method man Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Over the past year, I've seen posts about trading players with no trade value for picks. Below is who I believe are players who are nonessential who are legitimate trade pieces (especially good alternatives to giving away more picks for players). Players With Trade Value Brian Orakpo - Although he is showing he is a second tier pass rusher, many still consider him a first tier guy because he's made 2 Pro Bowls. After 3 seasons, he has only 1 double digit sack season. Although his run D has improved, I think it is obvious he is at his best as a 4-3 DE so he would be something both the Rams and Colts (especially the Colts, given old Mathis is a FA) would covet. Jabar Gaffney - I really am hoping he can break 1,000 yards this season so we can market him as a "1,000 yard receiver," which means "starting receiver." He is signed for one more year to a reasonable $3M. Gaffney would be valuable to the Rams, because Gaffney provides another starting receiver opposite Lloyd and the Rams would not be forced to take Blackmon. Players With Little Trade Value Laron Landry - Although he is young and flashed signs of greatness in 2010, he is an impending FA and has major injury issues. If we were to hypothetically trade him, it would be as a franchise player and I doubt teams would want to give up picks or anything of value to take a risky bet on a safety Jamaal Brown - Yes, he is a former Pro Bowler, but I think the rest of the league knows that he is broken down and is average, at best. Given the contract he is signed to, a team would not give up picks for him. Chris Cooley - If we wanted to trade him, we should've done it last year. He had himself a good season last year. He did not score many TDs but he did put up 800+ receiving yards. Now, he is a guy who did not look very good in 2011 (given injuries) when he played, was placed on IR for the 2nd time in 3 seasons and is signed to a hefty contract. Ryan Torain - He has no value. He has looked horrible this season, save for one game. Furthermore, he is a RB and players equivalent to him can be found off other teams' practice squads or FA Santana Moss - He will be 33, had injury issues this season and was passed over by Gaffney as the #1 WR. He is no longer really a deep threat but is more of a slot receiver who is wily enough to read defenses to get open. The Rams already have Amendola and the Colts have Collie to fill this role. Furthermore, neither of those guys is a $5M per year cap hit. DeAngelo Hall - He was resigned to a big deal a couple seasons ago and he has looked average at best this season. I think it is pretty apparent that Josh Wilson is a better cover corner at this point. Furthermore, he has said and done some things that indicate instability to other teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I would not trade Orakpo or Gaffney. Orakpo is a homegrown talent, and if he's traded we don't have an equal player stepping into his slot. Gaffney was an outright steal, and has performed. He hasn't got much value except to us. I don't think we have anyone tradeable, the guys we do have that we could get value for are guys I would not want to move.. Orakpo, Helu, Royster, Williams, Or even backups who have proven to be pretty good, like Palumbus or Willie Smith. They may be tradeable for at least fair value, but it's been so long since we've built any depth, I don't want to dismantle it just as we begin. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan07 Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I would not trade Orakpo or Gaffney.Orakpo is a homegrown talent, and if he's traded we don't have an equal player stepping into his slot. Gaffney was an outright steal, and has performed. He hasn't got much value except to us. I don't think we have anyone tradeable, the guys we do have that we could get value for are guys I would not want to move.. Orakpo, Helu, Royster, Williams, Or even backups who have proven to be pretty good, like Palumbus or Willie Smith. They may be tradeable for at least fair value, but it's been so long since we've built any depth, I don't want to dismantle it just as we begin. ~Bang Agreed. No need to get rid of Rak. Ppl always wanna get rid of our most solid players. And what would we get in return for Rak? Cuz it damn sure wouldn't be a first rd pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I would not trade Orakpo or Gaffney.Orakpo is a homegrown talent, and if he's traded we don't have an equal player stepping into his slot. Gaffney was an outright steal, and has performed. He hasn't got much value except to us. I don't think we have anyone tradeable, the guys we do have that we could get value for are guys I would not want to move.. Orakpo, Helu, Royster, Williams, Or even backups who have proven to be pretty good, like Palumbus or Willie Smith. They may be tradeable for at least fair value, but it's been so long since we've built any depth, I don't want to dismantle it just as we begin. ~Bang His point was to mention players who would have value to the Rams or Colts, to trade up for the #1 pick. It's easy to sit back and say 'I don't want to trade this guy or that guy' but if you want to make a deal like this, you don't get to trade away your trash to do it. If you're not even willing to give up someone like Royster to get an Andrew Luck, then you will likely never get a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappaluvacee Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Trade 101, you trade players under 2 circumstances: 1. You have an aging veteran holding a young stud back 2. You have an abundance of talent at the position and want to strengthen other areas. Washington is void of talent, across the board. They don't fit either circumstance. We must be patient and build in accordance with the long-term plan which seems to be targeting rookies that achieve higher than their draft slot indicates and FA that have produced, but have not been over-hyped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 His point was to mention players who would have value to the Rams or Colts, to trade up for the #1 pick. It's easy to sit back and say 'I don't want to trade this guy or that guy' but if you want to make a deal like this, you don't get to trade away your trash to do it. If you're not even willing to give up someone like Royster to get an Andrew Luck, then you will likely never get a franchise QB. I get his point, but in my mind what makes a guy tradeable is not just what you get in return, but what you leave behind. If we trade Orakpo, who steps in? Andrew Luck? we can't significantly weaken one area to strengthen another, even if it's to make this deal. Consider we are not going to give up just a player or two, we'll give up a player or two and a bevy of picks that we can't use to fill the hole left behind. Gaffney doesn't fall into this so much, but I don't think he has much value to them. He has value to us, and not too many others. I think if we're going to make a deal for that pick, it's going to be a basket full of picks, and not much else. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I know people want to trade to get a QB...but explain again why you trade the few good players you have to get one QB and then start over everywhere else. The logic escapes me..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan4life83 Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 No one to step in and produce like he does. No one near his talent level on this roster. Trading Rak is a STUPID idea and one only half wit fans would even consider. I guarantee neither Allen or Shanny is even remotely considering trading a cornerstone of our young defense. I wish you people would get a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkart Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 :doh: Jabar is just starting to click for us, why...WHY trade him away, and I'm just going forget that you mentioned trading Orakpo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSUSkins24 Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Let's also try to remember that Kerrigan isn't getting pressure all on his own. We need Orakpo on the other side. They are a great combo. One that I wouldn't want to break up. Sometimes I think people just need to sit back, relax, and let the Shanahans do their thing. And like others have said Gaffney really isn't worth much in trade bait. His value is with us. There is a reason why we do the jobs we do, and the Shanahans are coaches. I realize this thread is in theory, but people need to get off Andrew Luck's **** a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted December 26, 2011 Author Share Posted December 26, 2011 I honestly don't think these losses would hurt that greatly in the greater scheme of things. To replace Orakpo, we can sign Ahmad Brooks, who the 9ers may allow to leave with Aldon Smith's emergence. Although Brooks is not the pass rusher Orakpo is, he can give you 6 or 7 sacks while playing better run and pass D. Regarding Gaffney, we are flush with depth at the WR spot so allowing him to leave would actually give Hankerson, Paul and others more PT. Stallworth, by the way, is looking like someone we should bring back next year as depth. One potential confounding factor is that FA is before the draft so there are 2 ways to mitigate the Orakpo loss. Option #1: Make the trade early for the #1 pick. This, I admit, is not likely, because when the #1 pick gets traded it is generally close to the draft Option #2: Sign Brooks and lie to the media that he is going to work in a rotation with Fletcher (who we also resign) and Riley given Brooks originally was a ILB while letting all 3 guys know the real situation... ---------- Post added December-25th-2011 at 08:32 PM ---------- Ideally, I would not give away Orakpo or Gaffney, but, if we can sub in trading a Gaffney for a 2nd or 3rd round pick we can use on an offensive lineman, a potential starting corner or an inside linebacker we can train under Fletcher. Likewise, regarding Orakpo, he is what he is. As long as we are in a 3-4, he is a guy who will be stuck having sub-10 sack seasons while displaying average linebacker skills. That is a good starter, but that is NOT a franchise cornerstone. I'd rather have my 2013 first round pick, which may be a top-15 pick as the QB adapts to the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 I wouldn't trade Orakpo for anything right now. Him and Kerrigan are going to be a fearsome duo for years to come, especially once they both have a full year and offseason under their belts. The only guy maybe worth trading might, MIGHT, be Royster. He might fetch something like a 4th, or possibly a 3rd with another 100 yard game, but honestly I'd rather keep him and Helu AND resign Hightower for a 3 headed beast. Put Torain on the block and see if anyone bites (probably not). I seriously get shivers thinking about what our two-back sets could do if we also had RGIII (it could happen...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Creating more holes is not a good idea for a team that's rebuilding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted December 26, 2011 Author Share Posted December 26, 2011 Creating more holes is not a good idea for a team that's rebuilding As illustrated, we can get by doing this without creating holes. Furthermore, it is worth sacrificing a few pieces to get a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoe Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 I get his point, but in my mind what makes a guy tradeable is not just what you get in return, but what you leave behind.If we trade Orakpo, who steps in? Andrew Luck? we can't significantly weaken one area to strengthen another, even if it's to make this deal. Consider we are not going to give up just a player or two, we'll give up a player or two and a bevy of picks that we can't use to fill the hole left behind. Gaffney doesn't fall into this so much, but I don't think he has much value to them. He has value to us, and not too many others. I think if we're going to make a deal for that pick, it's going to be a basket full of picks, and not much else. ~Bang Thank you. Who steps in for Rak if we trade him? I wouldn't be completely against this move, but you just don't trade at a position that we don't have a replacement for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dro89 Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 orakpo is in the top 10 for most production as a pass rusher this season. Watch tape don't watch stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amm0409 Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 