Reuters : California "Dream Act" approved for illegal immigrants

[The Evil Genius]

From the same wiki page,

A recent UCLA study estimates that between $1.4 trillion and $3.6 trillion in taxable income would be generated for the economy over a 40 year period based upon estimates ranging between 825,000 and 2.1 million potential DREAM Act beneficiaries successfully obtaining legal status through the legislation.

Moreover, with the military facing ongoing recruiting problems, the DOD must be salivating at this new opportunity.

[twa]

Does your wiki address costs both of education and those that fail out or don't make the cut? (they ain't likely to go back home)

You just want more schooled,productive people simply open up the visa process where there are controls.

[The Evil Genius]

Does your wiki address costs both of education and those that fail out or don't make the cut? (they ain't likely to go back home)

You just want more schooled,productive people simply open up the visa process where there are controls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act

I suspect the costs are in bold?

In a December 2010 report, the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation estimated that the November 30th, 2010 version of the dream act would "reduce deficits by about $1.4 billion over the 2011-2020 period and increase government revenues by $2.3 billion over the next 10 years."[6] The same report, however, stresses that the Act '"would increase projected deficits by more than $5 billion in at least one of the four consecutive 10-year periods starting in 2021".

As for the underlined pard of your post, I think that is always a desire - but why not offer an opporunity to educate/employ the immigrants (some of whom are illegal) that are already here?

It seems to me that opening up more visas to those who aren't here creates an even bigger problem, no?

---------- Post added July-26th-2011 at 08:43 AM ----------

I should clarify - all the above info from me was for a national Dream Act.

The California version is here --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_DREAM_Act

[Corcaigh]

You just want more schooled,productive people simply open up the visa process where there are controls.

Yup. If all those furriners have had the superior high school education we hear about from those league tables, why not admit the best of those?

Acts like this are rewarding criminal behavior. They may be trying to make the best outcome they can from failed immigration policy, but they are not addressing the root cause.

[The Evil Genius]

The root cause is that America is usually a better place to live than where these immigrants are coming from.

If we want to truly solve an immigration problem - the only true solution is to become a 3rd world country.

[twa]

The root cause is that America is usually a better place to live than where these immigrants are coming from.

If we want to truly solve an immigration problem - the only true solution is to become a 3rd world country.

Actually we could improve their native land to eliminate the draw

Who's with me for some nation building???

[Mickalino]

The root cause is that America is usually a better place to live than where these immigrants are coming from.

If we want to truly solve an immigration problem - the only true solution is to become a 3rd world country.

We're headed in that direction, it appears

Actually we could improve their native land to eliminate the draw

Who's with me for some nation building???

George Dubya, is that you ?

[techboy]

What documentation do you have to provide to prove that you are an undocumented immigrant?

Nope, but I guess that "Masters in Psychology" looks better on your citizenship application than "Avocado picker".

You've clearly never gotten a degree in psychology.

[renaissance]

What happens if they have college diplomas, does their immigration status change.

A couple months ago I had a discussion with several undocumented/illegal immigrants who were students at universities around Minneapolis. These were all kids 18-21 who came to the US when they were 4-15 years old. All of the kids were extremely bright, outgoing, and doing well in school. One kid is majoring in engineering, one is the president of the student government, etc. When I asked the kids what they plan to do after they graduate, they all just got this disappointed look on their faces. Two girls said they would likely go on to grad school as a way to delay the inevitable, the comp sci major said he would likely continue working in the restaurant business, and one other said he was considering moving to Brasil where he could obtain citizenship through his father. But because of their illegal status none of these kids will be able to pursue good jobs in the US, despite graduating college.

[Predicto]

You just want more schooled,productive people simply open up the visa process where there are controls.

California doesn't have the ability to do that - that is a federal matter.

So California is doing what it can to try and make the most of the best of the crop of young illegal immigrants who were brought here as children and are already here. As twa said, it's not the kid's fault.

