GHH laid totally bare with his fanhood on the line: Why it's best for our team to lose out the rest of the 2011 season.

[KDawg]

Demarcus Russell or Vince Young or David Carr... In fact, the best QB in the league right now was picked in the 20's and arguably the second best was picked in round five... You want to go back in time and trade Orakpo for Sanchez? Drew Brees was a second rounder. In fact, that high number one qb hasn't made many Superbowl appearances lately. On the other hand, Bradford, Stafford and Newton all look quite promising.

Let's be fair, here...

Andrew Luck is on another planet than any of these guys. Sanchez, in my opinion, isn't even as good a prospect as Griffin or Tannehill. But you're right, it's far from a guarantee. And a guy like Kirk Cousins or Nick Foles or Ryan Lindley may turn out to be the second best QB in this draft class, though I don't see it happening

[Skinsinparadise]

I just can't see the Dolphins and Colts winning more than 2 games and if so the Colts have learned the power of a franchise QB why would they give it up, and the Dolphins plagues with QBs is as famous as ours. So yeah i don't see Luck in the equation no matter what happens. And I get the whole Eli Manning style hold out possibility but considering the Dolphins in particular, playing for that team in South Florida isn't exactly the worst thing to happen to a player, so its tough for me to see his dad say anybody but that team.

[HailGreen28]

snip.

Teams with good management don't worry about draft order. They worry about how their team and individual players are performing. The Steelers and Packers didn't need top 5 picks to get franchise QBs. They had good coaching and a good front office.

Watching our team this point in the season, has been painful and frustrating the past few years. But I think things will improve with Shanny in charge, and Danny out of the picture football wise. It just takes time. That's what I'm telling myself lately.

[Mr. Sinister]

I just can't see the Dolphins and Colts winning more than 2 games and if so the Colts have learned the power of a franchise QB why would they give it up, and the Dolphins plagues with QBs is as famous as ours. So yeah i don't see Luck in the equation no matter what happens

Honestly, I think that the Colts are a bagillion times more likely to shop that pick and get a package deal in return to get more picks than they are to outright draft Luck and call it a day. I definitely think the Dolphins will take him though.

[MrJL]

we're playing Miami and Minnesota. Assuming the suck for Luck campaign is an actual thing and ROger Goodall doesn't strip teams of draft picks if he thinks it's happening(it's a form of rigging fellas) Miami would never let us lose, and Minnesota would be foolish to because of how valuable the pick is. After all Luck's valuable so even if you don't need the QB the pick would be worth something in trade.

Basically now that seven weeks into the NFL season we have three wins and there's two teams with zero there's no way we can lose enough to get hte top pick.

Also, losing can be a hard habit to break.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

You don't win Wars by quitting battles.

I don't look at it as "quitting the battle".

Its more of a strategic retreat.

[SkinsGuy]

Uhmmm, you threw out some names of high QB busts.

I merely said I wasn't getting into a slanging match with you over bust/ success' over the years.

Please keep on track with what you wrote and I responded to instead of twisting my reply around into something it wasn't.

Thank you.

Hail.

I keep fine track, and the fact is you don't want to "get into it" because you know it blows your position out of the water. Having a pick in the top 5 is no more a guarantee than having one in the teens.

What happened to all the folks around here that always said 'winning cures all'?

[Operations]

Fortunately for us and unfortunately for you and similar so-called "fans", Mike Shanahan does not have a loser's mentality. You build a long-term winner by building a tradition of winning and excellence, and by drafting well (regardless of draft position). Gibbs went 8-8 in his first year, then built on that momentum and won the Super Bowl the next.

Playing to lose and putting all your hopes on a high draft pick, who can easily be a bust or get injured, is just stupid.

Herm Edwards was not a great coach, but he was 100% right about one thing - YOU PLAY. TO WIN. THE GAME. Period.

I suggest you become a Dolphins or Colts fans. They'll lose 13-16 games this year, which would make you ecstatic.

[Dan T.]

As a fan, losing hurts. When losing reaches into years, what do you do? You can remain a fan and suffer through it all. You can let your ardor for the game slip, so the losses don't sting so much. Or you can rationalize. I think this whole losing on purpose thing is rationalizing. No team has tanked a season in order to draft The Next Can't Miss Kid. You know why? Because there are no guarantees. As kleese points out, even when the Can't Miss Kid is better than last year's Can't Miss Kid, there are no guarantees.

I don't question your fanhood. You are like a battered spouse, seeking relief from 10+ years of abuse. So you rationalize. Now the losses won't hurt you so much. Good for you.

As for me, I still suffer through each loss. Call me a blockhead. Or a fan.

[KingGibbs]

If losing out lands us a franchise QB and stabilizes that position for 10 plus years then I'm all for it. Look around people. If you don't have a franchise QB in this league you are going to be a .500 team at best and spinning your wheels year after year because that aforementioned .500 record prevents you from landing that QB in the draft.

There is something about a franchise QB that raises their teammates level of play and it's not just the talent aspect of that QB, but it's the mental aspect, knowing that they have a guy under center that can get it done.

