Lame rule change ... Brandon Banks value takes a hit

[MattFancy]

I want to apologize to Brandon Banks for having any doubt about it. He proved me wrong tonight. He deserves to make this team.

[Reaper 21]

im so glad people got to see that not everybody that returned in college is brandon banks. and everybody on es seems to be thinking correctly on this one.

[Conn]

im so glad people got to see that not everybody that returned in college is brandon banks. and everybody on es seems to be thinking correctly on this one.

You know, I'm coming around. The difference between he and Austin was staggering. And Austin actually had a good return, despite that.

I still don't think he'd be worth a roster spot on a team with better WR prospects, but we aren't one of those teams. He can fit here if we keep 6 WR's. As long as Stallworth isn't one of them. Because if he is, then we can't keep Austin OR Paul on the 53, which I find unacceptable.

[Rypien1191]

I wouldn't say its going to be an 80% touchback rate. The last year (1993) of 35 yard line kickoffs, the touchback rate was 27%. I think it will probably be in the 40-50% range this year. Think of the games in rough weather, wind, etc. Think of how many kicks WE'VE had in the past couple years that only make the 5, 10, 15 yard line.

I doubt our opponents punt strategy will change that much and if it does, thats still good for us. They're still trying to kick out of bounds so theres and advantage for us in terms of field position.

He's still top of the list currently on the PR/KR depth chart, so I'm not entirely sure he's gone.

:yes:

[cphil006]

Only for this year, if the rate of touchbacks will be as high as indicated by this game... they'll move it back... or perhaps they like the touchbacks better for less injuires?? :shrug:

[skinsfan35yrs.]

Kickoffs at the 35 now, making even a weak legged kicker able to boot it through the endzone.

you mean Graham Gano?

[SkinsFanInTennessee]

I actually disagree with the OP. I think this rule GREATLY INCREASES Brandon Banks value. Think about it...How many return men in the league do you know that can bring a ball out from 8 yards deep in the end zone? Speed kills, and also paired with the new rule, that the kicking team's coverage team only gets a 5 yard running start, means when a kick off doesn't sail through the end zone, there will be more room, (and holes created), for a small, quick, speedy guy like BB.

[CrypticVillain]

Kickoffs at the 35 now, making even a weak legged kicker able to boot it through the endzone.

you mean Graham Gano?

The problem with Gano is not his leg.

[Stew]

I actually disagree with the OP. I think this rule GREATLY INCREASES Brandon Banks value. Think about it...How many return men in the league do you know that can bring a ball out from 8 yards deep in the end zone? Speed kills, and also paired with the new rule, that the kicking team's coverage team only gets a 5 yard running start, means when a kick off doesn't sail through the end zone, there will be more room, (and holes created), for a small, quick, speedy guy like BB.

You know, I have been killing, absolutely killing BB this offseason. Ive said he is overrated, should be cut because of his lack of contribution as a WR, and I even propped my dislike up with this new rule change and kickoff position. Well, Brandon Banks made me eat crow last night. I thought that because of his recent knee issues and being in the hospital after the brawl over wearing white after Labor Day, that he may have lost a step. Not so. If this is what we can expect on every kick off, then we may have to keep him. I was dead wrong. Some may say that im having a knee jerk reaction after one preseason game, for me to change my stance so quickly. To that i say, well I think i just may have been wrong in the first place, and Im not above admitting that. I may have written Banks off too soon.

However,this creates a log-jam at the WR position, and Im a little worried that Hanky or Niles Paul may be put on the PS and scooped up off waivers. Stallworth is going to be a casualty of not playing ST, dispite running good routes. Gaffney is very reliable, goes accross the middle, and we need a reciever that can do that. He has made a career of that. Is there a chance that Armstrongs job is in jeapordy? Austin to the PS? He looked very productive out there last night as well.

[Wyvern]

It will be interesting to monitor the rule's impact on kick returns, during the pre-season. If anything, this boosts the stock of strong-legged kickers, assuming they can get it out of the endzone.

