Report: Redskins front-runners for V. Young

[TK]

Have you noticed something about this draft class?.... Brains. They all seem to have them. Our top draft pick wasn't the biggest name, he was the guy with good character, an outstanding work ethic, and high motor. How about Roy Helu? Have you listened to him speak? Not only is he going to make Portis look like a complete loser on the field, he makes him look like the egotistical moron he is off it.

Honestly TK, you said yourself that he drafted Cutler without interviewing him himself, based only off of Fischer's evaluation. What do you think Fischer said about Young? And why would Fischer's opinion suddenly not matter when Shanahan, like the rest of us has seen VY melt down with his own eyes? And why waste a single snap for a guy who could, and probably will, melt down when you need him most? This crap about " he knows this is his last chance" is bull****. He should have known it was his last chance after his first major melt down. He's a head case. It' his nature and he is not going to change.

You know a good chunk of the draft class were also Captains on their teams as well, right. Thing is when you have guys like that you surround a guy with perceived issues with a supportive intrastructure.

And I never said Jeff & Mike talked about Vince. Mike & Kyle (who played with VY) on the otherhand....

[Lavarleap56]

I can't believe some of the nonsense I'm reading in regards to young.Alot of these post prove that people are knocking him but haven't really watched him play.

[Coolio47]

As I recall, his first start was a win against the...Redskins!

[texasthunder]

And the controversy rages on.

I am amazed that there are actual fans here who would give up on a team if the FO picks up VY.

To me that is saying you cant respect a coaches decision enough that you are willing to give up on a team??

We as fans get to hear what the press wants us to hear, and that may or may not be how actual events actuallly transpired.

As the other Texan posted just do a Google search of Vince Young, or Vince Young vs Jeff Fisher.

You will get a variety of different articles. But the theme of most all the articles (in ref to Titans loss to the Redskins) is that VY

was frustrated after the loss. He injured his hand, left the game, came back out with it taped up, Fisher didnt think he could control

the ball and decided not to put VY back in the game. So yes VY got frustrated. Kinda reminds me of Clinton Portis.

Now there have been some posts in regard to Haynesworth, and how that same situation may rear its ugly head again with VY,

Well my rebuttal is that Shanahan did not go after AH, he inherited him. Huge difference !!!

And if a coach that has the credentials that Shanny has,

cannot work with a player that does not want to contribute, then I would have a hard time believing any coach would.

All in all, I still believe that if Shanahan feels he can work with VY, and wants to bring him in to compete with Beck and Grossman,

then its all good as far as I am concerned.

[TK]

I can't believe some of the nonsense I'm reading in regards to young.

I can. Way to much white noise on ES lately.

[redskins021]

If the redskins sign VY , I am willing to bet alot of of the people bashing him right now will be praising him once he is winning games for us. I do not really care about his past I think he needs a change in scenery, VY is a Winner he wins games and isnt that the most important thing. At the end of the day does it matter how or with who you win as long as you win? If the Redskins sign VY we will win alot more games then people think.

[instinct21]

Mike Vick and Vince Young in the same division...scary

[DarrellsMyHero28]

I just don't trust the guy. He's obviously got some serious mental issues.

Maybe Mike thinks he can provide the structure that Vince needs, but VY just strikes me as very immature and not ready to be the leader of a team.

I've heard a ton of rumors about him both in Tennessee and at Texas that just make me think he'll never really be a long term solution for anyone at QB. A lot of accusations of VY not being a student of the game, not wanting to commit to film study the way a starting QB should etc etc.

I'll defer to Mike, he doesn't put up with a lot and if he thinks that he can take Vince under his wing and that Vince will help us going forward I'll wait before I'm overly critical. However, I do think that the media/fanbase here is extremely critical and its not conducive to a guy trying to repair his career. People will be outraged if we sign him after all the stuff that happened last year in TN.

I wouldn't support the move, though if next year's QB class is as good as it seems like its going to be the worst thing that could happen would be our season going in the toilet and we have a shot at a guy like Luck/Barkley/Jones.

[instinct21]

You know a good chunk of the draft class were also Captains on their teams as well, right. Thing is when you have guys like that you surround a guy with perceived issues with a supportive intrastructure.

And I never said Jeff & Mike talked about Vince. Mike & Kyle (who played with VY) on the otherhand....

Mike valued Jeff's opinion about Cutler so much that Mike felt it was not necessary to interview him but Mike is not going to contact Jeff about his starting QB for the last 5 years? ok...this board is getting crazy.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

I'd have to believe that this all about retaining a few of our drafts picks for next year. What better way than to dangle one commodity for another... not mention, things are picturing out to be quite interesting in FAs this season.

[Lavarleap56]

To all the people saying Kerry Collins was better than young. Collins stated the season off 0-6 and had the offense averaging 14pts a game. Adams made Fischer start young and he added instant offense to the tune of 5-0 and averaging 29 points a game. Addicted how can you say a qb being a winning qb is overrated? Seriously? .

Two weeks ago all the talk was about needing a mobile qb and locker love.young has shown in the NFL to be mobile, pass on the run, and preety good and getting better as a pocket passer yet people say he's not a scheme fit and a bad player. I think this are Denver's boards looked like when they got. Plummer and then he started ripping off 13-3 seasons. Smdh

[Backpack3r]

Wouldnt mind taking a shot on him. We need someone to play QB for a year until we draft andrew luck

[MartinC]

Just a crazy hypothetical question Mad Mike?

You will be done with your team you say. I understand that because I am done with my Texans until we get new coaches. While we have never even been to the playoffs, and have the 32 worst defense, arguably the worst secondary in history. I'm pretty confident that we won't win the Superbowl anytime soon so I won't be mad if we make the playoffs.

My question is would you be Mad, Mad Mike if your team signed VY and a miracle happen and they went to the Superbowl with him in 2011 or 2012?

Like I said remember 1987 ! The last time you guys had a mobile QB who supposedly wasn't living up to his potential before being a redskin, and there was a lockout you guys won the SUPERBOWL!

Just a point of historical accuracy by 1987 Doug Williams was not a mobile QB. He was very much a pocket passer - but that was fine as back then we actually could pass protect.

On the wider issue count me as not a fan of this move if it was to happen. I dont see Young as being the kind of accuracte QB who can go through his progressions and consistently move the chains that I think Kyle wants to run his offense. We saw what happened with McNabb last year - I don't see things being much different with Young. IMO Young is a big play QB just like McNabb who is inconsistent with his accuracy from the pocket and tends to go one read and then improvise.

if we did sign him Kyle would need to commit in advance to adjusting is system and play calling to suit what Young does well not try to change Young to fit what I think Kyle really wants in his QB. Sign a one year retread like Rex or Hasslebeck and take a QB high in 2012 in what looks like a strong QB class.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

To all the people saying Kerry Collins was better than young. Collins stated the season off 0-6 and had the offense averaging 14pts a game. Adams made Fischer start young and he added instant offense to the tune of 5-0 and averaging 29 points a game. Addicted how can you say a qb being a winning qb is overrated? Seriously? .

Two weeks ago all the talk was about needing a mobile qb and locker love.young has shown in the NFL to be mobile, pass on the run, and preety good and getting better as a pocket passer yet people say he's not a scheme fit and a bad player. I think this are Denver's boards looked like when they got. Plummer and then he started ripping off 13-3 seasons. Smdh

He also walked out of his house and disappeared for hours because he was mad at people booing him. He thought about retiring after his first season because it wasn't fun anymore. He threw is pads into the stands and refused to talk to his coach, only to apologize via text.

He's 27 and he acts like a teenager when he doesn't get his way. Its one thing to have an immature, primadonna type at WR but I want my QB to be a legitimate leader, someone that the team can count on when things aren't going well. Plus, its not like he's going into the best situation with the lack of talent on this team.

Every time these issues have surfaced, either Vince or his agent will deny what the media has reported or try and spin it to make it seem like it isn't as bad as people think...so we could have a distorted view of who VY is, but I have a feeling that with that much smoke there's some fire. I'm just done with off the field problems, we've had plenty of that recently.

[KDawg]

Ok... So let's play a game...

It's called quarterback A vs. quaterback B. You tell me which you prefer:

QB A:

-Has finished 0 of his seasons starting in all 16 games

-8.33 wins per season when he started 10 or more games

-1:1 TD to INT ratio for his career

-6.8 yards per passing attempt for career

-75 QB rating

QB B:

-33% of his seasons were completed starting all 16 games

-Over 9 wins per season

-2:1 TD to INT ratio

-6.9 YPA

-85.7 QB rating

Let's also say that QB A has a history of mental issues and QB B has a history of being a classy and well respected player.

If you guessed A was Young and B was McNabb, you'd be right.

So let's get this straight...

McNabb, who is more of a proven winner, plays in more games a year, has no mental health issues, has a better QB rating, better YPA, a better TD:INT ratio by a large margin isn't good enough to play for the Redskins... (which, for the record, I agree with, at least in his age/in this system...

But someone with mental instability fits well?

Alrighty then.

I want nothing to do with Vince Young. He'd be another major blunder in the Shanahan era... And it's just off the heels of Allen and Shanahan doing a great thing in the NFL Draft.

I don't see it happening.

[RedskinsInFebruary]

Just a point of historical accuracy by 1987 Doug Williams was not a mobile QB. He was very much a pocket passer - but that was fine as back then we actually could pass protect.

On the wider issue count me as not a fan of this move if it was to happen. I dont see Young as being the kind of accuracte QB who can go through his progressions and consistently move the chains that I think Kyle wants to run his offense. We saw what happened with McNabb last year - I don't see things being much different with Young. IMO Young is a big play QB just like McNabb who is inconsistent with his accuracy from the pocket and tends to go one read and then improvise.

if we did sign him Kyle would need to commit in advance to adjusting is system and play calling to suit what Young does well not try to change Young to fit what I think Kyle really wants in his QB. Sign a one year retread like Rex or Hasslebeck and take a QB high in 2012 in what looks like a strong QB class.

Sounds like we should just keep McNabb.

Except VY probably has a few more years left than McNabb.

[MartinC]

Two weeks ago all the talk was about needing a mobile qb and locker love.young has shown in the NFL to be mobile, pass on the run, and preety good and getting better as a pocket passer yet people say he's not a scheme fit and a bad player

The thing is from what I have seen of him - and thats four or five games over the last couple of years he is not getting better as a pocket passer IMO. He is still inconsistent with his accuracy and lacks the paitence to go through his progressions. I would not say he was a bad player though - he has a lot of talent and the Locker comparison you make is a good one, similar type of QB IMO.

The thing is when we were talking about maybe drafting Locker - and I was not in that camp - it was in the hope that Mike and Kyle could coach Locker up and cure his footwork issue to make him a much better pocket passer. With VY he is now an experienced NFL player - he is what he is IMO. If you sign him don't do it thinking you are going to make him into something he is not, accept you are going to have to adjust your scheme to fit.

---------- Post added May-8th-2011 at 03:26 PM ----------

Sounds like we should just keep McNabb.

Except VY probably has a few more years left than McNabb.

... and would probably be cheaper at this point as well....

[KDawg]

I'm amazed at the amount of support that McNabb Light is getting in this thread.

I'm also amazed that people would be willing to no longer cheer for their team if we signed McNabb Light.

Look, I don't want anything to do with Young... But if he's here. He's here. He's an exciting player, for sure. So he's got that going for him

[Lavarleap56]

1afGNVkIGPQ

One drive but these guys know qbs pretty well. He has improved and will continue to do so.

[jflow78]

I'm amazed at the amount of support that McNabb Light is getting in this thread.

I'm also amazed that people would be willing to no longer cheer for their team if we signed McNabb Light.

Look, I don't want anything to do with Young... But if he's here. He's here. He's an exciting player, for sure. So he's got that going for him

I think I'd only be okay with it if we traded AH for Young. I like the AH and McNabb for Young and a 2nd rounder. That way, if/when VY is another AH, we can toss him out without worrying about having paid him a huge bonus.

But, I agree, if the team signs him, I'll be cheering for him on game day just like every other player we've ever had.

[Lavarleap56]

6Oj9aB8kfLs

Gruden and jaws commenting on young in the pocket. I meant to post this video above but whatever. There is alot of talent here and he is alot better in the pocket then when he came into the league.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

Gruden and jaws commenting on young in the pocket. I meant to post this video above but whatever. There is alot of talent here and he is alot better in the pocket then when he came into the league.

Do you see him as a long term solution?

Honest question. I know I'm no NFL scout, and you know a lot more about this than I do.

