GHH laid totally bare with his fanhood on the line: Why it's best for our team to lose out the rest of the 2011 season.

[Est.1974]

Again, this year, the D working it's ass off and doing more than enough to win ball games. Only to be let down by the O lead by the ineptitude of the man that leads it.

GHH, I disagree with this statement. From being 3-1 at the BYE, our defense has been awful in the two subsequent defeats. I'm hanging the Panthers game on them.

And whilst snagging a top QB will without doubt set us up for the longer term, if our best option for success is to essentially tank the season, then I can't help but think we have the wrong HC at the helm. And you don't like our OC, so you may as well dump the pair of them.

Suggesting that 'to lose out is best for our team', implies to me that you think Shanahan & Allen can't turn this thing around otherwise.

Do you think they can if we finish 8-8 ?

[Henry]

I love the 'holier-than-thou' attitude from some that's just stopping short of saying 'I'm a proper fan and your not.'

Not complaining. I knew when the thread went up it left me wide open to criticism, which is fine.

It just amuses me that I can happily accept and totally understand, for want of a better expression, the 'homer' view of wanting to win as many games as possible/ you play to win the game etc.; yet quite a few who take that stance don't afford the other view point the same respect and arrogantly assume their argument has more worth than what they don't like.

But then hoping for equal respect always has been too much to ask for on a board as vast as this.

Continue on.

Hail.

Gibbs, I'm sorry but I am not familiar with your posting history. I don't spend nearly as much time on this board as I used to (that whole walking away from the TV thing I alluded to earlier) so I'm not as up on the regulars as I used to be. So in response to your post I can only go by what I'm reading here.

What I'm reading here is a guy who's looking for a debate. You don't write a missive like that an expect nothing but back-patting. Especially not on a board as active as this.

So yes, I do expect you love the responses. However, the debate you've achieved in this thread is very mild stuff. I think you may be commenting on the responses you expected to get, not what you are actually getting. Either that, or you aren't as tolerant of those who disagree with you as you think you are.

[SWFLSkins]

Taking a few steps backwards to take a gigantic leap forward. :2cents:

Choosing to lose is the biggest step back anyone or any team could choose.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Choosing to lose is the biggest step back anyone or any team could choose.

As a Wizards and Nats fan, I see things differently.

John Wall, Stephen Strasburg, Bryce Harper etc.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

UKSF: Not without giving up a heck of al lot for one of the top QB's.

Finishing 8-8 just mires us in the same, unending circle of mediocrity that's blighted this franchise for years to me. Always flattering to deceive. Just enough wins to peek interest. But too many to really get the guy we so desperately need. I have complete faith Shanahan and Allen would draft well, make good FA pick-up's, and continue the sterling job they've done to date. But without that key figure, it all ultimately falls down.

I'll give you the first half of the Eagles game and last week, but overall the D, with it's faults, has done MORE than enough to win footbgames this year. But when you can't score for ****, it matters little.

Hail.

[prufRock]

I'm okay with wanting to bottom out. I was hoping for losses throughout the 2009 season. It's usually only productive if you want a full housecleaning. Consider the fact that a 3-13 season means that Shanahan limps into next season as a lame-duck, hot-seat coach, no matter what everyone's been saying about Dan Snyder having turned over a new leaf. In fact, I wonder if Shanahan would survive if he went 3-13...

[SWFLSkins]

As a Wizards and Nats fan, I see things differently.

John Wall, Stephen Strasburg, Bryce Harper etc.

And the trophies are rolling in?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Gibbs, I'm sorry but I am not familiar with your posting history. I don't spend nearly as much time on this board as I used to (that whole walking away from the TV thing I alluded to earlier) so I'm not as up on the regulars as I used to be. So in response to your post I can only go by what I'm reading here.

What I'm reading here is a guy who's looking for a debate. You don't write a missive like that an expect nothing but back-patting. Especially not on a board as active as this.

So yes, I do expect you love the responses. However, the debate you've achieved in this thread is very mild stuff. I think you may be commenting on the responses you expected to get, not what you are actually getting. Either that, or you aren't as tolerant of those who disagree with you as you think you are.

Oh, that wasn't directed at you Henry FWIW.

Just a few other responses that have both flat out stated I should switch teams, and others that insinuated that the opposite opinion had little worth and I or anyone else was totally wrong for floating it.

The majority have been real reasoned, and good to read.

That was only a (mild) barb at a few posters who went the other way.

Hail.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

And the trophies are rolling in?

demanding much? winning takes time.

the capitals say hello.

[Rufus T Firefly]

And the trophies are rolling in?

Not as quickly as Snyder is piling them up, no.

[Henry]

As a Wizards and Nats fan, I see things differently.

John Wall, Stephen Strasburg, Bryce Harper etc.

The Wizards? Really?

I'm not sure I'd use them as a shining example of the merits of hoping for a crappy season and a top draft pick ...

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

As a Wizards and Nats fan, I see things differently.

John Wall, Stephen Strasburg, Bryce Harper etc.

yeah, i really wish matt chico and garrett mock had just pitched a little better so we could have drafted dustin ackley. who needs strasburg anyways? hes just an ace with 5 plus pitches who can top out at 101 MPH and mows hitters down. not to mention hes an intelligent kid whos competitive as all hell. i was hoping for more wins that year, i think all that winning would have helped the development of sterling players such as elijah dukes and scott olsen. they need to learn how to win!!

same goes for that year with that bryce harper guy, what a waste, he hasnt even won us a championship!! i mean who cares that hes only 19, if you draft a guy #1 overall he better be hoisting that world series trophy up within a year. i swear to god im patient!

and the caps are just dying with that alex ovechkin guy they drafted #1 overall. can you believe they only win the division every year? what losers. where are the trophies? seriously??

---------- Post added October-25th-2011 at 02:31 PM ----------

The Wizards? Really?

I'm not sure I'd use them as a shining example of the merits of hoping for a crappy season and a top draft pick ...

wall has played one season and looked damn good in it. im not basketball savvy, but i know that kid can play and if they put some other pieces around them theyll be well on their way.

patience is key when drafting kids.

[Est.1974]

All right Mister, let me tell you what winning means... you're willing to go longer, work harder, give more than anyone else.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

All right Mister' date=' let me tell you what winning means... you're willing to go longer, work harder, give more than anyone else.[/quote']

i can work longer, try harder, want it more than the other guy: and ill never beat desean jackson in the 40 yard dash.

we have a talent issue, not a heart issue.

[KCClybun]

Let's can the basketball allegories before they start.

The NBA is a completely different animals than the NFL. In the NBA, one player really can make a huge difference just by being really really good. That's not the case in the NFL.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Let's can the basketball allegories before they start.

The NBA is a completely different animals than the NFL. In the NBA, one player really can make a huge difference just by being really really good. That's not the case in the NFL.

peyton manning just e-slapped you.

[HAIL Freezes Ova]

Tldr...............................................

[Slateman]

GHH ... you can't see me, but I'm clapping right now. Finally, FINALLY!!! One of "you people" gets it. By "you people" I mean the homer, blindly loyal, don't you dare talk bad about my Redskins fan who honestly convinces themselves that the Redskins have a legit shot at the playoffs. Every year they claim the coach, the players, the team is going all the way. They fall in love with players that obviously have glaring weaknesses, or worse, simply aren't as good as fans want them to be. They always blame one player, who really doesn't have much to do with it, but he's the scape goat. Then they vilify him.

GHH, I'm proud of you. You have evolved. You have grown. You see this team for what it is. You see a mediocre team with a history of mediocrity. You see a team that is too used to losing and too complacent with "the way things are." And yet, you still love them. You still bleed Burgundy and Gold. You're not less of a fan. You're more of one.

Now, if we can just get the rest of the Kool Aid drinkers to think like this, we might have something.

[tex]

When the team was at close to full strength I was in the "Just Win Baby" camp. Things are different now with so many players out due to injuries and the less than stellar play calling.

:evilg: So now I figure if you're going to lose may as well get something out of it.....like some high draft picks. :evilg:

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

GHH ... you can't see me, but I'm clapping right now. Finally, FINALLY!!! One of "you people" gets it. By "you people" I mean the homer, blindly loyal, don't you dare talk bad about my Redskins fan who honestly convinces themselves that the Redskins have a legit shot at the playoffs. Every year they claim the coach, the players, the team is going all the way. They fall in love with players that obviously have glaring weaknesses, or worse, simply aren't as good as fans want them to be. They always blame one player, who really doesn't have much to do with it, but he's the scape goat. Then they vilify him.

GHH, I'm proud of you. You have evolved. You have grown. You see this team for what it is. You see a mediocre team with a history of mediocrity. You see a team that is too used to losing and too complacent with "the way things are." And yet, you still love them. You still bleed Burgundy and Gold. You're not less of a fan. You're more of one.

Now, if we can just get the rest of the Kool Aid drinkers to think like this, we might have something.

:notworthy:notworthy

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Slateman, you've just made my ES life.

Thank you, that's brilliant. Never before have I been called a 'homer.' That's tickled me like I can't tell you. I've been called a lot of things on here, but never a 'homer.'

That'll confuse the HELL out of a lot of folk now, lol.

Hail.

[Est.1974]

we have a talent issue, not a heart issue.

We'll have both if we lose 12 games on the bounce.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I have no problem with what you are saying from an intellectual point of view, but for me, football is meant to be an emotional release and complex escapism. So, there's only one way I could buy into what you're selling. That's not too watch and walk away. Being a realist is meant for other aspects of my life... football is about the impossible and dreaming and screaming for the home team and buying a box of Cracker Jacks because ya gotta have heart and ya can't ever quit.

I respect what you're saying and what you've been pretty consistant about since before preseason and I can even acknowledge a degree of truth and logic to it, but it ain't for me. For the reason I pointed out and for the reason that the draft doesn't make you an instant winner. Look how many busts... look at how high Heath Shuler brought us or Akili Smith, David Carr, or Ryan Leaf brought their teams.

You may be right, but sports isn't about right. It's about passion, miracles, and vicarious thrills and supporting your guys. It's an area of our lives where we get to be irrational and stupid. Blind homerism is laudable.

So, I'll root for the guys to win because otherwise there's no game.

Beautifully said :applause:...

[SWFLSkins]

demanding much? winning takes time.

the capitals say hello.

Ah yes, the winning takes the time. Right now the Skins are turning the corner and should continue to show resolve. The Redskins as an organization has just begun to draft well. I don't see how a few spots in any given draft changes or effects that. However losing would continue a mind set that has become too comfortable. The Redskins are on the path we the fans had hoped for, too bad we the fans don't have the stomach for the amount of time that takes.

---------- Post added October-25th-2011 at 02:59 PM ----------

Not as quickly as Snyder is piling them up, no.

But Snyder made the change of course we all demanded, he hired a GM, got rid of Vinny, hired a quality Coach with experience and stepped out of the spotlight. The trophies are coming just have some wherewith all and enjoy the ride.

---------- Post added October-25th-2011 at 03:01 PM ----------

We'll have both if we lose 12 games on the bounce.

B-I-N-............ (sing along everyone)

[Rufus T Firefly]

But Snyder made the change of course we all demanded, he hired a GM, got rid of Vinny, hired a quality Coach with experience and stepped out of the spotlight. The trophies are coming just have some wherewith all and enjoy the ride.

He made the point that high draft picks have brought premier talent to the Wizards and Nationals and you tried to completely dismiss it, because it hasn't brought them trophies yet. This demand of a rookie and a minor leaguer, no less.

At the same time, you are claiming the Skins- in year 2 of bad football under this regime- are somehow clearly and unquestionably on the path to glory.

At utter, absolute best your argument is hypocritical and hollow.