[Hubbs]

A couple months ago I had a discussion with several undocumented/illegal immigrants who were students at universities around Minneapolis. These were all kids 18-21 who came to the US when they were 4-15 years old. All of the kids were extremely bright, outgoing, and doing well in school. One kid is majoring in engineering, one is the president of the student government, etc. When I asked the kids what they plan to do after they graduate, they all just got this disappointed look on their faces. Two girls said they would likely go on to grad school as a way to delay the inevitable, the comp sci major said he would likely continue working in the restaurant business, and one other said he was considering moving to Brasil where he could obtain citizenship through his father. But because of their illegal status none of these kids will be able to pursue good jobs in the US, despite graduating college.

Sad.

[twa]

California doesn't have the ability to do that - that is a federal matter.

So California is doing what it can to try and make the most of the best of the crop of young illegal immigrants who were brought here as children and are already here. As twa said, it's not the kid's fault.

I agree...the feds are failing us all on immigration

The Dream act is a bandaid for a broken leg.

[Mickalino]

What documentation do you have to provide to prove that you are an undocumented immigrant?

Same problem when a kid has to prove they're under 13 to get special "kid's prices" at a restaurant.

How do they prove they're under 13 when they're not old enough to show a driver's license ?

[Larry]

Same problem when a kid has to prove they're under 13 to get special "kid's prices" at a restaurant.

How do they prove they're under 13 when they're not old enough to show a driver's license ?

Considering what I'm going through with Mom, I think that if I had a kid, he'd have state-issued photo ID.

Way things are going, by the time he's 18, it might be impossible to get one, unless you already have two.

Edit: Or, some day, we might want to visit Arizona.

[Destino]

This is a federal government issue that the states really have no place involving themselves in. Nothing is going to change the immigration problem other then the federal government doing it's job. Sadly the federal government isn't up to the task. Republican want X, Democrats want Y, and if you listen to either party speak on the matter it's clear they don't know enough about the current system to have a clue on how to go about fixing it. The problem is you can't even analyze the system.

If congress hired TWA and Destino to look into the immigration problem (you know, to be bi-partisan) we couldn't. DHS wouldn't share anything with us and the President wouldn't order them to. States would tell us to go kick rocks and come back with a court order, after which they'd give us a bunch of nonsense and talk about lost files. We'd come back with a incomplete report upon which to base a "solution" which would predictably accomplish nothing at all and may even make the entire situation worse. How many congressman do you think know what happens the specifics of what happens after an immigration raid? I'm going to guess zero.

Let's talk corruption:

Cartels are on the border now and the growing human slave trade business now featured as a monster money maker in their criminal portfolio a border fence will be as effective as a screen door on a submarine. You know have the second most successful corrupting influence on the planet (first being corporate "persons") operating along the entire US and Mexico border. These groups have successfully gain the logistical ability to transport cubic "tons" of product and unknown numbers of people (including children) into every major city in the world. Really think a fence is going to stop them? You think under paid border patrol agents with families they'd rather not see sent to them in pieces are going to be a major obstacle? If we do succeed in curbing illegal immigration what you'll see is a massive expansion of human trafficking.

Private Prisons. (Corporate "Persons")

Let's look at Arizona, center of the controversial immigration law that created a fire storm. Any of you ever ask "where did it come from?" I doubt it but I'll tell you anyway.

...Pearce and the Corrections Corporation of America have been coming to these meetings for years. Both have seats on one of several of ALEC's boards.

And this bill was an important one for the company. According to Corrections Corporation of America reports reviewed by NPR, executives believe immigrant detention is their next big market. Last year, they wrote that they expect to bring in "a significant portion of our revenues" from Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the agency that detains illegal immigrants.

In the conference room, the group decided they would turn the immigration idea into a model bill. They discussed and debated language. Then, they voted on it.

"There were no 'no' votes," Pearce said. "I never had one person speak up in objection to this model legislation."

Four months later, that model legislation became, almost word for word, Arizona's immigration law.

They even named it. They called it the "Support Our Law Enforcement and Safe Neighborhoods Act."

Then came the legal bribes, campaign dollars!

At the state Capitol, campaign donations started to appear.

Thirty of the 36 co-sponsors received donations over the next six months, from prison lobbyists or prison companies — Corrections Corporation of America, Management and Training Corporation and The Geo Group.

By April, the bill was on Gov. Jan Brewer's desk.

Brewer has her own connections to private prison companies. State lobbying records show two of her top advisers — her spokesman Paul Senseman and her campaign manager Chuck Coughlin — are former lobbyists for private prison companies.

now all that's left is the fat cat celebration:

In May, The Geo Group had a conference call with investors. When asked about the bill, company executives made light of it, asking, "Did they have some legislation on immigration?"

After company officials laughed, the company's president, Wayne Calabrese, cut in.

"This is Wayne," he said. "I can only believe the opportunities at the federal level are going to continue apace as a result of what's happening. Those people coming across the border and getting caught are going to have to be detained and that for me, at least I think, there's going to be enhanced opportunities for what we do."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130833741

That's your democracy America. That's the reality these two forgot to include in their little musical.

Why go through all this trouble? Because ICE pays 100 bucks per day per prisoner. Any laws that ensure a longer stay (delays deportation, extended indefinite detention, or longer waiting period to see a judge and clear your name) equals big money. Any law that has law enforcement looking for anyone that looks "illegal-ish" and mandates their detainment equals big money. Watch as these laws start streaming out of states that get new private immigration prisons.

Doesn't matter if you lie to yourself and say this isn't corruption or get angry about it, there isn't a thing you can do about it.

/rant

[HoustonSkin]

Another state passing a law to address an immigration problem that the Federal Government is failing to solve.

So, it seems bringing your kids to America illegaly may not be good for them in the long run. The parents had the opportunity to apply for legal status 5-20 years ago. Had they chosen not to break the law and endured a very poor life for a few years, they could have set their kids up a lot better for their adult years. Now, although kids will be able to "come out of the shadows" for four years in school, they will then subsequently have to re-enter that world and figure out for themselves how they will finally get out of it.

I wonder if I will be able to sneak my kid into a California state school at in-state tuition rate?

Does this Dream Act require that these kids apply for Citizenship prior to receiving the in-state tuition benefit? Or would they just be deported once they applied? For that matter, will the Feds have the ability to see who these kids are that are receiving this benefit from the state, and if so, will they start launching ICE raids at college campuses?

Maybe all this is artfully addressed in the bill...

[brandymac27]

Actually we could improve their native land to eliminate the draw

Who's with me for some nation building???

Hell, we might as well w/ all the foreign aid money we dish out.

A couple months ago I had a discussion with several undocumented/illegal immigrants who were students at universities around Minneapolis. These were all kids 18-21 who came to the US when they were 4-15 years old. All of the kids were extremely bright, outgoing, and doing well in school. One kid is majoring in engineering, one is the president of the student government, etc. When I asked the kids what they plan to do after they graduate, they all just got this disappointed look on their faces. Two girls said they would likely go on to grad school as a way to delay the inevitable, the comp sci major said he would likely continue working in the restaurant business, and one other said he was considering moving to Brasil where he could obtain citizenship through his father. But because of their illegal status none of these kids will be able to pursue good jobs in the US, despite graduating college.

See, and maybe I'm a total beeyotch for thinking like this, but It's hard for me to feel sorry for them. Why can't they go and get a greencard or visa until they get their citizenship???? My best friend came here from Turkey in the mid 1990's and that's what she did, along with her WHOLE family. Why can't illegals do this, especially if they're getting an American education on what may soon be public funding? What are they gonna do- Get their degree off of pell grants, financial aid and then move to Brazil without paying back their financial obligations?

I'm sorry but this does nothing but encourage illegal behavior IMO and I don't like it AT ALL!!

---------- Post added July-26th-2011 at 09:42 PM ----------

I have to add, I tend to lean liberal in most things, but this is one issue that REALLY bothers me b/c I saw 1st hand what my friend and her family went through to do things the RIGHT way. I'm with most conservatives on this issue 100%.

[Hubbs]

See, and maybe I'm a total beeyotch for thinking like this, but It's hard for me to feel sorry for them. Why can't they go and get a greencard or visa until they get their citizenship???? My best friend came here from Turkey in the mid 1990's and that's what she did, along with her WHOLE family. Why can't illegals do this, especially if they're getting an American education on what may soon be public funding? What are they gonna do- Get their degree off of pell grants, financial aid and then move to Brazil without paying back their financial obligations?

I'm sorry but this does nothing but encourage illegal behavior IMO and I don't like it AT ALL!!

