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Tunisian Revolution and the Middle East--And Now, The Withdrawal From Afghanistan (M.E.T.)

jpyaks3

By jpyaks3
in The Tailgate

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Jumbo

Jumbo

Posted
Posted

this has nothing to do with cowgirl's posts, and refers to 'conservatives' in any venue who are currently piling on biden's admin with venom (which has a good chunk of valid to it if done properly) and yet have not done the same for the legion of atrocities that has been the trump admin and the gop, too, from 2015's campaign through trump's admin and up to this day

 

 i don't care what political designation you choose, to me it's a negative tell of your cognitive acuity and dependability, and your 'character' as a socialized human, if i haven't seen/heard you the last 5 years going on about a lot of the things the trump admin did in every sector of governing 

 

i don't really care much about any of that sort's takes on biden's admin even if they're on point

 

i won't dismiss the point, but i def dismiss the individual and award them no merit of any kind whatsoever

 

in fact, that just confirms to me how their brain can produce valid critical thinking when is suits them but they're otherwise enslaved to their dysfunctional partisanship, and in this case, for the sick brand that 'american conservatism' has been becoming for a long time and has hit its peak development so far under trumpworld 

 

meanwhile, i agree with mike semrconish and many other non-lefties that however this was done or by whom there would be one form or another of a horror show that was going to take place when put into motion...but i also do think this could have been better planned and much better communicated to the public, even now, even as complex, tense, and demanding as the situation is...and it's hugely so...but that's the job and when you run for the free world's leader and claim a high level of competency in governing as a key attribute like joe & co did, then you have to take your time on the hook and getting skewered in such messes

 

 the level of human tragedy is debilitating  to people who care, as has been the tragedy of this war for 20-plus years for all players from anywhere

 

there are no antiseptic solutions for ending this kind of quagmire, but the name of the game is to give it a superhuman effort and achieve the best result possible and do so in a way that's clearly visible and well communicated, then reassess later (the after action reports), find errors, make as much public as security concerns allow, and own them

 

but i also understand that in the end, regarding such complex matters,  the better ways are often born from the gifts of hindsight and learning the stuff that you just couldn't know for sure until it happened

 

 

i dunno if the biden admin will repair some of this, or most of it, or if it will just get worse yet and they'll carry it as a major smear on their admin that the gopers will use to beat the whole agenda (inc free and fair elections) down...that's what concerns me most, frankly

 

anyone (imv) who cares about basic human decency and small-d democracy should be pulling for them to survive this and not want to see what happens if the gop gets back in control of the gov't at this time

 

even non-dems who may typically detest most of their policies and some of their 'cultural takes' should think long and hard about still pulling for the gop at large because that's consciously supporting something far worse these days than "the dems"

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TradeTheBeal!

TradeTheBeal!

Posted
Posted

If you wanna know why we have some members who are feigning outrage currently and had nothing to say about Pompeo back in the day, well the answer is simple.  The media sources that utterly control every thought or narrative that enters their head didn’t tell them to.

 

Nothing more or less.

 

 

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hail2skins

hail2skins

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

If you wanna know why we have some members who are feigning outrage currently and had nothing to say about Pompeo back in the day, well the answer is simple.  The media sources that utterly control every thought or narrative that enters their head didn’t tell them to.

TTB, it would be dishonest to deny that Pompeo's crap deal contributed to this fiasco.

 

It would also be dishonest to deny that if this situation was occurring on Trump's watch, you'd have pages and pages of posts on here reaming his Administration. 

 

Jumbo's post was very good, IMO 

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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

 

It would also be dishonest to deny that if this situation was occurring on Trump's watch, you'd have pages and pages of posts on here reaming his Administration. 

This is the truth.

 

Personally, I’m caught in the middle of Biden should be commended for doing something nobody else had the balls to do and just how sad we appear to have handled it.  Even the pressers have been sad, both the optics and information.  
 

Is it the stain on American history that Trumpers want and pretend it to be? No.

 

But it’s definitely a bad look for this administration if you are being fair.

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TradeTheBeal!

TradeTheBeal!

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, hail2skins said:

TTB, it would be dishonest to deny that Pompeo's crap deal contributed to this fiasco.

 

It would also be dishonest to deny that if this situation was occurring on Trump's watch, you'd have pages and pages of posts on here reaming his Administration. 

 

Jumbo's post was very good, IMO 


Everything that matters did occur under Trump’s watch.  If Biden pulls the deal and sends 10000 troops back over, the exact same doofuses are in here doing the exact same outrage pantomime because we’re still at war.

 

We are in a disinformation war and there’s way more at stake than anything that happened in Afghanistan.  You need to lose your naïveté quickly…before somebody loses it for you.

