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GHH laid totally bare with his fanhood on the line: Why it's best for our team to lose out the rest of the 2011 season.


Gibbs Hog Heaven

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I was initially going to put what follows in kleese's Beck thread ( http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?357097-Very-Impressed-With-John-Beck-And-I-Think-He-Can-Earn-a-Spot-Next-Year ); but I'm feeling so strongly in the foreign concept that follows that after quoting and replying to a bunch of posts in one post, it seemed more appropriate to put all those thoughts into one.

This is just about the hardest thread I've EVER made. Not because of the inevitable backlash from the 'homers' out there who can't begin to contemplate this concept from, in their minds, a so called 'fan.' (Which I get, I truly do. And under normal circumstances, wouldn't argue with. But these aren't normal circumstances.). But because it's NEVER easy, as a fan of a sports team, to openly root for one's own team to lose. Besides which it's just not the done thing. It goes against the whole ethos of sport and being emotionally invested in something that to many is the most important thing in their lives outside their own faith and family. And that's certainly been the case for me these past 30 years and probably always will be, rightly or wrongly, until the day I'm no longer on this Earth.

But that's exactly where I'm at with the 2011 Washington Redskins. Wanting them to lose out the rest of the season. Taking one full in the mouth for the next 10 weeks until we can hardly stand; but safe in the knowledge a mere 4 months later we'd be able to finally add that elusive piece we've searched high and low for these past 37 years to no avail. Losing 10 battles, to ultimately be in a position to win the war again.

I have a signature bet thread going with addicted that most of you will of seen ( http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?353013-GHH-addicted-2011-final-record-signature-bet.-Non-believers-and-homers-of-the-B-amp-G-unite! ), within which I'm down on record as predicting a 4 win season a week or so before the season started. (Not that it's a great deal of difference, but It was actually 4/5 wins in the original thread the challenge came from, but he wanted to maximize his chances and run with 4. And I'm too proud (or stupid) to back down from a challenge, so it went into the books.). Now that prediction wasn't born out of the same want as where I'm now at, hoping we'd lose. Hell, I went into this year actively PRAYING addicted won that bet and our Redskins would shock the World and tear it up with a playoff season and beyond. I just never, hand on heart, believed we were in a position to sadly do anything like that. One of the worst QB situations in the entire league, as has been proven to our cost, protected by an improved, but still sub-standard pro line, on an O that couldn't score for ****. With a massive influx of new players right across the board, many young and relatively to totally inexperienced in pro terms. And a kicking game that at the time looked a shambles. I saw a lot of good and progress coming from the 2011 season for our future prospects, but not in the form of many W's.

Fast forward to the present, and a Washington Redskins team sat at 3-3 after 6 games. Now, if those three wins had been achieved because of, instead of despite the QB, I'd still now be screaming with the loudest voice out there for the Redskins to win the next 10 games and march on toward Indianapolis. But it's been the COMPLETE opposite of that. And with the best will in the World, the present incumbent is little better in that regard than what went before. (I won't debate the why's and wherefore's of Beck again. That's been done to death on here, along with his predecessor in the job.).

So all things considered, the single worst thing that can happen to this ball club IMHO is to win ONE more game this year, never mind another 4 or 5 to finish around a catastrophic .500. (Cue the 'homer' hoards with pitch forks in hand screaming for GHH's fan card and head. And not necessarily in that order. :redpunch: ).

I've been a Redskin fan for 30 years. I've been exceptionally fortunate enough to grow up through Gibbs first go-around, and those three shinny silvery thingies in the lobby. But you know what I've never seen through that time? What this franchise has not had for the entire duration of my life since SonyJ hung it up the year I was born, 1974? A true, franchise QB. 37 years of waiting for the most important person on this or any other team. That's nothing short of CRIMINAL. And a terrible indictment on the complete comedy show this organizations been for the best part of two decades of that period.

I'm absolutely SICK to the back teeth of all the good, hard work in other areas continually falling down at the hands of the man under center. (Again, this year, the D working it's ass off and doing more than enough to win ball games. Only to be let down by the O lead by the ineptitude of the man that leads it.). I'm absolutely SICK of being mired in around .500 mediocrity or worse, all because we don't have a top echelon leader that can carry his team home. We're continually stuck in a vicious cycle of mediocrity, winning just enough games to continually give us false hope. But just enough to keep us out of the top slots in the draft to rectify our glaring need that's been there for WAY too long now.

You can't consistently win in the modern day NFL without a real good talent under center. You may ride a running game or great D to one or two years of success, but everything starts and ends with the QB. The consistent SB challenging teams all have one. And we have an opportunity to not just finally land ours. But to bag us a top one.

Next spring, there's two or three TOP prospects more than likely coming out of college. One of whom is almost Universally regarded as one of the best prospects to EVER enter the pro-game. I know, there's "no such thing as a guaranteed superstar QB. It's a risk not worth taking. We need to play safe and re-stock other needs first" blah blah blah. Well there's a risk with ANY player in the draft, at ANY position. And that hype surrounding that young man isn't unfounded. Even the most casual, novice football fan can see that from watching him play for just 10 minutes. Like the guy he's being compared to in Indianapolis, he's a complete game changer that would make this or any other franchise instantly better over night. (And please don't tell me Peyton's only got one SB under his belt. The Colts went from a complete National joke before landing him, to perennial divisional winners and SERIOUS SB contenders for a decade and more. Are you telling me you WOULDN'T want that? Even at a price? SERIOUSLY?).

There's other good QB's of course in what will probably turn out to be the strongest class ever coming out next April. But why settle for merely good, when we could potentially have a great one? We're busy putting everything else in place for the long haul. Why not reach for the stars and go with the very best you can get rather than just settling just because it makes you feel better to have 6/7/8 wins?

This season is all but dead. You can be as upbeat and optimistic as you like, but the harsh reality is our season is all but over. The injuries to an already under-talented roster has seen to that. Confidence is at rock bottom, as was quickly in evidence Sunday when the Panthers got on a roll.

But this team is FAR from dead. We're building something that could be very special here over the next few years, with some very talented young players who are learning as they go. The defense is already drastically improved from last year alone. Just think what sort a position we'd be in if we could draft in one of the very top slots and bag one of the very best QB's coming out; allied to a top WR in FA, and a top corner high in the draft. Follow that with upgrading the line, and suddenly things start moving ahead of schedule and the sky's the limit going forward.

I honestly don't see us winning any more than 1/2 games max the rest of the way this season. We just aren't there yet, however you'd like to spin it otherwise. And that was before these horrid injuries. So I'd rather finish 3-13, and leave us in the best possible position for Luck or one or two other top guys; than start adding one or two or more wins to that and finish with a QB that's good, but not the great one we MORE than deserve after 37 years of waiting.

So here we are, full circle to the beginning of this thread with the hardest post I've ever written on these boards. Openly, honestly putting it out there I want my team to lose out the rest of the season for what I perceive as the better good- the long term future of my team over the superficial high of short term success.

Feel free to flame me for wanting our team to lose out. Nail me to a stake and throw rocks at this un-Redskin fan. Not that it will bother those that do, but to conflicted to the point of this on your team after years and years of this Hell is a horrid thing to deal with.

But as you do, ask yourself, hand on heart, if your not truly sick of the continued mediocrity and being an also ran year in, year out too. We have a chance to rectify that. To finally add the top notch piece to all the over great work that's going into this rebuild to take us over the top. And wanting such doesn't make you any less of a fan than those that don't. Whatever they scream at you.

Sometimes you have to swallow your pride and take two steps backward to take one step forward.

Hail.

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Well thought-out.

To the idiots who just respond along the lines of you not being a fan, well, they're idiots. Your posting history, let alone this post itself, indicates otherwise.