I think we need to keep rebuilding (draft especially). I can understand the trade bait with Orakpo, but I think its more of a disadvantage (because, how is this guy really going to perform, meaning draft guy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Levi Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 I actually think orakpo might bring a first. But why trade him?! We have VERY few starters any other teams in the league would want. Trading any of them would be a terrible idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytrain98 Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Fans always overrate the trade value of guys on their own team. Ain't nobody going to give us a damn thing for a 31 year-old Jabar Gaffney. Well, maybe a sixth round pick. Ain't nothing special about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 I get his point, but in my mind what makes a guy tradeable is not just what you get in return, but what you leave behind.If we trade Orakpo, who steps in? Andrew Luck? we can't significantly weaken one area to strengthen another, even if it's to make this deal. Consider we are not going to give up just a player or two, we'll give up a player or two and a bevy of picks that we can't use to fill the hole left behind. Gaffney doesn't fall into this so much, but I don't think he has much value to them. He has value to us, and not too many others. I think if we're going to make a deal for that pick, it's going to be a basket full of picks, and not much else. ~Bang Well, if it meant bringing in a franchise QB, I wouldn't let worrying about how to replace Orakpo dissuade me from such a trade. As for how to replace him, for one thing, you are creating a lot of cap space to do so. Not in 2012 (the net cap effect would be a cost of about 1 mil to us) but in the future. You would clear over 5 mil in 2013 and then's due to be a FA and will command a star-level salary. So, down the road you have a good amount of cap space to use either on another pass rusher or on another area of the team. Personally, I don't deal him unless we get first round value+ for him. That probably won't happen, but he hasn't played poorly, there's no real reason he should be worth less than the pick we used on him, imo. The only real reason I would entertain him being part of these kind of trade discussions if it became, say,three 1s and two 2s for Luck vs two 1s, a 2 and a 4 plus Orakpo, as an example. Again, that's probably not how it would go. But I would keep an open mind about including him. Also for the record, I disagree with the OP in that I think Indy would rather keep Mathis (who's 30 and stil highly productive) and fix other areas rather than seeking Orakpo. And the Rams have Long and Quinn, so I doubt he would be a the top of their wish list, either. Gafney, however, does make all kinds of sense for the Rams. I don't think he holds anything close to 1st or 2nd round value, but I do think he's a nice trade chip. And I don't think he is so valuable to us, either. He's signed for one more year and we shouldn't really be thinking about re-signing a player like him at his age. He's a nice player, but we should be in the business of giving big chunks of cap space to aging #4 WRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 The OP has a point about Orakpo, He is probably the one player we have that might actually get the attention of either the Rams or Colts and get us good value. I like Rak would prefer to keep him but I'd be happy with a deal of our 1st and Rak for Luck. BTW What would you all think is reasonable for a trade of just Draft picks? I figure if we pick 7th it would take our 1st, 2d and 3d in 2012 and a 1 and 2 in 2013 and a 2 in 2014. Looking at it that way Rak and our 1st this year looks a bit more appealing (maybe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted December 26, 2011 Author Share Posted December 26, 2011 The problem is we have to compete with Cleveland for the QBs. They can offer 2 #1s (one being a higher pick than ours) in the 2012 draft, which we just can't do. The only way to compete is to offer Orakpo. The only player with as much trade value on that team is Joe Haden and Orakpo has way more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddub52 Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Rak isnt going anywhere. Their plan on drafting Kerrigan was to get a pass rusher on the other side of Rak. What makes you think they will then trade the person they drafted another player to compliment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabsuz Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 How come whenever a player starts doing well we instantly want to trade him for a 4th round pick in 2014? I have no idea why people slam Orakpo so much wishing he was traded, we draft a stud pass rusher who is about to 3 peat pro bowl appearances, fans will be calling for Kerrigans head after the rookie hype is done because its never enough sacks. Why trade for a player, who has a 1,000 yard receiving season first year here, and we think about trading him for garbage? Landry flashes how elite he can be for us and he gets injured and we want to trade him? Or Trent playing well but he smoked weed so we should deal him for a 2nd round pick in his 2nd year here. I don't really advocate any of our star players moving to be honest, we should let them actually pan out for us before we cast them off for compensatory picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsGuy Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 To use a digging analogy, if you have a hole in your yard, you don't fill it in by digging a second hole in your yard and using that dirt for the first hole. You may have filled in the first hole, but now you have another hole. You've accomplished nothing. The same with team building. You don't strengthen one position on your team (be it a player position or a draft position) by significantly weakening another position. You aren't accomplishing anything but trading one issue for another. Trading Orakpo might net the team something positive, but it will also weaken that area he plays and that will suddenly be a problem. We don't want to start chasing our tails like that (to use a cat analogy ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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