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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted

The Trump administration ran a negotiation process over with drawling from Afghanistan, and struck a deal from those negotiations, with the taliban. 
 

the Afghan government was not involved. 
 

I mean, what exactly was this supposed to look like? What’s the alternative idea that starts with the Afghan government not being involved?

 

what does that look like?

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TheGreatBuzz

TheGreatBuzz

Posted
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So we have been in a ****ty situation in Afghanistan for 20 years.  Trump is stupid and put is in an even ****ty-er situation.  Biden was handed said ****ty situation and made the decision he thought was best.  While the decision may have been right or wrong, it is being handled in a really bad way.  

 

Anyone disagree with this?  Just trying to figure out where we all stand.

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88Comrade2000

88Comrade2000

Posted
Posted

Biden botched the withdrawal.  There was intelligence that said Taliban would take over quickly?  Who knows if Biden got it of if he did; didn't believe it.

 

Once the Americans are all gone; this will be all forgotten. Out of sight and out of mind.  Americans won't give a ratts ass what happens there; after we are gone.

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CousinsCowgirl84

CousinsCowgirl84

Posted
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I think there were several easy things he could have done better, but Afghanistan was going to fall fast*, and Biden should have gotten his ducks in an order before making the announcement.

 

*I’m not claiming l knew or it was obvious to layman that Afghanistan was going to fall fast, but the people who shouldn’t have knew, knew it (intelligence agency) or chose not to (Biden)

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hail2skins

hail2skins

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

So we have been in a ****ty situation in Afghanistan for 20 years.  Trump is stupid and put is in an even ****ty-er situation.  Biden was handed said ****ty situation and made the decision he thought was best.  While the decision may have been right or wrong, it is being handled in a really bad way.  

 

Anyone disagree with this?  Just trying to figure out where we all stand.

At the end of the month WaPo writer Craig Whitlock is going to release "The Afghanistan Papers" book which should provide good insight.

 

I'm not sure how much withdrawing costs us in terms of CT capability. Any American serviceman dying is terrible, but the numbers on that front were thankfully low in recent years. But there is a substantial cost involved in maintaining the deployment and it seems like we were only there because of the scars of 9/11, even after killing UBL. So.......

 

Back to the current situation....seems like the NYT published an article yesterday that went into the decision making in recent months. Anyone get a chance to read it (I don't do the paywall stuff).

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The Sisko

The Sisko

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, hail2skins said:

TTB, it would be dishonest to deny that Pompeo's crap deal contributed to this fiasco.

 

It would also be dishonest to deny that if this situation was occurring on Trump's watch, you'd have pages and pages of posts on here reaming his Administration. 

 

Jumbo's post was very good, IMO 

And I’d be one of those folks for sure. Here’s the thing though. The difference between Tя☭mpers and those of us that have two brain cells to rub together is that we’ll admit it when our guy does something wrong/stupid. This is one of those times for Biden and I think you see most of us doing that in this thread. Biden hasn’t admitted the screw up yet, but he has taken full responsibility for the results. That’s way more than Tя☭mp has ever done, even for this fiasco where he shares a good part of the blame.

 

Biden wasn’t my first choice and some of his policy or lack thereof has been weak sauce. If given the chance and with the benefit of hindsight, I’d vote for him again over Tя☭mp a thousand times over.

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hail2skins

hail2skins

Posted
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3 hours ago, The Sisko said:

And I’d be one of those folks for sure. Here’s the thing though. The difference between Tя☭mpers and those of us that have two brain cells to rub together is that we’ll admit it when our guy does something wrong/stupid. This is one of those times for Biden and I think you see most of us doing that in this thread. Biden hasn’t admitted the screw up yet, but he has taken full responsibility for the results. That’s way more than Tя☭mp has ever done, even for this fiasco where he shares a good part of the blame.

 

Biden wasn’t my first choice and some of his policy or lack thereof has been weak sauce. If given the chance and with the benefit of hindsight, I’d vote for him again over Tя☭mp a thousand times over.

Sisko, I just thought the discussion was being more centered around the debate on whether we should've withdrawn or not, and not enough observation on the current situation in Kabul.

 

Biden has admitted that the decision on the timing of the withdrawal and the manner of which it has been executed rests with him.  I know Trump wouldn't have taken any responsibility....the guy is a jackass, we all know it, and I don't want the guy within sniffing range of the White House again. But we're past that.  I'm just curious to think what people are seeing/reading about what's going on now.

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AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

Posted
Posted

Biden will get skewered over the way he has handled this and rightfully so.

 

The right has no problem getting people to believe outright lies, it shouldn’t be hard for them to sell something that has an element of truth. 
 

Looking at the map, and the gerrymandering, and the new voter laws...it’s hard to feel anything but depressed as a liberal in this country. Biden could ill afford theses kinds of mistakes. Independents have already changed their tune. God help us.

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