, now he is, and they want him back in to meddle and make announcements that are not necessary.

I HATE the sports media in this town. (Other than Doc, Sheehan and Loverro.)

~Bang

[GaryGreenMonk]

I HATE the sports media in this town. (Other than Doc, Sheehan and Loverro.)

~Bang

I agree. Cant stand most of them.

Wins will shut them up.

It's been a 20 year process that has turned the media around here into negative attackers.. because there hasn't been much to be positive about and most fans lean to negative at this point. You can see that on this board after a loss.

If the team starts winning.. i almost think people like Chad and Lavar will sit in silence with nothing to say. It will be awesome.

Gotta start winning.. i agree this is a tough job and there was a lot to do to turn the organization around... but next year is year 3.. Shanahan will have 2 full drafts and now a full offseason/mini camps/OTAs.

He simply HAS to get a QB and HAS to do better than 6-10 next year.

[authentic]

Cofield, Bowen, Carriker (Soon to be Jarvis Jenkins) are all big upgrades over Big Phil (as much as I love him), Griffin, Haynesworth, Carter and Wynn

It's a much better DL.

I feel like some spots on the OL are upgraded. Monty > Rabach, Trent Williams obviously is a huge upgrade over Heyer, Kory Lich is an upgrade when he was healthy, and our back ups are better than previously with Smith and Polumbus. I think our Oline has good depth now, but we still need a couple good starters, mainly at LG and RT. Jamal Brown may or may not ever be fully healthy. But if we adress those 2 positions and then maybe get a young C, we will finally have good starters and good depth at OL.

WR is definitely upgraded. 2009 Roster was Moss, Randel El, Malcomb Kelly, Marko Mitchell and Devin Thomas. That has to be probably the worst WR line up in the history of the NFL.

obviously, Moss, Gaffney, Stallworth, Hankerson, Paul is a much better line up. It still obviously needs work.. everyone knows that. We need another big go to guy to put opposite Hankerson when he comes back healthy and move Moss to the slot, dump Stallworth and Gaffney and Paul are the 4th and 5th and we'll finally have a decent line up at WR. We are just 1 top draft pick at WR away.

RB/FB looks to be improved, but we can't say that for certain yet. But certainly, Hightower, Helu, Royster, DYoung look like they will be a very upgraded combo over Portis, Betts, some scrub, Sellers

I will agree that CB and FS/SS are not really improved and we are probably in a worse position with injuries and all than we were then. FS and CB badly need addressed in the draft or FA. Atogwe and Landry can't seem to remain healthy and that's very damaging for us because our depth at those positions are terrible. We also need a shut down corner. We need a #1 CB, put Hall on the #2 guy and Josh will be the slot/#3. Keep Westbrook and Barnes as depth. That would be a much better situation at CB. FS/SS worrys me. If Atogwe and Landry cant get healthy next year.. we are screwed at those positions. Gomes hopefully can step up to grow into one of those.. but that leaves us with Doughty at the other. We need real starters that can stay healthy at those positions.

Kicker/Punter is also an upgraded position, dont think you could argue against that.

Whatever we do at QB will finally be an upgrade over Campbell/Brennan as well. But currently, I would not call that position upgraded.

I agree with just about everything in this post. I would say every position has improved since the 2009 season. And yes, our WR corp as of 2009 had to have been the absolute worst in the history of the game. Simply God-awful!!

[laurent]

I like where this team is heading. We've gotten younger and the star system that's been a staple of this organization clearly is on its way out. The Redskins are a lot better than people are willing to give them credit for, it simply hasn't shown up in the win loss column yet.

Anybody that thought there would be a quick fix should have known better. Shanahan tried in his first season but did the wise thing and blew it up when it became evident that the incumbents didn't have it.

When an organization has been as awful as the Washington Redskins have been for two decades it takes time to establish a culture and turn things around for the better.

Next season is when I will start judging the new regime, until then I'm not going to listen to what those **** kickers at the Post have to say about this team.

[#98QBKiller]

But.. Shanahan has got to start winning.

This is what it comes down to. If Shanahan doesn't start winning next season, we're going to have yet another coach and coaching staff come in here and take over what Shanahan has been able to build so far.

Yes he's improved the roster, but I can't think of any coach in NFL history that has been kept on a team after three straight losing seasons.

[hail2skins]

I also think these speculative articles/opinion pieces are written because of the owner's past track record and because he has been pretty quiet in the midst of these two straight double-digit loss seasons. People are curious to know what Dan Snyder is thinking.

I personally feel that the owner is stunned that Shanahan has not delivered immediate results. Snyder made the same statement in several interviews heading into the 2010 season that "as long as I have a coach like Joe Gibbs or Mike Shanahan, I don't have to be as involved." Meaning that as long as he had a hotshot coach, the wins would come quickly.

These past two years have really thrown a bucket of cold water on that notion. Its not necessarily the coach,but the way you go about building the team which is as important. Snyder is hopefully realizing that Vinny Cerrato and, to a lesser extent, Joe Gibbs, were the culprits behind why the team was in the shape it was prior to Shanny's arrival.

[Boss_Hogg]

Wise also works for that anti-Redskins radio station 106.7 the fan.

[USS Redskins]

Bottom line he isnt winning. Fans can spout all they want about the change but as awesome as he is, Shannhans 11 wins in 2 years is pretty pathetic. Sure, he inherited a bad roster and made moves that made it much worse. There are a very very few small, tiny, bright spots. But is it much to get excited about? IMO, no. But, I will also allow that the injuries and stupid players (Trent and Davis) hampered the year 2 effort.

Anyone who watches this team closely could see that Shannahan in October & November during their 6 game losing streak, was utterly mystified and clueless. He may be a great coach on the field but as a GM?

There is no such thing as a 5 year rebuild in the modern NFL. If Shanny doesnt win next year and make the playoffs then the plan has failed and he should be fired. Plain and Simple.

[GaryGreenMonk]

I hope Synder is at least now seeing how badly he and vinny f'ed up the roster and how much work its taking to repair it.

I hope that is how he is viewing this process and not that shanahan is failing worse than he and vinny did.

[Son of Gadsden]

The post is such trash. I live in southern VA about a mile from NC and our papers are more supportive of the Redskins.

The post ****es when Snyder makes a decision, they ***** when he doesnt, they ***** when a future hall of fame coach makes the decisions and doesnt turn one of the worst managed teams in the NFL into the Packers in one season and a lockout season. They show exactly how little the media knows about the subjects they cover. Seems to be such a problem as time goes on, opinions of journalists. I wish we could just go back to stating facts and shut your damn mouth because no one cares what a reporter thinks, they care what they report.

[hail2skins]

There is no such thing as a 5 year rebuild in the modern NFL. If Shanny doesnt win next year and make the playoffs then the plan has failed and he should be fired. Plain and Simple.

Well, making the playoffs in 2012 is probably still going to be a tall order, particularly if we're starting over with a rookie QB.

Still, it amazes me that folks get their panties in a wad at the notion that Shanahan is still beyond some criticism, even when he appears to be trying to build the team the right way through the draft and making it younger. Facts are is that the overall on-field performance the past two years has NOT been better. And there are still issues of professionalism. The two weedheads. 'Tana throwing a hissy fit and costing us 15 yards at the end of the half. Shortly thereafter, another brilliant example of complete lack of awareness, as we throw a pass into the middle of the field with 15 seconds left and no timeouts.

[1198skinsfuture]

Bottom line he isnt winning. Fans can spout all they want about the change but as awesome as he is, Shannhans 11 wins in 2 years is pretty pathetic. Sure, he inherited a bad roster and made moves that made it much worse. There are a very very few small, tiny, bright spots. But is it much to get excited about? IMO, no. But, I will also allow that the injuries and stupid players (Trent and Davis) hampered the year 2 effort.

Anyone who watches this team closely could see that Shannahan in October & November during their 6 game losing streak, was utterly mystified and clueless. He may be a great coach on the field but as a GM?

There is no such thing as a 5 year rebuild in the modern NFL. If Shanny doesnt win next year and make the playoffs then the plan has failed and he should be fired. Plain and Simple.

and its fans like that keep us in bad shape every yr..."fire the coach, fire the coach, every 2 yrs..." cant fire the coach every yr...sometimes u have to be patient and let these guys work...id much rather build it like he is doing rather than the quick fix like sparano in miami and morris in TB...shanahan didn't forget how to coach on the plane ride from denver to washington...he knows what he's doing...he syas it will take 5 yrs...give him 5 yrs to prove himself...fire the coach every yr gets us ridiculed in the media and laughed at...

[USS Redskins]

I have to agree that making the playoffs with a rookie QB will be tough but Shanny would have to own up to that. I mean, who waits until year 3 to get a QB to run your system? If the other options he had failed, then sorry, its a failure. No other way to look at it.

I hope they can turn it around but I dont share others rosey outlook. This team is still a big mess at 5-11 -there is not other way to spin it.

[SKIN4WAHOOZ]

UnWise Mike....WTF do you know? There is a reason why he is a garbage journalist and not an NFL coach making the big bucks.

And to those whining about MS not winning right away...you are the exact type of person who has put this organization in the position it is in for the past 12 years...you just dont get it!!

[Epochalypse]

Bottom line he isnt winning. Fans can spout all they want about the change but as awesome as he is, Shannhans 11 wins in 2 years is pretty pathetic. Sure, he inherited a bad roster and made moves that made it much worse. There are a very very few small, tiny, bright spots. But is it much to get excited about? IMO, no. But, I will also allow that the injuries and stupid players (Trent and Davis) hampered the year 2 effort.

Anyone who watches this team closely could see that Shannahan in October & November during their 6 game losing streak, was utterly mystified and clueless. He may be a great coach on the field but as a GM?

There is no such thing as a 5 year rebuild in the modern NFL. If Shanny doesnt win next year and make the playoffs then the plan has failed and he should be fired. Plain and Simple.

"Inherited a bad roster and made moves that made it much worse"...really?

[USS Redskins]

and its fans like that keep us in bad shape every yr..."fire the coach, fire the coach, every 2 yrs..." cant fire the coach every yr...sometimes u have to be patient and let these guys work...id much rather build it like he is doing rather than the quick fix like sparano in miami and morris in TB...shanahan didn't forget how to coach on the plane ride from denver to washington...he knows what he's doing...he syas it will take 5 yrs...give him 5 yrs to prove himself...fire the coach every yr gets us ridiculed in the media and laughed at...

So in your opinion, keep a guy for 5 seasons, even if it is apparent that after 3 he is failing. Brilliant! You are a true genius.

I never said fire him now - he should get another year but I do admit that I wouldnt be put out over it. I am not a Shanny fan - he is an old school nfl guy that made a ton of blunders in year 1 that piled on the mess of the team he inherited. I had hoped that Allen would hire a younger hungry guy ala 1981 Joe Gibbs who can coach the modern NFL game.

I dont hope that shanny fails, I hope he succeeds and takes this team to the next level but I just dont see this great leap other fans have.