I hate losing. I don't want to lose any more games. However, if we're not going to win the Super Bowl, then I just don't give a **** at this point regarding this year. At the end of last year, injuries forced us to play our young guys, and that was good experience for them. Hell, they even won the Jaguars game.

I want to beat Dallas and I want to stomp the Eagles. Anything else is whatever.

If we hadn't won that Jaguars game, then we could've been fifth overall instead of tenth. I'm in no way complaining about our draft, hell Kerrigan by himself was worth it, but if we're fifth overall, then we get that call from Atlanta and that bounty of picks. Who knows where we are now if we have all of those.

I know where you're coming from, GHH, and while I may not be thrilled with the idea of losing out, I'm not throwing pitchforks or torches or whatever, either.

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I have no problem with a fan hoping that his team loses out if he believes that the team will benefit in the long run. However, after this past offseason, I had more hope for this team long term than I have had for a very long time, and that hope hasn't diminished one bit.

I like what I saw from John Beck. So did Mike Shanahan.

The rash of injuries will force some younger players into the lineup. In a rebuilding year, that's a good idea.

I don't follow college football, but I took a look at some of the videos of the QBs coming out, and wasn't wowed by any of them.

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What!!!!! lose games!!!!! i want your fan card and your head now!!!!!

In all seriousness i was having this discussion with my dad yesterday. We are not a playoff team and IF we do somehow manage to get there i cant see us going past the Wild card. Now i cant stand to root for a Redskin loss but more wins equal a worse draft pick, so if we are not going to be in contention,whats the point? I say put ALL the rookies out there and let this be their learning year to better prepare them for next season. By the time we groom our QB that we draft, they should be either the playmakers we hoped them to be or busts and therefore no longer on the roster.

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I have no problem with a fan hoping that his team loses out if he believes that the team will benefit in the long run. However, after this past offseason, I had more hope for this team long term than I have had for a very long time, and that hope hasn't diminished one bit.

I like what I saw from John Beck. So did Mike Shanahan.

The rash of injuries will force some younger players into the lineup. In a rebuilding year, that's a good idea.

I don't follow college football, but I took a look at some of the videos of the QBs coming out, and wasn't wowed by any of them.

I'd love to still have that hope Of. I really would.

And I'd love to have the same unwavering faith in Beck that you do and be proved right on it.

But I sadly have neither, as much as I try. I see nothing in him that doesn't explain why he's spent his career on the sidelines. The best option we have. But looking at the competition, that's saying VERY little. Totally with you on the young guys playing BTW. As you know, I'd of had them out there sooner. The more experience they get now the better. And we'll truly know just what part they can play going forward by seeing them in live action now.

I'll leave next years draft class alone as that's a subjective issue. I am surprised not ONE of them has 'wowed' you, but I respect your opinion as much as anyone's on here.

Hail.

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Thanks NC man.

Not that I'm looking for it, but it's appreciated to what will doubtless follow.

Hail.

Don't whine when you know, as a 30+ year fan, that what you are suggesting is inappropriate.

Seems to me you are having more of a struggle of conscience than a struggle with "homer" fans. My guess is despite you position here, you will be cheering every Redskin TD,every sack they get, every INT they make. You won't be able to help yourself. :)

Nevertheless, you do what you want to. All I ask of you "suck for Luck" people is keep it to yourselves. I don't want to come to a Redskin FAN BOARD, and see thread after thread of folks cheerleading defeats, and saying how wonderful it is we are losing. :doh:

I don't want to see ES sink to that pathetic state. So how about you curb your enthusiasm for collapse and keep it to yourself.

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..... I say put ALL the rookies out there and let this be their learning year to better prepare them for next season. By the time we groom our QB that we draft, they should be either the playmakers we hoped them to be or busts and therefore no longer on the roster.

Man after my own heart.

But the HC has his pride and will sadly stick with the vets. he can trust the most as long as is possible.

Hail.

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Don't whine when you know, as a 30+ year fan, that what you are suggesting is inappropriate.

. I don't want to come to a Redskin FAN BOARD, and see thread after thread of folks cheerleading defeats, and saying how wonderful it is we are losing. :doh:

I don't want to see ES sink to that pathetic state. So how about you curb your enthusiasm for collapse andkeep it to yourself.

Or you can just ignore it. There are positive threads that hurt my eyes more than this.

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Well thought-out.

To the idiots who just respond along the lines of you not being a fan, well, they're idiots. Your posting history, let alone this post itself, indicates otherwise.

I hate losing. I don't want to lose any more games. However, if we're not going to win the Super Bowl, then I just don't give a **** at this point regarding this year. At the end of last year, injuries forced us to play our young guys, and that was good experience for them. Hell, they even won the Jaguars game.

I want to beat Dallas and I want to stomp the Eagles. Anything else is whatever.

If we hadn't won that Jaguars game, then we could've been fifth overall instead of tenth. I'm in no way complaining about our draft, hell Kerrigan by himself was worth it, but if we're fifth overall, then we get that call from Atlanta and that bounty of picks. Who knows where we are now if we have all of those.

I know where you're coming from, GHH, and while I may not be thrilled with the idea of losing out, I'm not throwing pitchforks or torches or whatever, either.

Cold thing is if it was us ATL had called we probably still have the same draft as we did. Some said Kerrigan was a reach. And Jenkins too. And this year we would have an extra 1st. We would have been able to get Luck no problem. One funking win changed everything for us. And is down right sad!

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Seems to me you are having more of a struggle of conscience than a struggle with "homer" fans. My guess is despite you position here, you will be cheering every Redskin TD,every sack they get, every INT they make. You won't be able to help yourself. :)

Good job you didn't watch the game with me Sunday then as I was COMPLETELY the opposite of that. If you knew me, you'd know I don't flippantly say things just for the sake of saying them. I believe what I believe in, and stand and fall by those convictions.

And as much as it 'conflicts' with the ethos of being a fan, I believe that the best thing as a fan and for my team is to step back before we can step forward, so to speak.

Hail.

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I agree with the whole lose-out plan you have, but has one if not two major caveats. Both the Dolphins and Colts figured this out already. They planned to suck before the season. They worked at making sure they suck, and now they are neck and neck in a race for that no.1 pick. We are already 3 wins ahead of both teams. Both of which i believe will have a very strong possibility of going winless this season. Another problem is that this team isnt bad enough to lose out. You think Fletcher wants to lose? We have winners on this team now, we arent going winless the rest of the way. Its just not happening.

We have been putting bandaids on broken arms for 30 years now. Sure they stop the bleeding, but the bandaids dont fix the underlying problem: the arm is ****ing broken.

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I have no problem with what you are saying from an intellectual point of view, but for me, football is meant to be an emotional release and complex escapism. So, there's only one way I could buy into what you're selling. That's not too watch and walk away. Being a realist is meant for other aspects of my life... football is about the impossible and dreaming and screaming for the home team and buying a box of Cracker Jacks because ya gotta have heart and ya can't ever quit.

I respect what you're saying and what you've been pretty consistant about since before preseason and I can even acknowledge a degree of truth and logic to it, but it ain't for me. For the reason I pointed out and for the reason that the draft doesn't make you an instant winner. Look how many busts... look at how high Heath Shuler brought us or Akili Smith, David Carr, or Ryan Leaf brought their teams.

You may be right, but sports isn't about right. It's about passion, miracles, and vicarious thrills and supporting your guys. It's an area of our lives where we get to be irrational and stupid. Blind homerism is laudable.

So, I'll root for the guys to win because otherwise there's no game.

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We futzed things up by going 3-1. It's too late now. The Colts/Rams look as if one win would be an adventure for them right now.

As regards the very top spot I sadly make you right.