Not only that, but a franchise QB also raises the level of enthusiasm of the fanbase which plays into homefield advantage and Lord knows that Fedex is anything but.

I know there is goiing to be that "How dare you" crowd that simply can't look at our opinions objectively and will resort to name-calling and quite frankly I believe if you really want what's best for the Redskins and the fans, then hoping for a franchise QB is our only, well, hope.

[Brotherz]

GHH,

I don't have any problem with your feeling this way and I completely understand what you are rooting for. I just don't see it happening unfortunately. I really do see this team int he 6-10, or possibly even 7-9 range which is going to keep us as laughing stocks in the NFL and put us int he race for Kellen Moore not Andrew Luck.

I literally see this season going the worst possible scenario whereby we win a couple close ball games against miami, maybe minnesota, and maybe even a shocker against the jets or something. I think philly changes its course completely thank to us (like the giants did a few years ago) and they win the division and have nothing to play for in our season ender.

I see us winning 5-7 games. Again, that is enough to keep us from the elite QB's in the draft while keeping us firmly in the basement of the league as a perrenial joke. Picking from 10 or lower, we have basically no chance at luck. The reality is Miami or the Colts are taking him and not looking back. With the rookie wage scale now in place, its not even debatable. You can't trade away Peyton Manning at 23 years old for draft picks. You just can't. Since that is the case, the real play is to try and grab Landry Jones. Arguably the trade price for him will be even higher than Luck because once Luck is gone, he is all that is left. Sure, you can get Moore, or Barkley etc but it is undeniable that that is the second tier and that is when we are int he position of making a big mistake.

I agree with your sentiment. Its essentially "suck for luck" 6 weeks too late. we aren't getting Luck. We probably aren't getting Landry Jones. We are probably getting Kellen Moore. I think we could get him even if we went 8-8. So it doesn't really matter because God knows we ain't going 8-8.

[KDawg]

I keep fine track, and the fact is you don't want to "get into it" because you know it blows your position out of the water. Having a pick in the top 5 is no more a guarantee than having one in the teens.

What happened to all the folks around here that always said 'winning cures all'?

I don't agree with tanking, but winning doesn't cure all in this situation, either.

This team isn't talented enough to go 12-4, 11-5 or in my opinion, 10-6. That's winning. Our ceiling is 9-7 in my opinion, right now. Which is a mediocre season, not a winning season. What does falling into a few wins do for us? Is John Beck/Rex Grossman really a QB duo you want to move forward with? Is our depth really something that you believe could make us a competitive team? We need a lot of things, the most glaring need of all is a franchise QB... And I actually like John Beck. I think he'll serve as a SOLID backup for us, to be honest. And he's got two years left on his contract.

Falling into some fluke wins with mediocre talent just makes us worse in the long run.

Winning cures all if you have a good team. We have a gritty team, I disagree with people that say we don't. We have a team that cares... But we don't have a ton of talent right now. Going mediocre isn't winning. 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 is just plain mediocre.

[Mr. Sinister]

As a fan, losing hurts. When losing reaches into years, what do you do? You can remain a fan and suffer through it all. You can let your ardor for the game slip, so the losses don't sting so much. Or you can rationalize. I think this whole losing on purpose thing is rationalizing. No team has tanked a season in order to draft The Next Can't Miss Kid. You know why? Because there are no guarantees. As kleese points out, even when the Can't Miss Kid is better than last year's Can't Miss Kid, there are no guarantees.

I don't question your fanhood. You are like a battered spouse, seeking relief from 10+ years of abuse. So you rationalize. Now the losses won't hurt you so much. Good for you.

BFS - Battered Fan Syndrome:(

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Two things that are getting lost in translation here.

1. Although I openly want us to lose, I aren't openly advocating the players give up and 'tank' the season. I think we'll lose regardless because of all the factors surrounding this team. I wasn't sat there Sunday watching the screen and listening to the radio broadcast cheering all our screw ups. But by the same token I wasn't cheering our scores. Nor was I upset that we lost again.

I've said from the summer on here the perfect scenario for me, unless we put together a run because of the QB, instead of despite him, which has rapidly become apparent would be the later, would be for this team to play it's youth, play hard every game, but just come up short 9 times out of 10. Growing together as they go and taking their licks that will serve them well in their pro education.

I want us to ultimately finish with a L at the final gun. But I aren't advocating totally giving up and 'tanking' to get there. The level we're at, coupled with all the injuries, will take care of that.

Sadly, although I understand as the whole concept of wanting your team to lose goes against the fan ethos and sport in general; to most people, you need the W to constitute success. They just can't see progress in a losing season.

2. Outside of Luck, who's as close to a guaranteed success as you could possibly get, I've never come close to saying it would be a sure fire success if we lost out and drafted one of the top QB's high.

But if you can't see that it increases your chances of top level talent the higher you draft, then I don't know how to begin trying to explain that to you.