I have to add, I tend to lean liberal in most things, but this is one issue that REALLY bothers me b/c I saw 1st hand what my friend and her family went through to do things the RIGHT way. I'm with most conservatives on this issue 100%.

Um... I don't think illegals can just call up the ICE and say, "Hi! I've been an illegal alien in this country ever since my mom brought me over the border when I was 4 years old. Now I'm 22. Green card, please."

[brandymac27]

Um... I don't think illegals can just call up the ICE and say, "Hi! I've been an illegal alien in this country ever since my mom brought me over the border when I was 4 years old. Now I'm 22. Green card, please."

My husbands co worker did it. BTW- If they're letting them go to school/college here, why the hell wouldn't they???

[Mickalino]

Um... I don't think illegals can just call up the ICE and say, "Hi! I've been an illegal alien in this country ever since my mom brought me over the border when I was 4 years old. Now I'm 22. Green card, please."

They're no longer waiting until the baby is 4 years old before they cross the border. They cross right before they go into labor, so VOILA - Anchor Baby !

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

My husbands co worker did it. BTW- If they're letting them go to school/college here, why the hell wouldn't they???

I just want to be clear on this: what do you mean he "did it"? I started to go off (am continuing to go through the green card processing with the wife--a college grad from Brazil--and have a lot to say on the process.

I also dated an illegal immigrant for a couple of years (before the wife, of course). But i definitely understand where Corcaigh is coming from. Believe me I do. With the wife's green card processing and then my father and Peruvian stepmother adopted the son of a family friend who passed away shortly after his birth and watched as it took them FOUR years to get him here legally.

I don't have much to say about this law or that, but I've seen the human element on all sides. It's tough, tough, tough. In the end though, I think it's 1) best for our country to find a way for these people to be contributing members of our society--as a vasst majority of them do want to be, and 2) simply the right and moral thing to do.

[Destino]

My husbands co worker did it. BTW- If they're letting them go to school/college here, why the hell wouldn't they???

You husbands friend left out many details. You can petition for legal status but it's not likely to be granted and they can use your petition to deport you. Things have changed despite what people may think.

[repo_4]

California doesn't have the ability to do that - that is a federal matter.

So California is doing what it can to try and make the most of the best of the crop of young illegal immigrants who were brought here as children and are already here. As twa said, it's not the kid's fault.

I dont think anyone could argue that the kids are at fault, but we cannot keep rewarding the wrong behaviors. Letting them go to any school is wrong. They are taking up resources that children that are actually citizens need. There isnt any incentive for future parents to NOT come here because when they do, they get the same services that legal citizens actually pay for. Just my 2 cents.

[brandymac27]

I just want to be clear on this: what do you mean he "did it"? I started to go off (am continuing to go through the green card processing with the wife--a college grad from Brazil--and have a lot to say on the process.

You husbands friend left out many details. You can petition for legal status but it's not likely to be granted and they can use your petition to deport you. Things have changed despite what people may think.

To be clear, he was granted some type of permit allowing him to live and work here legally, but it had stipulations that he must actively be working on full citizenship and he also had to take ESL (English as a second language classes- which he is all doing).

The point I'm making is if you're here illegally, you should make an effort to become a citizen if you plan on staying here permanently. If you don't plan on staying/or do plan on staying but don't give a crap about becoming a citizen and are illegal, you should be punished (as in leave, peace out, deuces, GTFO, nice knowing ya, etc).

The immigration policies are so laxed right now that I find it hard to believe that anyone who attempted to make a real effort at citizenship would actually be deported. For crying out loud, some of the illegals that live in my city get DUI's, DWI's, and commit other crimes and end up in county jail and eventually released like every other citizen. If illegals commiting crimes aren't being deported, why would a law abiding illegal (well, you know what I mean...) who is trying to work and going to school get deported?

And let me be clear, I'm saying all of this for every person who has come to this country and had to go through the legal process of getting a greencard/visa/full citizenship (which is time consuming and costs money). It's not fair to all of these people who are doing things the right way.

[Jumbo]

I keep having this fantasy where we swap one legal American Southwest republican/tea-party resident for one Mexican illegal immigrant to the tune of a few million, and imagining the much better country we end up having. :evilg: :pfft: