RandyHolt Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Its simple. If he is overworked taking on another year of what are just THE elite rushers in the league, I for one wouldnt mind seeing the pro bowler getting a look at LT, and move Trent over to Right. Sure its unspeakable to some and considered a knee jerk reaction to others, but if he has struggles this year, do you leave him in blindly? And let our fumble happy QB's get pummelled? Jamal Brown is no slouch at LT and you know it. Last I saw of him, he was hustling way down field chasing after THT during his big run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Its simple. If he is overworked taking on another year of what are just THE elite rushers in the league, I for one wouldnt mind seeing the pro bowler getting a look at LT, and move Trent over to Right. Sure its unspeakable to some and considered a knee jerk reaction to others, but if he has struggles this year, do you leave him in blindly? And let our fumble happy QB's get pummelled? Jamal Brown is no slouch at LT and you know it. Last I saw of him, he was hustling way down field chasing after THT during his big run. Not gonna happen. If so, it'd probably happen mid season. And then I would hedge my bets on Williams being cut that offseason. He makes waaaaaaaaay too much money to be a good RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportjunkie07 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 yeah he had a very rough game.. its a little scary considering he is supposed to be a franchise LT and you dont ever expect franchise LT's to look that sloppy. it is preseason though, ill chalk it up as just a very bad game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 ...Do these threads pop up every time a player has a bad game? Nope, sometimes they pop up when players have good games too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Both ILBs have the same set of total responsibilities. This defense is supposed to be able to flip symmetrically. The safeties, OLBs, and ILBs actually have to know every aspect of the position since they don't align the personnel groups according to the strength of the play. It's a demanding scheme. That's not always the case in the 3-4, but if it is the case with our defense, then nothing would prevent Fox from starting opposite Fletch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 He looks out of shape to me. Not saying he hasn't been working or is lazy, just that he's not in season form yet. This lack of an off-season will certainly have a negative impact on many players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 That's not always the case in the 3-4, but if it is the case with our defense, then nothing would prevent Fox from starting opposite Fletch. It supposedly is. Landry especially talked about the open side/closed side dynamic for the safeties at the start of last season and explained how it meant that both safeties have to know and be able to execute all of the assignments on any given play. Supposedly Orakpo has learned all of the LB assigments too (but he also moves to almost every linebacker spot in the defense). You can see the intrinsic need for versatility in the types of ILBs the FO has brought in/kept. They're generalists like Perry Riley that are ideally supposed to be able to cover, play the run, and blitz. Personally I like the fact that the defense can adjust to the strength of the play without flipping our personnel. I think it really gives your pass defense some teeth. I think we probably will see Fox start beside London at some point this season. I think Rocky has the legup on him right now as the incumbent but I think Fox is probably a better player in this scheme and will end up winning the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Yeah, that sounds good to me. I think we have the personnel for that style of 3-4 as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Its simple. If he is overworked taking on another year of what are just THE elite rushers in the league, I for one wouldnt mind seeing the pro bowler getting a look at LT, and move Trent over to Right. Sure its unspeakable to some and considered a knee jerk reaction to others, but if he has struggles this year, do you leave him in blindly? And let our fumble happy QB's get pummelled? Jamal Brown is no slouch at LT and you know it. Last I saw of him, he was hustling way down field chasing after THT during his big run. I think abandoning Trent at LT is one of the worst moves we could make this year. Trent will be fine if he gets time to develop into the position. He needs confidence from the coaching staff and motivation to work hard and own his position. Trent is a way bigger talent than Jammal Brown and swapping their positions would be both a short and long term mistake. It takes time to adjust to a side of the line and doing it midstream hardly ever works. Also you're overestimating JB's play at LT in NO based on his Probowl invites. Apparently Brown was pretty undeserving of them since he's always been a guy who gives up lots of pressures and penalties. Trent is probably already almost as good as he is in Pass Pro. The thing Brown has always done well is run block and that makes him a better fit at RT anyway IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCClybun Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 He looks out of shape to me. Not saying he hasn't been working or is lazy, just that he's not in season form yet. This lack of an off-season will certainly have a negative impact on many players. All of his coaches (including Mike Shanahan) and his teammates have said he came into camp in shape and was in much