Banks looked impressive. Still, I wondered about what was going on in his head when he ran out that kick he caught around 7 yards deep in the endzone. (I know the how the stats were recorded, but it looked closer to 7, than 6) . A surprise decision, but to his credit, Banks pulled it off. ....Still, I wonder what his coaches thought about that gamble.

Most of all, I was glad to see that Banks knee isn't bothering him -- at least he'll get his chance to win a roster spot. That said, when opponents get closer to their traditional game level shape and system discipline, that might neutralize the cuts and speed Banks exhibited in this pre-season game.

[2STaylor1]

this could also mean the punt return game is gains a lot more value... especially when we get in to field position battles

[Califan007 The Constipated]

However,this creates a log-jam at the WR position, and Im a little worried that Hanky or Niles Paul may be put on the PS and scooped up off waivers. Stallworth is going to be a casualty of not playing ST, dispite running good routes. Gaffney is very reliable, goes accross the middle, and we need a reciever that can do that. He has made a career of that. Is there a chance that Armstrongs job is in jeapordy? Austin to the PS? He looked very productive out there last night as well.

As good as Stallworth looked last night, I wouldn't be upset with the Skins not keeping him on the squad and keeping Austin instead. I also wouldn't be against keeping 6 WRs (or 5 WR and a KR). Moss, Gaffney, Armstrong, Hankerson, Austin, Banks (KR)...Paul on PS.

[s0crates]

Banks looked impressive. Still, I wondered about what was going on in his head when he ran out that kick he caught around 7 yards deep in the endzone. (I know the how the stats were recorded, but it looked closer to 7, than 6) . A surprise decision, but to his credit, Banks pulled it off. ....Still, I wonder what his coaches thought about that gamble.

Shanny said it was a "good decision."

[CrypticVillain]

It will be interesting to monitor the rule's impact on kick returns, during the pre-season. If anything, this boosts the stock of strong-legged kickers, assuming they can get it out of the endzone.

Banks looked impressive. Still, I wondered about what was going on in his head when he ran out that kick he caught around 7 yards deep in the endzone. (I know the how the stats were recorded, but it looked closer to 7, than 6) . A surprise decision, but to his credit, Banks pulled it off. ....Still, I wonder what his coaches thought about that gamble.

Most of all, I was glad to see that Banks knee isn't bothering him -- at least he'll get his chance to win a roster spot. That said, when opponents get closer to their traditional game level shape and system discipline, that might neutralize the cuts and speed Banks exhibited in this pre-season game.

I have an idea of how kickoffs should be returned now. It should be similar to Punt Returns. Instead of having the last blocker say when to run, it should now be up to the KR. The gamble will be bigger because you can end up running out and being stuffed at the five yard line, but it should be up to the coaches to teach the player when they should or shouldn't take it out and adjust the blocking schemes.

[Backpack3r]

That rule is pretty dumb. I hope they change it back after this season, it completely takes out a phase of the game. Looks like there is going to be an 80%+ touchback ratio this year, pretty pathetic.

[Dan T.]

Shanny said it was a "good decision."

Here's why. It was a low, line-drive kick. (Which I suspect we'll see more of this season as kickers try to reach the end zone with the extra 5 yards the new rule gives them.)

Don't forget too that the new rule limits the kickoff coverage team to lining up only 5 yards back from the spot of the kick. That's a part of the rule change that people forget. So they no longer get a 10 yard or longer run-up, so they're not flying full speed at the instant the kicker kicks the ball. They only have 5 yards to build up a head of steam, which delays their downfield coverage a bit.

[justice98]

I actually disagree with the OP. I think this rule GREATLY INCREASES Brandon Banks value. Think about it...How many return men in the league do you know that can bring a ball out from 8 yards deep in the end zone? Speed kills, and also paired with the new rule, that the kicking team's coverage team only gets a 5 yard running start, means when a kick off doesn't sail through the end zone, there will be more room, (and holes created), for a small, quick, speedy guy like BB.

But how often do you think he's really going to be taking it out that deep in the endzone? When the games start counting for real, I envision Shanahan and Co. frowning on that practice. If you weren't inclined to do it before the rule change, why would they all the sudden be condoning it now?

And also, I think BB knows taking a knee isn't gonna help his case to make the team. The Steelers weren't giving him a whole lot to work with and when you're on the bubble, playing it safe will get you cut. I think he took a knee the first time, but I was betting money he'd say screw it and return one out of the endzone anyway and he did.

[Darth Tater]

In another post, I indicated that the new kickoff rules might enhance the returners of the Banks type. Most successful KR guys in the past tended to return kicks like RBs hitting a seam on a set-piece play. Most of the good PR guys can look down field and then keep themselves alive until a seam opens. The new kickoff rules make the KR more like returning a punt with the advantage that kickers have worse angles (they can't try to pin the returner into the corner like they can on a punt). If they kick it into the end-zone, you got up to 10 yards before you are totally committed. The shorter kickoff with bad angles may cause more special teams coaches to want their kickers to just whack the ball instead of getting good hang time and direction. Line drive kickoffs down the middle could actually create a huge advantage for scat back type return men who can stay alive longer and take advantage of very narrow seams by creating very bad angles for the defenders.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

But how often do you think he's really going to be taking it out that deep in the endzone? When the games start counting for real, I envision Shanahan and Co. frowning on that practice. If you weren't inclined to do it before the rule change, why would they all the sudden be condoning it now?

Well, consider that usually no more than one or two kick-offs a game would land 5 yards deep in the end zone...now, damn near all of the kick-offs will end up deep in the end zone.

If you take a stance now of "never run back a kickoff that's deep in the end zone", you've basically surrendered a part of your team before the games have even started. This new rule basically requires coaches to re-consider the importance of returning (or not returning) kick-offs that sail into the end zone.

That's where a returner like Banks becomes more valuable. Kick returners who are legitimate threats to take it to the house will become even MORE valuable than kick returners who consistently get 28 yards per return (which is good in the NFL). The difference between them, and some schlub just taking a knee 5 yards deep in the end zone, is a net gain of only 3 yards.

---------- Post added August-13th-2011 at 12:42 PM ----------

In another post, I indicated that the new kickoff rules might enhance the returners of the Banks type. Most successful KR guys in the past tended to return kicks like RBs hitting a seam on a set-piece play. Most of the good PR guys can look down field and then keep themselves alive until a seam opens. The new kickoff rules make the KR more like returning a punt with the advantage that kickers have worse angles (they can't try to pin the returner into the corner like they can on a punt). If they kick it into the end-zone, you got up to 10 yards before you are totally committed. The shorter kickoff with bad angles may cause more special teams coaches to want their kickers to just whack the ball instead of getting good hang time and direction. Line drive kickoffs down the middle could actually create a huge advantage for scat back type return men who can stay alive longer and take advantage of very narrow seams by creating very bad angles for the defenders.

Excellent points, sir :applause:...

[Rypien1191]

Bankrupt? There was a kickoff return TD in the first game of preseason last night. I wouldn't say its bankrupt.

He's still a threat at PR and I'm sure he still has carte blanche to take back anything from 5 yards in the end zone. And with a shorter running start, it takes the coverage team longer to get downfield. Not to mention at training camp we've been hearing he's been getting behind the secondary and hauling in deep passes.

It's a bad rule, sure, but he's still a threat back there.

In the words of Lana from Archer.... YYYYYYUUUPPPPPP!

[MarkB452]

They should disallow downing the ball in the end zone. If you catch it, you gotta bring it out. If you want to let it hit the ground and HOPE it goes out, you do so at your own peril as that is a live ball.

This is going to be as boring as punt returns were in the 1970's before they changed the rule that only the 2 outside guys could downfield before the ball was kicked. This greatly cut down on the number of (boring) fair catches.