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Trent Williams Needs to Pick It Up

zoony

By zoony
in The Stadium

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zoony

zoony

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Lachey did struggle a bit in 88 but so did the whole team and it was his first year in a new system having joined from the Raiders. 88 was a year when we had a revolving door at QB and RB through injury and mediocre play (Timmy Smith spent more time in night clubs than on the field that year). It was Gibbs worst year of his first stint coming off the Super Bowl win in 87 so Lachey was not alone in struggling that year.

From 89 onwards though to say '92 he was the best LT in football IMO and the entire line only gave up 9 sacks all year in 91. Nine! Injuries caught up with him as age caught up with the rest of the roster. I think your right he does get overlooked, when people talk about the Hogs we all think of Javoby and Grimm but Lachey was a better pass protector than Jacoby and a better run blocker in space as well.

eh you're British what do you know :silly:

(thanks for the info, you and wog have a better memory of that season than I do)

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Oldfan

Oldfan

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SMcQ: While I admire your effort to support your opinion with stats, I think that’s very difficult to do in this case. For example, you say:

I do, however, remember reading a stat where Ryan Clady--considered a very good pass protecting offensive lineman, surrendered the most pressures of any tackle in the league as a rookie. And he didn't play injured like Trent did. Now in his third season, Clady ranked as the 8th most efficient pass protecting LT in the league. So that's a precedent for Trent of a LT improving substantially as a pass protector from his rookie season, in an extremely similar offensive system.

Clady in his rookie season might have had several pressures, but he had only one sack recorded against him. This was 2008 when he played in Mike’s scheme with the very mobile Jay Cutler rolling out often. So, Clady had few sacks and more pressures due largely to scheme.

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polywog999

polywog999

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eh you're British what do you know :silly:

(thanks for the info, you and wog have a better memory of that season than I do)

Our secondary sucked bong water....it was the beginning of the end of Barry Wilburn who tried to come back too soon from injury, we got trashed at the house of pain, Lohmiller was a rook who cost us a game, Doug Williams proved he was a one hit wonder, Alvin Walton proved that he could not cover....in short - an aging team that was lucky to win the SB in 87, exposed as sub-par.

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zoony

zoony

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Our secondary sucked bong water....it was the beginning of the end of Barry Wilburn who tried to come back too soon from injury,

Ahhh, Barry Will-get-burned... now that brings back memories

Okay, I do remember us being 6-6 at one point that season, and losing to Cincinnati despite rushing for something like 4,679 yards that game. Sam Wyche was the coach. I remember that specifically because my mom yelled at me for sulking over a stupid football game. She's never understood the obsession :D

just remembered, pretty sure Jamie Morris was our RB that game. wow, memory lane...

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polywog999

polywog999

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Ahhh, Barry Will-get-burned... now that brings back memories

Okay, I do remember us being 6-6 at one point that season, and losing to Cincinnati despite rushing for something like 4,679 yards that game. Sam Wyche was the coach. I remember that specifically because my mom yelled at me for sulking over a stupid football game. She's never understood the obsession :D

just remembered, pretty sure Jamie Morris was our RB that game. wow, memory lane...

We rallied behind a running back who was third string "Jamie Morris." Brother of the Giants running back who got like 150 yards with a 3.2? average. We just kept running the ball. They played in the SB that year. Had the #1 offence.

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Going Commando

Going Commando

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SMcQ: While I admire your effort to support your opinion with stats, I think that’s very difficult to do in this case. For example, you say:

Clady in his rookie season might have had several pressures, but he had only one sack recorded against him. This was 2008 when he played in Mike’s scheme with the very mobile Jay Cutler rolling out often. So, Clady had few sacks and more pressures due largely to scheme.

I definitely agree. Part of what makes grading pass protection so difficult is the pretty wide range of responsibilities that offensive linemen have from scheme to scheme. Just thinking about the differences between man and zone schemes alone are pretty huge. How do you grade the proper help block pickups without knowing the playcall or the specifics of one team's zone scheme? Then think about the differences between an OT who plays in a pass heavy scheme (600-700 pass protection snaps) versus one who plays in a run to set up the pass scheme and you figure that creates some enormously different pass protection situations too.

I think it's a statistical oddity that Clady can lead the league in pressures given up and only be charged with one sack allowed. I'd turn to an explanation of scheme design + pocket movement + QB mobility + QB release time to figure out how that can happen.

Regardless, it means that Ryan Clady looks a lot better than he really was for that season when you only go by only sacks allowed. He got a second team All-Pro nod that year that he didn't deserve. I think it's no coincidence that Clady's performance seemed to decline a bit when Jay Cutler was traded the next year and Josh McDaniels was hired. I don't think his play necessarily declined, rather some of those pressures actually started being converted into sacks.

Those are big reasons why I think the sacks allowed stat is inadequate for grading OL play. Most of the worse OTs according to sacks allowed are typically only 6-8 sacks allowed worse than most of the best OTs. That difference of only 6-8 snaps out of an average of 500 something snaps doesn't seem especially meaningful to me. I think far too much bad play is ignored by the metric.

---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 04:33 PM ----------

Everything OK man? Just been reading about the quake from Virginia on up.

Hail.

Yeah everything is fine, thanks for your concern GHH. It was only a small quake. I haven't heard of anyone having anything more than some pictures fall off the wall and the power going out sporadically. It was just an exciting moment. Apparently for the people on high floors it was scary. If you were outside or in an automobile, you probably didn't even feel it.

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Gibbs Hog Heaven

Gibbs Hog Heaven

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Yeah everything is fine, thanks for your concern GHH. It was only a small quake. I haven't heard of anyone having anything more than some pictures fall off the wall and the power going out sporadically. It was just an exciting moment. Apparently for the people on high floors it was scary. If you were outside or in an automobile, you probably didn't even feel it.

Good to hear bro. When you hear it was felt from South Carolina all the way up the Eastern seaboard to Martha's Vineyard, it makes you worry for you guys in Virginia.. Glad it wasn't serious.

Hail.

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Skin'Em84

Skin'Em84

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Just to point out, watching the Colts-Skins Highlight thread, Trent was average/below average in Pass Protection, and completely mauled people in the run game (when he hits them). Not to say he's at his peak in the run game, but a few examples:

Helu, :43- Shoves his DE about 8 yards upfield with one arm. Does have the advantage of taking him off the block of Davis, but he still only connects with one arm and drives him 8 yards upfield.

Helu, 1:02- Takes out 2, almost 3 Colts defenders on what seems to be a stretch right.

Helu, 1:22- Not a run play, but does a good job controlling his man to set up the screen.

Hightower, :23- Controls Freeney, helps open hole for Hightower cutback for big gain. Gets good support from the rest of the line too.

Couple things that bug me about him in the run game is his seemingly lack of hustle. For a big man with vaunted athletic ability, he seems to be jogging a lot. A couple plays in the Helu vid he seems lost, not knowing who to block. When he does hit his guy in the run game, he does pretty well. In the passing game, he seems to be much higher than Freeney, and it would be nice to see him get a bit lower on the end and not be stepping back as much.

It would also be nice to not see him get his ankles broken by Chick.

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TD_washingtonredskins

TD_washingtonredskins

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I loved that play because I absolutely hate Ray Lewis. But what I liked more was Trent said last week he had a bad game and needed to step it up. He did, and against a really good team.

Overall the OL held up pretty well against a good and creative defense. That was a good test run and hopefully they continue to improve and develop cohesion.

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