better shape than he was last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadExField Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 my post I forgot to reply: Trent did have a soggy game. I think he played way below his level, and I'm sure he isn't content with his performance either. Last time I checked, this was supposed to be a friendly place to discuss football, not call out members here for having a differing opinion or different kind of dedication to the team. That does nothing but stir up more sour soup for people here to drink and spit right back at you. I must've missed last season, because I don't remember Trent struggling a whole lot. He sure was tested a lot against pretty much every premiere pass rusher in the league, and I'd say he did just fine for being a rookie being thrown in the fire early. I'm not satisfied either and I do think he needs to pick it up, but there is plenty of time to improve and master his assignments. You guys comparing him to Chris Samuels, you guys need to realize they're two different players, playing in two different offenses. You want your LT to protect no matter the scheme, but is Trent going to get better sitting at home comparing himself to our retired players? I hope not. Admire them, or study them on tape? That's cool with me, but I wouldn't go that far to compare them and say we're worse with Trent. If you guys want to talk football, lets talk football, but there is no need to label and belittle the fans here, I find that very distasteful and quite childish, regardless of where you're coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I think abandoning Trent at LT is one of the worst moves we could make this year. Trent will be fine if he gets time to develop into the position. He needs confidence from the coaching staff and motivation to work hard and own his position.Trent is a way bigger talent than Jammal Brown and swapping their positions would be both a short and long term mistake. It takes time to adjust to a side of the line and doing it midstream hardly ever works. Also you're overestimating JB's play at LT in NO based on his Probowl invites. Apparently Brown was pretty undeserving of them since he's always been a guy who gives up lots of pressures and penalties. Trent is probably already almost as good as he is in Pass Pro. The thing Brown has always done well is run block and that makes him a better fit at RT anyway IMO. So if he gets overworked, you are just going to leave him in there? Our pickups Gaffney Stallworth Chester Bowen Cofield and Hightower tell me we are in win now mode once again and Trent has the toughest job on O with little time to develop. If he has a horribly fragile ego, yeah moving him to RT is the worst thing we could do. To him, maybe less our QB's. Jamal certainly may not be better but Jamal IS a seasoned vet. Trent did great early last year, and then in the face of week after week of stud rushers, came back to earth. I am not down on him or predicting a year of struggles. I am saying IF he gets worked over. The other option, give him help via TE's and our back chipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011081951/2011/PRE2/redskins@colts/watch Watch these highlights: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d82195d8b/Hightower-in-high-gear http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d821960a2/Hooray-for-Helu Those were the 50 yarders and both were made possible by Trent doing work! He pushed that defender around on the Helu scamper and looked even better moving Freeney on the Hightower run. He's a good run blocker and his pass pro will get better. I'm really excited about watching him this season. ---------- Post added August-22nd-2011 at 06:44 PM ---------- So if he gets overworked, you are just going to leave him in there? Our pickups Gaffney Stallworth Chester Bowen Cofield and Hightower tell me we are in win now mode once again and Trent has the toughest job on O with little time to develop. If he has a horribly fragile ego, yeah moving him to RT is the worst thing we could do. To him, maybe less our QB's. Jamal certainly may not be better but Jamal IS a seasoned vet. Trent did great early last year, and then in the face of week after week of stud rushers, came back to earth. I am not down on him or predicting a year of struggles. I am saying IF he gets worked over. The other option, give him help via TE's and our back chipping. I would hope we would go to some help blocking before we change his position. Trent will be fine even if he has a few bad games. This is a learning process for him. I don't think adding guys like Hightower, Cofield, and Bowen means we're going for broke this season because they're each still fairly young. Stallworth and Gaffney aren't really core player additions and don't determine our long term planning. Chester is a 6th lineman swing OG/OT so neither does he. He was a rookie last year, up and down performances from week to week are the norm. There will probably be some of that this year too since he's still very much a developing player. In the meantime, let's enjoy his flashes of brilliance and take them for a sign of what's to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskinizzle Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 ... we are talking about a sub_par rookie year characterized by an unwillingness to put in the proper preperation (shannys words), repeated struggling against good passrushers, a no show offseason.... Wow, I did not know Shanahan came out and said that Trent was unwilling to put in proper prep. Missed that sound bite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Samuels was on equal footing with Flozell Adams, Tra