Report: Redskins front-runners for V. Young

[sportjunkie07]

trying to figure out how you got that.

because of the post below. shanny isnt going to want vince young, there is a "story" attached to every free agents saying the skins will land him.

Fisher and Shanny are very close. If Fisher didn't like Vince's work habits, what makes you think Shanny would? It ain't happening. It's agents putting out BS to create demand for a guy that there isn't much demand for.

[addicted]

Where are you getting the idea it will be a multi-year deal? There's no way anyone will be signing him to big deal including us. If it is a multi-year deal it will be one that is structured where we can easily get out of it if need be. LJ signed a multi-year deal and that kept him here for less than half a season. Vick signed a 2 years deal with a club option on the 2nd season. It was a very favorable deal for the Eagles and they had an out after year 1 if needed.

He won't even be handed the starting job. He'll have to earn it either in TC or during the course of the season.

Well first of all if your his agent would you take a single year deal from us if you can get a multi year deal elsewhere? Free agents usually go to the highest bidder and there are many teams who need a QB besides us so there will be other suitors involved

Second of all what does Mike Vick or LJ have to do with VY? Nothing actually, those situations were completely different. Just as you asked me why would I think it would be a multi year deal I'll ask you why you think it wouldn't be? And since you appear to favor this signing why would you want to sign anyone to a single year deal like this? Sounds like you aren't too convinced he would work out if you wanted to do that. And as for Vick, no one would touch him after spending that time in jail away from football. He is not a comparison to me like Vince Young. Vick had off the field problems. VY has off and on the field issues. Vick was away from football for a long time. Young played last November and hasn't missed any time. And LJ was an old RB that no one thought had anything left in the tank and he didn't. If you think VY doesn't have anything left in his tank then why sign him?

Your argument and comparisons don't make much sense.

I also find the jersey selling notion laughable at this point. People keep spitting the same nonsense about how moves are made for jersey sales. Were any of our '11 picks made for jersey sales?

Draft picks and Free Agent signings aren't the same and it's not "laughable" to anyone paying attention. The right move as a team is not to go after VY. So ask yourself why would a completely rebuilding team be interested in a headcase like this? What's the draw? To me the attraction is that we'd have a new known named QB. McNabb came here last year and sold the second most jerseys in the NFL. I even got one as a last April birthday present. We make moves to up sales all the time. It's not a coincidence, it's smart money imo

[SkinsTribeVA]

He doesn't have the tools to make it in any NFL type offense. He sucks. He's an athlete, not a quarterback. Gah. Hope this doesn't happen. I get so frustrated watching innacurate QBs.

Really? Is that why VY's 30-17 as a starter? Cause he can't run an NFL offense?

57.9% may not be off the charts, but it's not terrible either. Dude's got game to spare, just doesn't have his head on straight.

I say bring him in, just don't hand him the job and don't hand him so much money that we can't cut him at the first sign of trouble. If we do that, the risk/reward ratio is awesome for us.

[addicted]

VY did not cost Fisher his job.

Really?

Jeff Fisher was fine with ownership before the November incident with Young. The owner and coach had many disagreements in the public eye about VY future before he was fired. Maybe that article is right and the firing didn't have everything to do with VY but it helped. The snowball was put in motion because of VY and Fishers relationship.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/05/bud-adams-chooses-jeff-fisher-over-vince-young/

When the owner released this press release it was widely thought that there was a showdown between the two sides. It was after that release when Fisher tried to sign his family to the coaching staff that it the owner decided to veto the hiring and since Fisher was in his last year as head coach he was fired to keep this from getting any more messy then it already was. In the end though to say Vince Young didn't have a very direct impact on Fisher's tenure with the Titans would be incorrect. Technicality you got me, but what I'm saying is true. The relationship between Young and Fisher led them both to be out of jobs in Tennessee

Now you may or may not be right about VY mental state, and hopefully if this deal does transpire then our FO would take a hard look at that aspect.

Look hard means we don't mess with the guy and if we have gotten this far it shows me they don't take it seriously enough. How can you possibly know for certain if he will flip out again or not? Better to side on the caution with this then to have another Tennessee headcase to deal with, He isn't that talented and I want us to go strong after a QB next draft. Screw this season. Its all about the future to me.

