Laron Burgundy Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Atlanta is a prime example of a team built primarily with just a qb. Compared to the horrible 2-14 team they were before Matt Ryan they have added a handful of starters: Ryan, Baker, Peters, Lofton, Bierman, Decoud, Moore, Weatherspoon, Dunta Robinson, Mike Peterson, Turner and Gonzalez. Robinson, Turner, and Gonzalez were all from FA or trades, so from the draft they've added Lofton, Baker, Peters, Bierman, Decoud, Moore and Weatherspoon. None of those guys are their stud playmakers. These guys are average nfl players at their positions. Weatherspoon and Moore may some day be something special, but for now they aren't on the level of Abraham, Gonzalez, Turner, or White. They've definitely filled out their roster from the desolate list it used to be, but that team has basically been built through FA and the maturation of Ryan. Luck is a much better prospect than Ryan was, and I suspect he'll be a better pro as well. We have the elite level talent (Williams, Orakpo, Hall, Landry, Haynesworth (he should be traded to help get Luck)), we should do sorta the opposite of Atlanta. Atlanta lacked elite talent outside of Abraham and White, as well as average starters at many positions and they lacked an elite qb. They just so happened to be in place for a good qb prospect so they didn't need to trade up, they could use FA to get elite players and then use the draft to fill in roster holes. We lack average starters at many positions and we lack a qb. We are a much better team than that 2-14 falcons squad was, but what we lack is even average players at OC, OG, DE, and NT. We don't have to go after superstars in FA, just grab some guys who will be competent starters, and trade what we need to to get our qb, and then we are set for the foreseeable future. Even if we give up all our picks the next two years, we can use FA to fill in our problem areas or perhaps even pick up another elite player or two and deal with not having the fresh-out-of-college talent that is normally a total crapshoot past round 2. If we don't do this, I guarantee you in 3 years Carolina, who is a terrible team right now, will be a better team than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
instinct21 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 No need for anymore draft threads...We will draft Jake Locker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 No need for anymore draft threads...We will draft Jake Locker. Lets hope not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I'd take Mallet as a fallback, but he won't be there later. He's listed on Mel's board at the #7 player in the draft. Quarterbacks are at a premium, and depending on how he plays in the bowl and performs in the pre-draft stuff, we might even have to trade up for him if he's the guy we target. Dude, not every team ahead of us in the draft that covets a QB will actually take one. There's this thing called free agency, ya know. Btw, your thread sucks. Especially the part where you said you'd give up three first round picks for Luck. Get real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruinSkin Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 In my opinion, you just cannot compare Hershel Walker/Ricky Williams to a move for Luck. It's probably most akin to a deal like the Giants did for Eli Manning. That worked out pretty well for them I'd say, and Eli is no where near the prospect of Luck. This guy is off the charts with his accuracy, mobility, and smarts. Much better physical prospect than Peyton Manning was coming out of college. The scary thing is that he's only a redshirt sophomore, so he has plenty of room for growth, especially under a coach like Shannahan. Shanny did a pretty good job with the last Stanford QB on his roster, let's pull the trigger. I'd give up this year's draft + next year's first and second for him. Easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 No secret I would of loved Sam Bradford last year. The best kid to come out since Peyton IMHO, and one who's adjusted pretty darn well to pro life. But there's NO WAY, as much as I craved him, I'd have been totally happy with this team doing a "Ditka like trade." I really wanted Jay Cutler, and still believe the Chicago Bears got a STEAL at 2 firsts and a third in return for a fifth with a swap of QB's. It's hard to put a price on a true franchise QB when one becomes available on the open market. Particularly a young one with the skill set to go right to the top. But Cutler had been a pro for 3 years by that stage, and had proven he could hack it in the pros. A college QB, no matter how good, is a different story all together. There's absolutely ZERO guarantee Luck will assimilate to life as a pro. He might look to have every attribute needed to play the position, and be coming off a great year, but it's still a gamble as to how he'll adjust to the pro game, which is WORLDS away from college ball. The list of "sure fire" busts is endless. I remember the late '90's telling anyone that would listen that the kid out of Kentucky, Tim Couch was gona' be the face of the NFL for the new millennium. Yeah, that one worked out real well. Heck, we had our own in Heath Shuler, who was ripping it up at TN before Peyton. He was a roaring success for that that overall pick. And if your talking trading up for how ever many first day picks over however many drafts the going rate is this year, it's a MAJOR gamble. Even more so when you have a complete rebuild going on such as ours. I crave a true franchise QB more than anything. And I don't know if Luck would or wouldn't be that guy. But all things considered, there's no way I'd like to find out at the price it would cost to look, no pun intended. Besides, Locker's Shanahan's man by all accounts ..... Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisgruntledLionFan#54,927 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Isn't it funny that almost every year there's prospects that are the absolute best since Peyton Manning/Randy Moss/any elite player? Generational talent is often tossed around along side. And every year fans eat it up. Take WRs. First it was Fitz, then CJ and now there is already talk that AJ Green is the best WR prospect since Randy. Such short memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruinSkin Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Isn't it funny that almost every year there's prospects that are the absolute best since Peyton Manning/Randy Moss/any elite player? Generational talent is often tossed around along side.And every year fans eat it up. Take WRs. First it was Fitz, then CJ and now there is already talk that AJ Green is the best WR prospect since Randy. Such short memories. Maybe Fitzgerald and Calvin aren't 'Moss' but they're certainly elite, Pro-Bowl caliber players. If Luck is that much of a miss, I think we'd be stupid not to consider making a move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisgruntledLionFan#54,927 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Unless he's like the "best LB prospect in a decade", Aaron Curry. A whole two years after Patrick Willis came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travdaskin Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Not much of a gambler like some of you, trading up and it fails sets you back a longgggggggggggggggggggggg time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I'm still not convinced they drafted Clausen in the 2nd Round last year. YEs they had a bad year, but they have holes all over the organization. They need a lot more than a QB if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 What do we have to offer.......D-Mac, Haynesworth and this year's entire draft; basically the #10 and #42 pick plus a bunch of 6th and 7th rounders???? That's probably not gonna be enough and I hope we don't start offering future year's picks. BUT I would make that deal if we could swing it. ---------- Post added January-4th-2011 at 11:10 AM ---------- Isn't it funny that almost every year there's prospects that are the absolute best since Peyton Manning/Randy Moss/any elite player? Generational talent is often tossed around along side.And every year fans eat it up. Take WRs. First it was Fitz, then CJ and now there is already talk that AJ Green is the best WR prospect since Randy. Such short memories. I hear ya brutha and agree with the sentiment of your post, but for the record, AJ Green is legit; just watch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffylookin Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 We talk about the Skins winning 3 Super Bowls with average quarterbacks a lot, but to an extent that is selling two of them short. Theismann was the league MVP once, and made two Pro Bowl squads. Rypien was arguably the best QB in the league in '91. Reality is only Williams was an "average" quarterback the year he led us to the Super Bowl. Can you win it with an average player at that position? Yes... Will you be in a position to have frequent chances at doing so? History says a resounding no. Well done. One of the sad things that I've seen happen in the last 25 years has been the erosion of Joe Theismann's status and contribution to the Redskins. Specifically his role in those early Gibbs teams. Joe Theismann was an elite QB at that time. He was the most important player. No Theismann, no Super Bowls in 82 and 83. Going into their last season, 1985, both Theismann and Riggins were talked about as potential Hall of Famers. For some reason, Riggins has grown into this legend and Theismann is an afterthought. All I know is that Theismann was the single most important player but for some reason Gibbs winning a title with three QBs has reduced Theismann's importance as time has gone on. I guess the fact that Gibbs also won with three different runners and that Timmy Smith, not John Riggins, is the Super Bowl record holder does not matter the same though. Fact is you are correct, the Skins got elite QB play in two of their three Super Bowl seasons. Only 87 did the QB play not reach that level. As for Luck, I'd love to have him and I think trading two 1's and a 2 for him is worth it based on how high people are on him. Problem is that it won't be enough and short of giving the Panthers two entire drafts, we should accept the fact we won't get him. What we have to hope for is that there is someone else Shanahan falls in love with who will be there at ten. If not, go NT at 10 and keep looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G1 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Well done. One of the sad things that I've seen happen in the last 25 years has been the erosion of Joe Theismann's status and contribution to the Redskins. Specifically his role in those early Gibbs teams. Joe Theismann was an elite QB at that time. He was the most important player. No Theismann, no Super Bowls in 82 and 83. Going into their last season, 1985, both Theismann and Riggins were talked about as potential Hall of Famers. For some reason, Riggins has grown into this legend and Theismann is an afterthought. All I know is that Theismann was the single most important player but for some reason Gibbs winning a title with three QBs has reduced Theismann's importance as time has gone on. I guess the fact that Gibbs also won with three different runners and that Timmy Smith, not John Riggins, is the Super Bowl record holder does not matter the same though. Fact is you are correct, the Skins got elite QB play in two of their three Super Bowl seasons. Only 87 did the QB play not reach that level. Absolutely, also, Theismann has one of the best all time QB ratings for playoff games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Build the OL-DL and go with Andy Dalton as our QB draft choice. I've read good things about Dalton - could be a smart move on our part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coopskin Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Please let's stop the fantasy crap about getting Luck! IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Move on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T.real,lights,out Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I think its going to cost WAY WAY too much to get him. Especially from the 10 spot. If we lost to Jack. we might of had a shot but not from the 10 spot. Prob would cost us two maybe three 1st and a few 2nds in there. I dont want to give that all up for one guy. But i would love to get him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotfire Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I said this at the time Cutler was up for grabs: If you have a chance to grab a true franchise QB, no price is too high. This is a QB league. Look at the history of Super Bowl winning teams. The list of teams winning Super Bowls without great QBs is about 4-5 deep. I know I'll get run out of here for saying it, but I'd give up three #1 picks to get that kid and not even think twice. He is the truth and a starter from day 1.I have a feeling Chicago feels like they overpaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 If we don't do this, I guarantee you in 3 years Carolina, who is a terrible team right now, will be a better team than us. If we don't do what, trade for the #1 pick regardless of the price? For all you know, Carolina will demand our next 10 first rounders. Is that something that you would agree to? Every year, Redskins fans become so enamored with "sure thing" free agents and draft prospects and want the team to bet the farm, trade the house, etc. to acquire them. The fact is that there are no "sure thing" free agents or draft prospects. Moreover, Luck might indeed turn out to be the next Peyton Manning, but I'm not willing to hand Carolina a blank check to try to nab him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 The Panthers owner is a cheapskate. Bet they would love to trade down to avoid paying Luck. My guess is that Luck is there for the taking. A discrete check with lots of zeroes on it to grease the skids and WHAMMO, Luck is a Skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Andrew Luck is a once in decade or more talent. I'd love to have Luck on this team... But price matters. If we could get away with a first rounder swap, an additional pick in next years draft (not our first) and a couple of players then I'd be okay with it. Anything more than a single first rounder being involved and I'd say no. Instead draft at 10 or trade back and pick up more youth. People think we're in a bad position draft wise, but I'd argue differently. I believe we're in an excellent position. There are a wide variety of players who we can select at pick #10, and there will be a wide variety of players we could select later. And if for some reason we do mortgage the farm and get Luck, I don't think that's a bad move either. I'm intrigued by this upcoming offseason, more so in the past. We have a very high chance of making some decent headway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 got no clue if Luck is the real deal but if if Shanny thinks he's another Peyton Manning, I agree with the sentiment of the thread. Kiper said it well in one of his recent Q & A's -- you grab an elite Qb if they are there, you can win in this league with a combo of an elite QB and average LT, you can't win with an elite LT and average QB. We see just about every draft elite LTs in the first round or at least good ones, we don't generally see elite QB's at the same rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mursilis Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 How many superbowls does new england have without Brady? Where are the Colts without Manning? Without Brady, the Pats were still an 11 win team in 2007, with a 7th round no-name (Cassel) as QB. Belichek is a coaching genius, and there's at least 15 QBs in the league right now who could get to at least 10 wins on that team, with that coach. Yes, Brady is special, but he's got a strong team and organization backing him up. As for Manning, where are the Colts WITH Manning? One SB win - that's it. Same as Trent Dilfer. An elite QB does NOT make a team elite, NO MATTER how good they are. Ask Hall of Famers Jim Kelly and Dan Marino (a combined 0-5 in the Super Bowl). Trading an entire draft for Luck is just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trap Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 luck is staying in college lets move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeknows Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 as i said in the last thread like this one.... after reviewing his highlight vid CzudT5dMgq0 he has crazy good protection... something we dont offer, and he stares his receivers down really badly. just watch the vid.... i knew where every one of those passes were going before he even released them. not in one clip does he go through ANY reads. what do you think NFL CB's are gonna do to that?? me personally while i see on the surface the kid has a great arm and mechanics, i am so bust weary of high ranking QB draft picks i certainly wouldnt mortgage the future on a kid that looks like he has IT, only to find that he doesnt. at some point we need to draft a QB yes... but i dont think it wise to do so until we can legitimately protect one. i think a good O line can make a decent QB look good, not so sure the inverse is true. Yes, Brady is special, but he's got a strong team and organization backing him up. As for Manning, where are the Colts WITH Manning? One SB win - that's it. wow ... how lopsided of a statement that is leaves me in awe. bilicheck a genius? i dunno... do any of us really know? maybe in talent acquisition.... and thats MAYBE. are the patriots successful? absolutely.... are they cheats ? absolutely. SO.... take away the cheat factor... how many of those AFC championships would have swung the other way? all of them? none of them? see when the coach has a credibility issue.... it jeopardizes every accomplishment the team ever had. and i for one am still highly disappointed that the same year the guy gets fined half a million for the whole fiasco... he wins "Coach of the year" award. i dont even see how the guy was even eligible much less win it. its likes telling the world "it is ok to cheat so long as you win" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.