And throwing numbers about high picks and SB's, or lack there of, is totally asinine when you consider most of those players your dismissing have, over the years, consistently had their teams challenging for the major prize. Season in. Season out.

I'd rather that than a merely good enough QB that will take us to the show once behind a good D/ running game what ever, but not have sustained success over a duration.

Hail.

[Dan T.]

My sincere hope is that Andrew Luck stays at Stanford for his senior season, totally ****ing over all the Suck for Luck fan-boys across the NFL nation.

Best. Schadenfreude. Ever.

[Henry]

I think some of you guys really like to over-intellectualize this stuff.

I think Burgold's response was the best one. I'm not into rooting for draft pick positioning. In my opinion, that's sad and pathetic and if I ever get to that point I'll turn off the TV and find something better to do with my time.

[Dan T.]

I think some of you guys really like to over-intellectualize this stuff.

I think Burgold's response was the best one. I'm not into rooting for draft pick positioning. In my opinion, sad and pathetic and if I ever get to that point I'll turn off the TV and find something better to do with my time.

If Burgold's was the best, Henry, yours is a close second.

[Skinsinparadise]

Honestly, I think that the Colts are a bagillion times more likely to shop that pick and get a package deal in return to get more picks than they are to outright draft Luck and call it a day. I definitely think the Dolphins will take him though.

Maybe but its tough to count on. the Colts have shown to themselves and the league what a wreck they are without a franchise QB. And to give up potentially the next Manning, hoping that there are plenty of miles left in the current version, a 36 year old QB with a career threatening injury, i am not sure we can count on that.

[Goingforburgundy]

Also, losing can be a hard habit to break.

Tell that to the Lions. Their past 13 games they are 11-2 or something like that.

GHH im with you 100% and I use the Lions as the prime example. They are the prime example of letting their young guys play. The were the definition of Suck the past decade. They finally hit rock bottom in 08 and took Stafford 1st overall in 09 who looks like a stud this year. If we can finally we Terry Bradshaw John Elway Peyton Manning.

Since 1980, there has been 16 QB's drafted first overall with 8 being at least pro bowlers. The 16 includes Bradford Stafford and Newton

[GWinSkins83]

Then why watch at all? Why be here? Just go away and come back in January and read the final win/loss records and act accordingly (cartwheels if they are 3-13, teeth gritting if they are 8-8).

I mean, surely as a '30-year fan', you aren't happy to watch them lose, even if you think it is necessary in some twisted way.

So why put yourself through what must be torture to watch every Sunday and cheer for your team to do bad? I wouldn't do that, even if I thought it was in their best interests to lose (and I don't think it is).

You must have something better to do in that time.

Because its a process and people want to see it through. Being 3-13 is better than 7-9. I'm sorry but this team needs superstar potential. We need lots of it. We a QB to be the face of this team. London Fletcher is the face of this team and that is sad. I love the skins and hope we can win a Superbowl before Shanny is gone. But the only way I see that happening is if we hit rock bottom. Enough with is just trying to squeek out meaningless wins and false hopes. I rather us hit rock bottom and then build up and have our run. It will never happen when we keep on finishing 7-9. Look at last year we won vs the Jags at the end of the year for what. What good did that do. Most of the team last year aint even on the roster. We could have easily been 5 or 6 spot and traded with ATL and got all those picks. We would have still had the same draft too but this year we could be looking at 2 1st rounds. I think sometimes you have to eat some losses to get better in the long run. This is a marathon not a sprint with this team. And can't no one question my loyality with the Redskins. I still rock my Hats and gear even when we lose. I am married to the skins but guess what we have to see bad times to get better as an team.

[SWFLSkins]

I don't look at it as "quitting the battle".

Its more of a strategic retreat.

Nice name for going backwards. = ;-}

[Henry]

I think there is a difference between accepting the fact that we need to take our lumps during the rebuilding process and outright rooting for the team to lose.

If people in this thread are talking about the former I'm ok with that. It's the latter that I don't get.

[SWFLSkins]

BFS - Battered Fan Syndrome:(

Or Bull ****ing ****

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

There are 3 reasons not to lose out:

1: Losing out and going 3-13 might give us the #5 pick in the draft and take both Luck and RGIII off the board. If you tank that badly, what did you get out of it if you have to trade down and draft Ryan Tannehill anyway?

2: Losing out and going 3-13 (especially if it's a blatant tank) might make a potential franchise QB not want to play for us, ala Manning or Elway.

3: Losing out could make the team quit on the coach and organization.

Now, I'd like to get a franchise QB, and a better pick would give us more leverage in, say, a blockbuster trade for Luck. But there's too much danger in tanking as a strategy. If you wanted Luck, it would have been better to trade every decent player except for Rak and Williams and Davis, go in with low-rounders and UDFAs Oldfan style and suck all the way to 1-15.

I'd feel a lot better if we went 8-8 and Ditkaed for Luck than if we went 3-13 and traded 2 firsts and a 3rd.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Nice name for going backwards. = ;-}

Taking a few steps backwards to take a gigantic leap forward. :2cents: