According to Profootballtalk.com: Atogwe will visit the Redskins Monday

[The Tris]

see to me saying Ryan harris as our sole big name FA is stupid.. cause basically your saying if we were to resign Jamaal Brown then we shouldnt sign anyone in the FA pool.. is that what your saying?

I would not resign Brown. He is injury prone and will be over 30 when the season starts.

Signing a 25 year old free agent who was drafted by our HC would be the single best "big name" signing we could make.

[SkinsHokieFan]

ryan clark flourished with the number 1 defense.. and best defensive coordinator in all of football.. lol

He also performed 15 times better then AA ever did for 1/15th of the cost

I'll wait to see if we do sign him and what the numbers are. This move doesn't make any sense to me though.

Getting a 26 year old Ryan Khalil at C or a 27 year old Solai at NT makes quite a bit more sense

---------- Post added February-21st-2011 at 03:42 PM ----------

Well, some of you get awfully excited to shoot down nearly every move this FO makes (*pew pew!*) At the end of the day, some folks here are basically saying they know better than Bruce Allen and Mike Shannahan. It's as simple as that. They're saying *this and that* is WRONG, and *this* is the way to do it. I'm sorry, but I'm taking Bruce and Mike's judgement over yours. Vinny? No. Some of you have forgotten he's not here anymore.

Read my post history. I really don't "shoot down every move the FO makes"

Thats not my style

[blindlywewander]

Yes there is a level of transition.

But the cost of a front line 30 year old FA is a poor investment. This team won't compete in 2011, and probably won't in 2012 either since we didn't bite the bullet last year.

If Shanallahan do things right with the draft, this team will be ready in 2013 and by then OJ is a 33 year old FS.

Bruce Allen isn't the same GM as Vinny was. He isn't going to go out and spend some ridiculous amount of guaranteed money. I just don't believe it. Look at the money he saved us last off season, and then again during the season with the McNabb restructuring. He's not going to break the bank.

Also, is 33 really that old? Damn.

Even if we do sign him to a four, even five year deal, you know it'll be front-loaded with incentives all throughout. We'll get 2 or 3 seasons out of him and if he begins to falter due to age (which seems to be a huge snagging point for you haters), then cut him with little to no cap ramifications. We've got a limited number of draft picks. Safety likely won't be addressed with those picks. It's not unwise to spend money on a guy who can come in and perform while you transition into the 'youth movement'.

[santana_4_prez]

Giving up after 1 year of starting? Really :doh:

And here is the other thing...we don't have to add starters at each position. Patience actually is a virtue, improving in increments actually isn't a bad thing.

You do enough of that and you have a big leap forward like the Chiefs did after being patient in 2008 and 2009

Chiefs had one of the easiest schedules in NFL history and I'm not even sure they beat a team with a winning record. They got embarrassed at home in the playoffs. We'll see how they do this year...I wouldn't crown them a model franchise quite yet.

[Mackdaddydean]

So when can we sign this guy so we can all stop ****ing about not being patient, building through the draft, too many FA signings, not enough FA signings, CBA worries, "Championship!" cries, Gloom and Doom cries, people being idiots or armchair GMs?

[Koolblue13]

Giving up after 1 year of starting? Really :doh:

And here is the other thing...we don't have to add starters at each position. Patience actually is a virtue, improving in increments actually isn't a bad thing.

You do enough of that and you have a big leap forward like the Chiefs did after being patient in 2008 and 2009

The Chiefs had a new coach come in, then added a few big FAs and year 2 they were solid.

[aarobinson]

OJ's physical talents aside, I'm excited to potentially get a FS who actually knows the defense and can get players in the right spots.

[Dro89]

I would not resign Brown. He is injury prone and will be over 30 when the season starts.

Signing a 25 year old free agent who was drafted by our HC would be the single best "big name" signing we could make.

LOL so your plan would be if we missed out on Harris to NOT resign brown?

[tml6157]

Sign Ryan Harris as our sole "big" FA.

Any other FA deals we hand out are of the 1 or 2 year variety.

Cull these rosters looking for the next Tramon Williams or James Harrison.

Trade out of the 10th pick in the 2011 draft to acquire more picks. Draft heavy on the offensive lines and defensive front seven.

Draft a young QB in the middle rounds.

As distasteful as it may be, roll with Rex Grossman or John Beck at QB, but have the rookie as the #2 on gamedays.

And above all, be patient.

I like the Harris signing, althought I dont see him as a "big" signing because it will cost less then resigning Brown who is said to be looking for LT $, so I support your Harris signing.

Who would be those 1-2 year signings?

Finding your next Williams and Harrison is catching lightning in a bottle. Pittsburgh and GB didnt sign those two players with the vision of the players they would be today. Neither FO signed them ready to pencil in as starters. Both teams lucked out with them. Any team banking on that happening will come away unsatisfied 999 out of 1000 times.

I also would like to trade down if the chance presented itself, for more picks.

I would also like to just use Grossman for the year. It wouldnt be unquestionable for him to overachieve for the year.

[The Tris]

LOL so your plan would be if we missed out on Harris to NOT resign brown?

Harris would be my number one priority.

Any team looking to sign Brown would be looking at Harris first.

If we get outbid or Harris decides he doesn't want to play for the coach whom he had his greatest success under, then I consider Brown. If Brown still wants LT money, then I have to realistically consider drafting a RT at 10 or 41.

[wrecker]

I don't know what sort of FA people realistically want the skins to sign... It's not like there are a host of young, studly, cheap FA's available. That's not how the NFL works.

And not signing any FA's is not an option -- every team signs FA's, even the Patriots. Yes, the posterchildren of "build through the draft" sign plenty of FA's, including old and busted reclamation projects, big name busts, the whole range.

I think the point everyone is missing is that signing free agents wasn't the problem in the past as musch as trading away draft picks. I agree we need to build through the draft as well as make good smart free agent signings. You need to have veteran free agents to plug the holes and also tutor the young draft picks. The problem in the past is we didn't have any young draft picks to tutor because we traded them all away. I think this is a smart signing considering OJ / Haslet connection.

[blindlywewander]

Getting a 26 year old Ryan Khalil at C or a 27 year old Solai at NT makes quite a bit more sense

Well obviously. But those guys aren't available currently. If/when free agency occurs, then I'm certain these moves (or ones like it) will occur as well. But one signing before the FA period even begins does not define the Skins' strategy for building the team.

[Dallascrushers]

There's nothing flawed about using FA to build your team along with the draft. There IS something wrong with totally discrediting FA and being scarred to sign talented players at positions of need.

I certainly hope we spend money like crazy when the CBA gets done and don't understand why you wouldn't as well. This is the biggest most talent filled FA class in years due to last years CBA crap that had all those players like Carlos and Rocky extended one more year when they would have hit the market. Of all the years to be spending money in FA THIS IS THE YEAR. We have tons of cap space with all of our roster cleaning and releasing of old fat contracts with plenty of holes to fill. There's nothing wrong with bringing in the right talent, guys that fit the scheme, or young potential in FA, nothing. Quit hating.

Agree totally with your post man....I think we get the best available talent at the best price....and don't give away any of our draft picks in trades....I see in earlier posts about building through the draft (totally true but way to many holes to fill with the amount of picks we have)...so fill some holes in free agency (with the right players) and don't trade for any players (we need all the picks we have)

[darrelgreenie]

What youth do we have at FS to develop? Moore can't tackle but can cover and Doughty can tackle but can't cover, AKA great depth players but not starting material.

Why even bother responding to a post if your answer is rhetorical?

The youth we have at S are the exact people you mentioned Moore, Doughty and Horton.

Lets not pretend that the S spot was our main weakness on defense.

We have a hole at FS and Atogwe at 29 early 30 would be a great fit filling our need at FS with his connection to Haslett and being the natural FS play maker that he is to pair with our stud young developing SS LaRon. What's not to like?

Actually we don't have a hole at S we have holes at RDE, NT, RT, OC/RG.

Signing Atogwe is a spuerfluous move.

FA is a zero sum game there is a cap.

Signing player X for X amount of dollars and cap space reduces the ability to sign other players.

Is OJ an upgrade? Yes.

Is he that much better then a healthy Kareem Moore? We don't know b/c the team rushed Moore back on the field early following his knee surgery.

Will upgrading a S spot provide greater impact then addressing other areas of more pressing need? No

[tml6157]

Any team looking to sign Brown would be looking at Harris first.

How so? Harris has a down year last year in the power scheme that Denver ran. If a team is looking for a LT/RT then Brown would be the way to go since he has been successful in both schemes before AND got stronger as the year went on last year.

BTW I want Harris over Brown.

[The Tris]

Who would be those 1-2 year signings?

Hell, I'm not that smart - I'd look for players who can add depth and spot start like Buchanon and Holliday, and guys with history in the 3-4 and ZBS (as those are the areas I would looked to add the most depth). I'd just use the 1-2 year rule to ensure that I was getting cost effective depth.

Finding your next Williams and Harrison is catching lightning in a bottle. Pittsburgh and GB didnt sign those two players with the vision of the players they would be today. Neither FO signed them ready to pencil in as starters.

And I wouldn't expect anyone we sign off a practice squad to immediately come in and start. Apparently we have a coach with an eye for talent - well, he and the scouting department should be pouring over tape and bringing in handfuls of guys to give them a tryout. I'd rather use the several million I would overpay some aging name free agent to bring in 20 hungry practice squaders for a fraction the price.

[papaSkins27]

This move doesn't make any sense to me though.

Getting a 26 year old Ryan Khalil at C or a 27 year old Solai at NT makes quite a bit more sense

How can one of the leagues best FS that played his best ball under our current DC, that got released due to a money issue not injury or anything of the field related, be hard to understand? It's pretty ****ing simple. We don't have a FS on our roster and Atogwe is a great one that fits here, simple as that.

Why can't we do both? You're saying we can't throw a reasonable contract at Soliai and see if he bites as well as bring in Atogwe and a Ryan Harris or Davin Joseph? Because I disagree and see no reason why we couldn't do all of the above (Kalil probably gets franchised so I'm pulling for bringing in Samson Satele instead). I think people are underestimating how much cap space we will have after Carter / Haynesworth / etc. and the rest are washed off our hands. We have a new regime with two new schemes in place on both sides of the ball, the coaching staff evaluated all of last year our homegrown talent and now should be given the opportunity to bring in THEIR guys that will fit in this new teams plans going forward. Fans should be behind this movement not fear it.

[The Tris]

Wait wait wait, now Atogwe is one of the leagues best safeties?

[papaSkins27]

Why even bother responding to a post if your answer is rhetorical?

The youth we have at S are the exact people you mentioned Moore, Doughty and Horton.

Lets not pretend that the S spot was our main weakness on defense.

Actually we don't have a hole at S we have holes at RDE, NT, RT, OC/RG.

Signing Atogwe is a spuerfluous move.

FA is a zero sum game there is a cap.

Signing player X for X amount of dollars and cap space reduces the ability to sign other players.

Is OJ an upgrade? Yes.

Is he that much better then a healthy Kareem Moore? We don't know b/c the team rushed Moore back on the field early following his knee surgery.

Will upgrading a S spot provide greater impact then addressing other areas of more pressing need? No

I never said safety was our main weakness but denying the obvious lack of consistency and blatant mistakes that were made at the position under said names would be foolish. I like Doughty and Moore I think they're great rotational players that will step up when necessary, but to think suddenly they will become all-pros or even reliable starters when we've seen them in spot duty for 2 years is assuming a lot.

I totally agree though that RDE, NT, RT, OC/RG are bigger needs then FS and hope we address those positions in both the draft and picking up young studs in FA. But that fact that we have bigger needs still doesn't apply to why bringing in a top 10 FS that fits the scheme at a obviously lacking position is a bad thing.

[rumplestilskin]

"Actually we don't have a hole at S we have holes at RDE, NT, RT, OC/RG.

Signing Atogwe is a spuerfluous move.

FA is a zero sum game there is a cap.

Signing player X for X amount of dollars and cap space reduces the ability to sign other players."

Saying we dont have a hole at safety just because Moore is there doesn't mean that the hole doesn't exist. He didn't show up last year because you figure he was rushed back from injury too soon? Laron balled out basicly on one leg so I would have to say Moore had been afforded time to show us what he has to offer. He is not anywhere near ready to come close to a player like OJ. I would say that Bryant showed that he could fill the hole at Nose tackle more than Moore showed he was a compitent free safety.

[Coolio47]

TKextremeskins TK

Hearing #redskins aint just kicking tires on OJ.

How many of you had this reaction after reading this?

0MiVjitccnE

[tml6157]

Matt Bowen, our own former safety, wrote a great piece about how OJ would fit here and a developing league trend. Its a great read:

If the Redskins sign O.J. Atogwe, they would get a player who can give them ballhawking sills -- and help them adapt to an evolving passing game in the NFL.

So says former Redskins safety Matt Bowen. He touched on the Redskins being a good fit for Atogwe in his National Football Post column. And, because I found him to be one of the most insightful players I've covered, I asked him to expand on Atogwe for Redskins Confidential. Atogwe was released by St. Louis last week for financial reasons.

First, my take: Atogwe does things that Kareem Moore wasn't able to do this past season. How much of that was because of Moore's knee injury? Before he got hurt, Moore looked good. But that was also in training camp and it's not uncommon for guys to look good in the summer and not in the season. Is he a developing talent or a guy better used as a backup?

But how much money should they spend on a safety? Do they view free agency -- once again -- as the way to fill every need? That hasn't worked in the past; it won't work this year; it won't work in the future. Until they commit to building through the draft the franchise will be stuck in the ways of selling hope in the offseason and explaining disappointment during the season.

But ... what if there is no free agency, or if it's just limited? Then this is a chance, right now, to sign a player who is an upgrade. With no free safety worth taking at No. 10 -- and with bigger needs, why would you? -- then this is a way to get better. And, in my mind, he's a better fit than Bob Sanders simply because of Sanders' injury history.

Enter Bowen.

Here are two reasons why he says Atogwe would be a big upgrade:

Ball skills. “If you watch him on tape you can see he takes good angles to the ball. That’s not discussed enough. It comes down to technique. He plays with solid technique, takes good angles and players who do that are always around the ball. You see guys that don’t – like me for instance – who can get too tall in their backpedal, don’t read routes fast enough and when they do read the route they don’t get there on time because they take sloppy routes. But he takes those good angles to the ball and he will go after the ball. He’s not going there just to play his position. He’s going there to make a play.”

My take: Moore's angles weren't very good, particularly vs. the run, and that meant few plays were made. Again, is that inexperience and his injury? Or is this who he is?

Back to Bowen.

Empty sets. Before the Super Bowl, I talked to Bowen about the matchup. One point he made: when a team goes to empty sets, a defense often checks out of whatever they had called into a cover-2. That means less ability to blitz vs. that formation.

That sets up Bowen's next take:

“If you want to make the secondary better, you have to have a free safety. I go back to the Super Bowl. How many times did you see Green Bay line up in empty sets? How man times did you see Pittsburgh in empty sets? That’s where the league is going. It’s a lot different from when I played. You have eto come down and cover, you have to have more man to man skills. You have to sometimes leave your base personnel on the field to play against three wide receivers.

“Going back to the Super Bowl, those deep inside breaking routes, you have to have someone there that makes you think twice about throwing it. Think how many routes Ed Reed takes away. There are certain routes that you can’t throw vs. Baltimore because Ed takes great angles. If you do throw that route, it’s a blow-up hit or an interception. Having that guy in the middle of the field gives you that advantage. When you don’t have to check to cover 2 every time a team goes to empty … it helps your corners.”

Bowen said he didn't think Atogwe was the best tackler. And he's not a phsyical player. But he also said pairing him with a safety coach such as Steve Jackson would help him.

“He puts you in the toughest position possible and shows you what you’ve got. You’re challenged every day. Some coaches don’t do that. Some let the veterans run practice and let the veterans run drills. He doesn’t give special treatment to anyone. He worked us like we all just got into the league. He keeps you humble every day. And one thing I learned about Steve the most, and it’s not practiced enough, is you work on technique every day. That’s huge. You forget that when you’re a pro. You become a better student of the game, but he works on footwork and hands and teaches you how to blitz.

“I remember in ’05 when we beat Dallas down there. I thought I played a good game. He crushed me in meetings. Even our game to open the season vs. Tampa. I had a couple sacks and was confident going into meetings. No. He doesn’t allow you to get too high. He’d say, you had a sack here but on the next play this isn’t good enough. He’s open and honest with players.”

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/nfl/2011/02/bowen-atogwe-good-fit#ixzz1Ed7I2j4o

[papaSkins27]

Wait wait wait, now Atogwe is one of the leagues best safeties?

Even if OJ's middle of the pack (top 10-15, though it's debatable he could be considered top 10) that's a big upgrade for our last place defense and a huge part of giving Haslett the players that he knows will fit his scheme. Not just forcing Haslett to work with our late round draft picks against some of the leagues best offenses.

[The Tris]

Even if OJ's middle of the pack (top 10-15, though it's debatable he could be considered top 10) that's a big upgrade for our last place defense and a huge part of giving Haslett the players that he knows will fit his scheme. Not just forcing Haslett to work with our late round draft picks against some of the leagues best offenses.

Of course he is an upgrade.

His signing in a vacuum makes us a better team.

However, it also makes us an older team, and it takes reps away from young players to develop as a long term starter.

[NewCliche21]

I don't see how people are saying that free safety isn't a big hole for us. We lost the Titans game because we didn't have a free safety. We nearly lost the first Eagles game. Moore just wasn't the answer at all, and Barnes is a corner.

If you have a need, and you have a player who can fill it, then you do so. Nobody's saying that we should spend $100 million on him, but you don't not sign someone just to not sign someone. The money is there to be spent. Cap room doesn't win games; players do.