But the key there, certainly pertaining to Luck, who we can more or less guarantee will go #1, is Miami for me. St Louis, and to a lesser extent Indy with the injury and age of Peyton, have their man already; and as such might just be way more open to trading out the position. (Maybe even Bradford comes into play if it's the Rams for a lesser cost.).

That's another reason why I believe it's imperative to get as close to that top spot as possible. To either strengthen our trading hand, or to take one of the other one or two guys that are a cut above the rest.

Hail.

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As regards the very top spot I sadly make you right.

But the key there, certainly pertaining to Luck, who we can more or less guarantee will go #1, is Miami for me. St Louis, and to a lesser extent Indy with the injury and age of Peyton, have their man already; and as such might just be way more open to trading out the position. (Maybe even Bradford comes into play if it's the Rams for a lesser cost.).

That's another reason why I believe it's imperative to get as close to that top spot as possible. To either strengthen our trading hand, or to take one of the other one or two guys that are a cut above the rest.

Hail.

Yeah, but that also would mean that they hold all the cards. They can choose who they do/do not want to do business with if they want to shop that pick, and I think that there are many teams out there that have more to offer/and are more willing to offer more than we can.

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Maybe Cincinnati will be our trading partner for the 2012 draft with their three 1st round picks and finally we get that man under center we've been wanting forever now it seems. We can't run the ball either, which anyone with a clue will you is still incredibly important in the modern NFL. I'm as skitzo as the next guy I suppose when it comes to this team and trying to find a measure of where we are and how far we have yet to go.

Hang in there GHH...

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Maybe Cincinnati will be our trading partner for the 2012 draft with their three 1st round picks and finally we get that man under center we've been wanting forever now it seems. We can't run the ball either, which anyone with a clue will you is still incredibly important in the modern NFL. I'm as skitzo as the next guy I suppose when it comes to this team and trying to find a measure of where we are and how far we have yet to go.

Hang in there GHH...

I think Cincy will be using all three of those first rounders. I would.

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Currently there are 10 teams behind us in the standings and another 4 tied with us but we are ranked below all of them. Of those 14 teams 7-8 of them are in need of a quarterback. Now dont get me wrong,the idea of being happy for a loss to me is absurd and gut wrenching.I'd still be cheering every TD etc... And i know many people on here and abroad would not agree with a few of us.But any wins takes us out of contention for a top qb draft spot and increases the number of picks/players we'd need to give up in order to move up and secure a top spot.

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Gibbs, you have big balls. We both predicted this type of season injury or not. We simply just don't have enough across the board. The interesting piece to observe moving forward is Danny. What does Danny do if we end up 3-13 and Shanny gets off to one of the worst 2 year starts of any head coach Dan has had here.

Well Coach Gibbs call Danny and tell him to think twice before he begins to metal? Will Danny fire Kyle, creating a schism between him and Mike? Will Danny try and choose the QB that Bruce and Mike don't agree on?

Dan Snyder is the wild card here. I firmly believe that year 3 was when we begin to see what this all about but every time we almost get over the hump Dan steps in.

Hail!

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Or you can just ignore it. There are positive threads that hurt my eyes more than this.

I'm not talking about reading them. I wouldn't waste my time reading that drivel. I don't want the front page to get cluttered up with threads about such nonsense.

Hopefully, the mods will force it all to one thread if there are a number of people who want to go this ridiculous route.

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Currently there are 10 teams behind us in the standings and another 4 tied with us but we are ranked below all of them. Of those 14 teams 7-8 of them are in need of a quarterback. Now dont get me wrong,the idea of being happy for a loss to me is absurd and gut wrenching.I'd still be cheering every TD etc... And i know many people on here and abroad would not agree with a few of us.But any wins takes us out of contention for a top qb draft spot and increases the number of picks/players we'd need to give up in order to move up and secure a top spot.

Th beauty of that is we don't have enough to win another game on our schedule. Our offense is shot and our defense is human. If they stay on the field to long the get tired.

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