[SkinsTribeVA]

Look hard means we don't mess with the guy and if we have gotten this far it shows me they don't take it seriously enough. How can you possibly know for certain if he will flip out again or not? Better to side on the caution with this then to have another Tennessee headcase to deal with, He isn't that talented and I want us to go strong after a QB next draft. Screw this season. Its all about the future to me.

So you're an expert? "Look hard" most definitely does not mean "don't mess with the guy." There's NO way to know for certain whether or not he'll flip out again, but there IS a way to give this immense talent a chance with virtually no risk-- sign him as a FA to a medium-sized contract and let him compete for the job.

He IS that talented, yet this will not stop us in any way from going after a young QB in the near future.

[jivelikenice]

I think he means if VY earns the starting job, plays well, he'll earn and be signed to a multi-year deal and we won't draft a QB next year. THEN VY's baggage will creep back and we're screwed.

If the Eagles operated with that mindset they never would have the QB they have now.

And what big multi-year deals has Allen handed out since he's been in charge of the finances?

[addicted]

Really? Is that why VY's 30-17 as a starter? Cause he can't run an NFL offense?

Too many people put wins on the QB when reality is rarely this simple.

Here's the real story about Vince Young:

Vince Youngs never played a 16 game season in his 5 years of active football and besides the times he didn't start due to disciplinary reasons has missed games due to injuries

Vince Youngs has passed for over 300 yards in a single game only twice in his career

Vince Youngs has thrown three TD's in a single game only once in his career

The Tennessee Titans over the past 5 years have had very good Defenses and Outstanding rushing attacks. By comparison those numbers look worse then Jason Campbell's before he left us. Youngs started over 50 games already.

Dude's got game to spare

Does he? I don't think so. He was great in college but hasn't shown much of anything on the field since his rookie season, imo

[jivelikenice]

Well first of all if your his agent would you take a single year deal from us if you can get a multi year deal elsewhere? Free agents usually go to the highest bidder and there are many teams who need a QB besides us so there will be other suitors involved

Second of all what does Mike Vick or LJ have to do with VY? Nothing actually, those situations were completely different. Just as you asked me why would I think it would be a multi year deal I'll ask you why you think it wouldn't be? And since you appear to favor this signing why would you want to sign anyone to a single year deal like this? Sounds like you aren't too convinced he would work out if you wanted to do that. And as for Vick, no one would touch him after spending that time in jail away from football. He is not a comparison to me like Vince Young. Vick had off the field problems. VY has off and on the field issues. Vick was away from football for a long time. Young played last November and hasn't missed any time. And LJ was an old RB that no one thought had anything left in the tank and he didn't. If you think VY doesn't have anything left in his tank then why sign him?

Your argument and comparisons don't make much sense.

Draft picks and Free Agent signings aren't the same and it's not "laughable" to anyone paying attention. The right move as a team is not to go after VY. So ask yourself why would a completely rebuilding team be interested in a headcase like this? What's the draw? To me the attraction is that we'd have a new known named QB. McNabb came here last year and sold the second most jerseys in the NFL. I even got one as a last April birthday present. We make moves to up sales all the time. It's not a coincidence, it's smart money imo

If he gets a lucrative offer from a team let him take it. Nobody is saying get in a bidding war for him....We're saying he's worth taking a look at if the price is inexpensive and you're done your homework on him. But in reality if you were guessing, do you see a team offering him a multi-year big contract? I don't. Because of the circumstances surrounding his departure from the Titans, his next contract will be very team friendly IMO.

McNabb was brought in because of the caliber player he was & what they thought he can bring to the team in terms of leadership. The fact that he can sell jerseys was icing on the cake but not the reason they did the deal. I think its an easy out for people to always say "they signed so and so to sell jerseys". McNabb is the only player we've brought in the past 2 seasons that had marketability. Non of our picks this year did, none of our picks last year did, and we didn't go after any of the top tier free agents like Peppers last year either.

[addicted]

So you're an expert? "Look hard" most definitely does not mean "don't mess with the guy." There's NO way to know for certain whether or not he'll flip out again, but there IS a way to give this immense talent a chance with virtually no risk-- sign him as a FA to a medium-sized contract and let him compete for the job.

He IS that talented, yet this will not stop us in any way from going after a young QB in the near future.

Seriously what about his "game" makes him anything special to take a risk on this man? He's done nothing in his 5 year career and your talking about this man as if he was great in Tennessee, sorry but he was anything buy great. His talent if he actually had much wouldn't produce the numbers I just posted. You can cross check them if you want. I'm not a VY hater but I'm not a fan of headcases either. There has to be meat on there bones for me to chew on to get interested in a risk like this and I don't see it.