Thomas and Willie Anderson. When you're wrong, you're wrong. Samuels > those chumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 When you're wrong, you're wrong. Samuels > those chumps. Samuels was better than Flozell and Tra Thomas but Willie Anderson was a very good player. He was a RT sure, but he was as good a RT as Samuels was a LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Samuels was better than Flozell and Tra Thomas but Willie Anderson was a very good player. He was a RT sure, but he was as good a RT as Samuels was a LT. I won't disagree with that. But Samuels playing on the left put his services at a premium. Samuels was awesome...as a human being and a football player. Wish he was still on the Skins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 When you're wrong, you're wrong. Samuels > those chumps. Flozell had a pretty comparable career to him. People also forget that Tra Thomas had a period of four years where he was damn good. Sorry, I loved Samuels and his consistency, but it just so happens that he wasn't on the level of the top tier guys. He wouldn't have made the Pro Bowl anymore in the AFC because of Roaf and Ogden. If we look at first team All-Pro selections, Samuels, Flozell, and Thomas all had one. Anderson had 4, but he played RT, so I gave him a lesser grade (he was dominant regardless). By comparison, Ogden had 11, Pace had 5, Jones had 7, and Roaf had 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Samuels was a notch below those guys I agree, but he was much better than Flozell "lead the NFL in false start/holdings" Adams and Tra Thomas. Samuels was excellent if not dominant for most of his career until injuries took him down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Sorry, I loved Samuels and his consistency, but it just so happens that he wasn't on the level of the top tier guys. He wouldn't have made the Pro Bowl anymore in the AFC because of Roaf and Ogden. If we look at first team All-Pro selections, Samuels, Flozell, and Thomas all had one. Anderson had 4, but he played RT, so I gave him a lesser grade (he was dominant regardless). By comparison, Ogden had 11, Pace had 5, Jones had 7, and Roaf had 6. Mega, Do you think that if Samuels was on the Cowboys (or some other media darling) for the duration of his career, he might have received more accolades from the press? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCClybun Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Before it was called "Fletcher Syndrome" (getting ignore for your stellar play because you're on a crappy football team), it could probably be called Samuels Syndrome. Or I'm just making stuff up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRookie Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Our pickups Gaffney Stallworth Chester Bowen Cofield and Hightower tell me we are in win now mode once again... Why do you feel this way? I'm not sure any of these signings signal a win-now philosophy. Add to that the way we went about the draft and drastically reduced the age of the roster and I think your looking at a turn toward a longer term rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Trent Williams was was one of the worst in terms of sacks allowed last season. Just sayin', zoony makes a fair point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Samuels was a notch below those guys I agree, but he was much better than Flozell "lead the NFL in false start/holdings" Adams and Tra Thomas. Samuels was excellent if not dominant for most of his career until injuries took him down. Flozell had a three year run where he was playing great ball. Of course everyone remembers the penalties that he's racked up, as they're more recent. But you don't get a contract at the age he did, for the length (8 years), for that much money, with known weaknesses (penalties, deafness of right ear) without being really good at what you do. It just so happens he fell off after year 2 of the contract. That was the Cowboys' miscalculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan4life83 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I don't think anybody is saying Trent doesn't need to step it up. He obviously does. However I think stepping back from overreaction and emotion and looking at the big picture would do some good. Trent was drafted because we had a glaring need at LT with Samuels abrupt retirement. Every draft guru knew that he was a career RT in college who excelled at run blocking but was average at best in pass pro. He only moved to LT his senior season and played with mixed results. His amazing physical ability for a man his size is why Shanny drafted him instead of Okung, who is more of a pure LT but doesn't fit the zone blocking scheme as well as Trent does. True he was a #4 overall pick, but in my opinion it came with a big asterisk. Most tackles drafted in the top 5-10 are sure fire bets, damn near. Trent was drafted due to need and upside. His rookie year wasn't that bad considering the gauntlet of all pro pass rushers he faced every week last year. Trial by fire comes to mind. His run blocking has been nothing less than outstanding, his pass pro has been inconsistent. He shows flashes of excellence one play and promptly makes a error the next. He needs consistency which I believe will come with experience. Year 3 will be when I start judging him more harshly. Until then I consider these as growing pains. Some folks on here expect perfection in his second year. I hate to break it to ya but those folks are going to be ****ing and moaning all year. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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