[Laxpunk2006]

Nice clip Lavarleap56. Obviously he isn't perfect there but he does a great job keeping his composure. He was money there are fourth down.

[MartinC]

I think I'd only be okay with it if we traded AH for Young. I like the AH and McNabb for Young and a 2nd rounder. That way, if/when VY is another AH, we can toss him out without worrying about having paid him a huge bonus.

But, I agree, if the team signs him, I'll be cheering for him on game day just like every other player we've ever had.

We will not need to trade anything for him - he has a big roster bonus due right after the league year starts (whenever that will be) and will be released in all probability. In any case no one is picking up his existing deal, he will have to sign a "prove it" deal. Thats one of the saving graces of this if it happens - it will not involve us trading a pick or player for that matter.

[addicted]

To all the people saying Kerry Collins was better than young. Collins stated the season off 0-6 and had the offense averaging 14pts a game. Adams made Fischer start young and he added instant offense to the tune of 5-0 and averaging 29 points a game. Addicted how can you say a qb being a winning qb is overrated? Seriously? .

Because LL the QB position isn't just about wins and losses. And a QB isn't the only reason those teams lost.

Tennessee with Collins under center exercised the offense completely different then they did with VY.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?347124-Report-Redskins-front-runners-for-V.-Young&p=8289879&viewfull=1#post8289879

I posted this already but will again.

"In 2009, Chris Johnson played 9 games with Vince Young at QB (not including Week-17, we exclude for the skew of performance data that a Game-16/Week-17 stats can be around the league). The first 6 games of 2009, Johnson played with Kerry Collins at QB – then Young took over for the rest of the season. The difference between Chris Johnson’s time with Young vs. with Collins was remarkable.

15.8 carries per game with Collins, 25.2 carries per game with Young (59.5% more carries with Young)"

Ask yourself why did CJ's rush attempts per game increase 59.5% with VY playing QB? I believe its because Fisher didn't trust VY throwing the ball as much as he trusted the old Collins doing that. TK just posted that Shanahan values Fishers evaluation of QB's greatly. If he trusted VY throwing the ball then he would have had him throw it more then Collins but they shifted the offense with VY under center to a primarily rushing attack. This isn't done by accident imo and it doesn't speak well of what Fisher thought of VY the pass throwing QB.

Furthermore in his career here are his best outputs as a QB in the league for your review:

In his 47 starts purely as a passing QB's here's what he's been able to do for career highs:

He's had only 7 games with 30 or more pass attempts

He's only had one game in his career with him throwing 3 passing TD's (12/20/2009)

He's had only 2 games throwing for 300 or more yards (11/29/2009 & 11/19/2007)

He's never had a game with 100 rushing yards in his career

Like I said when you compare QB stats he's worse then Campbell. The meat of his stats are that he has a good passer ratings and he's won games. Problem with passing ratings is they don't tell a true story all the time. For example last year his passer rating high was 142.5 but he only threw the ball that game 5 times. His next highest rating was 123.7 but he only completed 10 passes that game. Those ratings skew the over all output as a QB goes. The ratings numbers are high for VY but the production isn't there for a top NFL QB. And as for winning a lot of games, sure he was the starter on a bunch of wins but to say that the rest of the team didn't contribute to those wins wouldn't be accurate at all. That's like saying Grossman or Dilfer were stud QB's because they won a lot of games and took those teams to the Superbowl. When you break it down though was Dilfer and Grossman great QB's? Of course not. You can't make an arguement that QB's who "win alot of games" are good QB's. Takes production and Young doesn't have that.

Two weeks ago all the talk was about needing a mobile qb and locker love.young has shown in the NFL to be mobile, pass on the run, and preety good and getting better as a pocket passer yet people say he's not a scheme fit and a bad player. I think this are Denver's boards looked like when they got. Plummer and then he started ripping off 13-3 seasons. Smdh

That comparison holds no water my friend.

Plummer passed for over 10k yards in 46 games. Youngs a few 1000's yards away from that

Plummer wasn't suspended by his former team twice for off the field stuff. Young was

Plummer led his team to a 13-3 record only once. He took the Broncos the playoffs twice as wild card teams. And after the second wild card berth was replaced as the starter when Mike grew tired of his performances. Plummer was a 4 year starter before being replaced and was a completely different QB then Vince Young ever would be.