Your entitled to your opinion of course but as that" talent" you claim to see translates to the NFL I think you've been sold some fake mess about this guy. He is in the bottom 1/3rd for QB play in this league and think if it weren't for that contract McNabb signed we'd be better off keeping McNabb then roping onto this horse. In my opinion.

[jivelikenice]

Too many people put wins on the QB when reality is rarely this simple.

Here's the real story about Vince Young:

Vince Youngs never played a 16 game season in his 5 years of active football and besides the times he didn't start due to disciplinary reasons has missed games due to injuries

Vince Youngs has passed for over 300 yards in a single game only twice in his career

Vince Youngs has thrown three TD's in a single game only once in his career

The Tennessee Titans over the past 5 years have had very good Defenses and Outstanding rushing attacks. By comparison those numbers look worse then Jason Campbell's before he left us. Youngs started over 50 games already.

Does he? I don't think so. He was great in college but hasn't shown much of anything on the field since his rookie season, imo

I love how people give Vince minimal credit and say he's had a great D and running game to get him his wins when the facts just don't support that:

The Titans had the 28th ranked D in '09 and the 26th ranked D in '10!...

2010- 4-4 as a starter

2009- 8-2 as a starter

Overall 12-6 as a starter in seasons where the D was ranked 28th and 26th overall.

Chris Johnson

2009

Chris Johnson averaged 141/ypg with Vince at QB

Chris Johnson averaged 99/ypg without Vince at QB

2010

Chris Johnson averaged 116/ypg with Vince at QB

Chris Johnson averaged 74/ypg without Vince at QB

Over that 2 year span the Johnson's average ypc was 5.4 w/ Young and 4.9 w/o Young.

There is something he brings to the field that can't be measured & gets his team in position to win and gets the running game to perform better. I can't pin it, but in apparent.

[addicted]

And what big multi-year deals has Allen handed out since he's been in charge of the finances?

Too many to name but you can start with McNabb and Beck and likely Grossman soon for the QB's if your serious about asking that question about who Allen's signed to multi year deals because 2 out of 3 aint bad lol

---------- Post added May-7th-2011 at 01:01 PM ----------

If he gets a lucrative offer from a team let him take it. Nobody is saying get in a bidding war for him....We're saying he's worth taking a look at if the price is inexpensive and you're done your homework on him. But in reality if you were guessing, do you see a team offering him a multi-year big contract? I don't. Because of the circumstances surrounding his departure from the Titans, his next contract will be very team friendly IMO.

Educated guess would be he signs a Multi year incentative ladden contract. Likely to be team friendly due to off and on the field problems and I'd actually expect him to perform in year one of his deal. It's year two that you need to prepare for

People need to remember the kind of coach Jeff Fisher is. Jeff Fisher is was and forever will be considered a players coach. A guy that the locker room respects, a guy who the players out perform better for, and a guy with an open door policy for everyone and Vince Young couldn't handle him.

How can anyone can think that VY can thrive under Shanny but couldn't handle Fisher?

[jivelikenice]

Too many to name but you can start with McNabb and Beck and likely Grossman soon for the QB's if your serious about asking that question about who Allen's signed to multi year deals because 2 out of 3 aint bad lol

I said big multi-years deals but did you really reference the Beck extensions? LOLLL. You mean beck's 2-year $2.25 MM extension which wasn't even a raise from his previous salary?

And McNabb's extension was a creatively structured deal that gave us some leverage. If he had stepped up in the 2nd half of the season we'd have him signed long-term and if he didn't (which he did not) then we'd have an out with no further financial obligation due to McNabb. it also gave us a little leverage in a tough situation because we now may at least be able to get back a draft pick for him.

If you're sighting a possible Rex future extension to make your argument then I know you're reaching. Maybe you should use Trent Williams multi-year deal as your next example? LOL

[addicted]

I love how people give Vince minimal credit and say he's had a great D and running game to get him his wins when the facts just don't support that:

Probably you love that about as much as I love seeing people constantly make cases like you did here that total wins mean a QB's good. There is not a direct correlation or cause effect for QB's and team wins. But I know from this post that you can't see that. As for his superior play in those "wins" this past year just check here:

http://www.nfl.com/players/vinceyoung/gamelogs?id=YOU617196

In the 4 wins Young started for Tennessee this year he never passed for 200 or more yards in a single game or got credit for the wins and one he was immediately knocked out of:

Game 1 - Oakland headline reads "Raiders unable to contain Chris Johnson"

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010091205/2010/REG1/raiders@titans

Game 2 - Giants headline reads "A Titanic Defensive Effort"

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010092600/2010/REG3/titans@giants

Game 3 - Dallas headline reads "Johnson back on track"

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010101010/2010/REG5/titans@cowboys

Game 4 - Jacksonville

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010101800/2010/REG6/titans@jaguars

"JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- The Tennessee Titans easily won the battle of backup quarterbacks Monday night in a 30-3 victory that put them in a three-way tie atop the AFC South. Vince Young was knocked out of the game against the Jacksonville Jaguars on the second series with a sprained left knee,"

The reason people don't give Young credit like you want is because he wasn't the primary reason they won those games. As for CJ production I believe when Young was in the game they relied more on the rushing game then when Collins was starting and they opened the passing game more. Look at the rush attempts per game with the two different QB's starting and let me know if I'm right

---------- Post added May-7th-2011 at 01:23 PM ----------

I said big multi-years deals

Who cares about "big money" deals? Really do we have something that says we have to spend big on the QB position you can refer me too? If so share it.

And really McNabb's deal was a big money deathblow. After signing that deal last year he suddenly is just too expensive to keep. If you don't consider that a "big money" deal then you don't get my point here about the ramifications and consequences about us signing Vince Young when considering next years draft or even comprehend what you are even saying. Who did we sign to a big money deal last year? McNabb. Whats your point?

[SkinsTribeVA]

Too many people put wins on the QB when reality is rarely this simple.

Here's the real story about Vince Young:

Vince Youngs never played a 16 game season in his 5 years of active football and besides the times he didn't start due to disciplinary reasons has missed games due to injuries

Vince Youngs has passed for over 300 yards in a single game only twice in his career

Vince Youngs has thrown three TD's in a single game only once in his career

The Tennessee Titans over the past 5 years have had very good Defenses and Outstanding rushing attacks. By comparison those numbers look worse then Jason Campbell's before he left us. Youngs started over 50 games already.

Does he? I don't think so. He was great in college but hasn't shown much of anything on the field since his rookie season, imo

Fact: the teams that VY had a 30-17 record with were 15-18 without him. 13 of those 15 wins without VY came in the season that Kerry Collins led the team to 13-3. Lightning in a bottle. You know what happened the next season? The Titans started out 0-6 until VY was named starter by the owner--they went 8-2 after that.

Regardless of VY's stats, he's a winner when mentally/emotionally stable.

Show me stats that support the fact that VY had great defenses and running games backing him up. The season Chris Johnson went for 2000+ yards was the same season the team went from 0-6 under Kerry Collins to 8-2 under VY. The difference maker?--VY.

[psu2008]

He may win, but I don't want him. I'd rather take my chances w/ Beck/Grossman and see what the 2012 Draft brings.

[jivelikenice]

Probably you love that about as much as I love seeing people constantly make cases like you did here that total wins mean a QB's good. There is not a direct correlation or cause effect for QB's and team wins. But I know from this post that you can't see that. As for his superior play in those "wins" this past year just check here:

http://www.nfl.com/players/vinceyoung/gamelogs?id=YOU617196

In the 4 wins Young started for Tennessee this year he never passed for 200 or more yards in a single game or got credit for the wins and one he was immediately knocked out of:

Game 1 - Oakland headline reads "Raiders unable to contain Chris Johnson"

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010091205/2010/REG1/raiders@titans

Game 2 - Giants headline reads "A Titanic Defensive Effort"

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010092600/2010/REG3/titans@giants

Game 3 - Dallas headline reads "Johnson back on track"

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010101010/2010/REG5/titans@cowboys

Game 4 - Jacksonville

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010101800/2010/REG6/titans@jaguars

"JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- The Tennessee Titans easily won the battle of backup quarterbacks Monday night in a 30-3 victory that put them in a three-way tie atop the AFC South. Vince Young was knocked out of the game against the Jacksonville Jaguars on the second series with a sprained left knee,"

The reason people don't give Young credit like you want is because he wasn't the primary reason they won those games. As for CJ production I believe when Young was in the game they relied more on the rushing game then when Collins was starting and they opened the passing game more. Look at the rush attempts per game with the two different QB's starting and let me know if I'm right

---------- Post added May-7th-2011 at 01:23 PM ----------

Who cares about "big money" deals? Really do we have something that says we have to spend big on the QB position you can refer me too? If so share it.

And really McNabb's deal was a big money deathblow. After signing that deal last year he suddenly is just too expensive to keep. If you don't consider that a "big money" deal then you don't get my point here about the ramifications and consequences about us signing Vince Young when considering next years draft or even comprehend what you are even saying. Who did we sign to a big money deal last year? McNabb. Whats your point?

I'm not hung up only on his W/L record. I'm hung up on the fact that his team performed better when he was in then when he wasn't They won more and the running game performed better. Yes, they ran more, but they also averaged more yards per carry and more rushing td's per game with Vince Young in the game. Your argument that the D was strong was absolutely wrong as they've been terrible the past two years. If VY was so inconsequential then why couldn't they win w/o him?

You also said we've handed out a bunch of multiyear deals when the only one of consequence was McNabb's. And how was McNabb's deal a big money deathblow when we're not obligated to pay him one more dime if we choose not to? Money isn't why we're not keeping him. We're not keeping him because the Shanahans don't think he's a fit for what they're trying to do on offense.

[zoony]

He may win, but I don't want him. I'd rather take my chances w/ Beck/Grossman and see what the 2012 Draft brings.

me too. I'd rather lose with the right guys than win with an whining little prima-donna *****.

...

[addicted]

me too. I'd rather lose with the right guys than win with an whining little prima-donna *****.

...

Can we please get a Like button? Pretty please? My friend you nailed it. Long term we are much better off not going after him

[jivelikenice]

me too. I'd rather lose with the right guys than win with an whining little prima-donna *****.

...

Who are the right guys? i'm all for giving Beck a chance but want no part of Rex. Rex's only advantage was knowing the system. he needs to show me he can lose some damn weight before I would call him one of the "right guys"

VY is also young and to not at least do your diligence is irresponsible. Vick was a prima donna at one point and look at him now....

[ThomasRoane]

It was said in another thread, I'll repeat it...

If he couldn't stand the fan criticism in Tennessee, he's got no chance here.

What you said...And! If VY couldn't play for Jeff Fisher how the hell is he gonna handle playing for Mike Shannahan?!?!

[Rypien1191]

I'm not worried about him from a W/L standpoint, but I'd be a bit concerned he'd come in and disrupt the process of Mike trying to clean up the riffraff/partying. If things go south with VY it may undermine what Mike is trying to do with the character of the team and I'm a bit worried about how other guys would react to it.

[jivelikenice]

I'm not worried about him from a W/L standpoint, but I'd be a bit concerned he'd come in and disrupt the process of Mike trying to clean up the riffraff/partying. If things go south with VY it may undermine what Mike is trying to do with the character of the team and I'm a bit worried about how other guys would react to it.

That's my only concern but I would hope that Mike & Kyle would have done their homework in that regard before bringing him in and the contract he signs protects us accordingly.

I also don't discount the possibility that guys can grow & mature at age 27. A lot of folks here seem to think people are who they are and they were probably the same folks posting "Hell no, if the Skins sign Vick I'm done"....

[addicted]

VY is also young and to not at least do your diligence is irresponsible

Agree but you need to know what you own. Reviewing VY's history and production in this league will keep many of us from agreeing with you about his value here.

We know the teams got too many needs this season to be considered a Superbowl contender, QB or not.

We know that this team needs a Franchise QB.

We know that as production goes for a QB compared to his peers VY produces near the bottom of the league and has been benched numerous times for poor play

We know that VY has serious issues on and off the field which includes depression, suicidal thoughts, fighting with his coaches and flipping out on his home town fans

What we don't know is if we should take a chance on him or how he would preform as a Redskin. Too many risks, not high enough reward. Reminds me of Randy Moss last year. Good thing we passed on him when we had the chance to pick him off waivers.

[DCchillin89]

There's obviously a culture change going on around Redskins park. No way Shanahan goes after an emotionally unstable me-first kind of guy that, oh yeah, happens to play the most important position on the field as far as leadership goes.

[boofMcboof]

me too. I'd rather lose with the right guys than win with an whining little prima-donna *****.

...

Exactly. I'd rather go 3-13 next year and keep stocking young talent over 9-7 every year with Vince Young and waste away another 15 wallowing in mediocrity. I'm glad we think along the same lines.