The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[@DCGoldPants]

I meant being in the lotto every year. If that's the case, you aren't improving. It needs to be both....lotto in the beginning and then good drafting after that. The players your listed a lot of them came from other teams. That's the mix. You aren't mentioning solid players that they draft and develop around pick 15

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The problem with the Wizards is that they are too young and they have nobody outside of Wall with any kind of basketball IQ. And Flip is the wrong coach for them.

The Thunder realized that they were too young last year. That's why they got Perkins. That's why they kept Collison around and frankly overpaid him.

I also think they had the right coach for the kind of team they had in Brooks. However, I don't think Brooks is the right coach to get them to the Finals. Honestly, the best trade the Wizards could make is sending Flip to coach the Thunder and getting Brooks back. Flip knows how to coach in the playoffs; Scott knows how to coach an NBA team that is essentially a college team.

[DjTj]

I agree with that. I'm operating under the assumption that Wall is that guy. The Clippers were operating under the assumption that Blake was that guy' date=' and it got them Paul. Now, the Clippers are the Clippers and are capable of screwing this up. But any other franchise would be set for the next six years if they were in that position.

By the way, you are off a little bit about Shaq. He went to LA because that is where he wanted to be. He wanted money, fame, and the uniform. Kobe was 18 years old when Shaq signed there and I'm not even sure he had been drafted yet. He didn't even become a starter until Shaq's third year there.[/quote']Yeah, you're right about that. The Lakers are just the luckiest franchise in the world. Shaq had a great quote when he went to LA:

"I'm tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money," O'Neal said after signing for a reported $121 million. "I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok."

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/19/sports/sports-of-the-times-shaq-is-now-california-dreamin.html

Anyway, I don't know what the Wizards need to do because DC has never been a destination for free agents. But the only sane thing to do is look at the team as Wall and bunch of assets.

However, I will even go this far:

Let's say that Westbrook completely loses his mind and demands a trade in the next 18 months. Wouldn't the Wizards have to consider dangling Wall in that situation? Wall could become an All-Star. Westrbook is an All Star and might be a top ten player in the right situation. (I'm just speculating now, but the Wizards are looking at some kind of 13 win season here. They can't act like any idea is stupid).

The problem is that the Wizards are just so bad right now, so it's hard to even sell John Wall to a big-name free agent. We don't have the NBA hype machine running for us like the Clippers did with Blake Griffin. And of course they only ended up with Paul because Godfather Stern gave his blessing.

Hopefully we can at least get to be respectable this year. And if not, hopefully we get lucky in the lottery. It's going to take some luck, but I believe that when the situation does come around, Leonsis will be able to make the big free agent moves we need.

The only team that followed your formula and had any kind of sustained success is the mid-decade Pistons.

Chauncey Billups (#3), Rasheed Wallace (#4), and Rip Hamilton (#7). They all came via free agency, but the Pistons are the only championship team to successfully collect all of their top players that way.

I really think it's all about one good lotto pick, and then everyone else can be obtained through free agency. Everything in the draft after the lottery picks are a total crapshoot.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I meant being in the lotto every year. If that's the case, you aren't improving. It needs to be both....lotto in the beginning and then good drafting after that. The players your listed a lot of them came from other teams. That's the mix. You aren't mentioning solid players that they draft and develop around pick 15

I think those kind of players are a dime a dozen and are relatively easy to draft once you get your really good core group. At that point, you are more or less drafting for one skill - a spot up shooter, a shot-blocker, a big bodied-forward who can defend other big-bodied forwards.

---------- Post added January-5th-2012 at 05:16 PM ----------

I really think it's all about one good lotto pick, and then everyone else can be obtained through free agency. Everything in the draft after the lottery picks are a total crapshoot.

It's really more than that. It's having a lotto pick in the RIGHT year - in the Duncan, Lebron years not the the Kwame year.

(If you could do the Kwame year over, Gasol is the obvious top pick but no one on earth knew he would be this great. I never hold teams to crystal ball standards, like saying they should have drafted 18-year-old Jellybean Bryant's kid).

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

And people still rag on Lebron but look what he's become... the model for how you become good overnight.

[StillUnknown]

@gene_wang

Gene Wang

#Wizards held player only meeting organized by Mo Evans, said sense of entitlement is worse than with any other team he's been on

[Rocky21]

And people still rag on Lebron but look what he's become... the model for how you become good overnight.

Eight years in and counting and the LeBron James Will Never Be A Champion Era is moving right along as expected.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Rocky21

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

The draft will start to shape up as we the college season gets toward the end. Always around this time, it's not entirely clear who the PREMIER guy is (or guys, plural, if we're lucky). Hell, this time a few years ago, BJ Mullens was the potential top pick. Eventually the stars shine and this draft will be no different.

BTW, nice post DjTj. Agree completely. And I don't think Ted is adverse to spending money. I think he just wants to do it in a smart way. How many teams have spent money just for the sake of spending money? Only to be saddled with a max deal for a completely undeserving player? This is still early. And I think Wall is closer to an Isiah Thomas than he is a Chris Bosh--but we'll see.

Also, SU, thank you so much for posting that link. That's my go to now whenever I see anyone (coughsicksouljacough) try to defend Blatche. That's what I see EVERY single game. And have been for years now. Nice to have someone break it down and put it in video on the internet.

[abdcskins]

It's really more than that. It's having a lotto pick in the RIGHT year - in the Duncan' date=' Lebron years not the the Kwame year.

[/quote']

I agree with this. It's crazy how many crappy-average players get drafted in the top 20. Hasheem Thabeet, Kwame Brown, Greg Oden, Yi Jianlian, Acie Law...the list is endless. You also have to have great evaluators of talent to have some good picks 20-58. And the Wizards don't have that.

For instance, how much would say a Taj Gibson, #26 overall in the 09 draft, help this team? Or DeJuan Blair? We don't make those kind of picks. We draft Jermaine Taylor and Bill Walker.

On a sidenote I completely forget why we didn't have a first round pick in the 2009 draft.

Edited January 5, 2012 by abdcskins

[Destino]

@gene_wang

Gene Wang

#Wizards held player only meeting organized by Mo Evans, said sense of entitlement is worse than with any other team he's been on

I wonder who he's talking about. Based on what I see on the court I'd guess Wall, Young, Crawford, Blatche, and Lewis.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Destino

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I agree with this. It's crazy how many crappy-average players get drafted in the top 20. Hasheem Thabeet, Kwame Brown, Greg Oden, Yi Jianlian, Acie Law...the list is endless. You also have to have great evaluators of talent to have some good picks 20-58. And the Wizards don't have that.

For instance, how much would say a Taj Gibson, #26 overall in the 09 draft, help this team? Or DeJuan Blair? We don't make those kind of picks. We draft Jermaine Taylor and Bill Walker.

On a sidenote I completely forget why we didn't have a first round pick in the 2009 draft.

NBA draft has always been like that. Outside of the top 5, it's a total crapshoot. Even inside the top 5, things are hardly ever certain. It's not like the NFL draft AT ALL

On a sidenote, I wonder how good Oden could've been if not for the injuries.

I wonder who he's talking about. Based on what I see on the court I'd guess Wall, Young, Crawford, Blatche, and Lewis.

McGee has to be up there.

[Skin'emAlive]

Eh, McGee worked on his game and it shows. He is playing much better and should be a prominent fixture on this team. We don't have anyone who can defend the pick and roll, anyone who can spot up shoot, shoot a 3, or shoot a free throw. Without anyone who can actually shoot the ball, we are doomed. Booker, seraphin, singleton, McGee, Evans, and wall have no ability to put up 30 a night. That leaves Blatche, Crawford, and young. That is sad because Blatche and Crawford both have the same terrible shot selection, and young is the definition of a streaky shooter. On top of that he gets 85% of his shots without the help of his team and they consist of running fadeaways, fadeaways, and contested shots. Doooooomed.....

The funny thing about all this to me is that 5 years ago after watching Jamison go with a double double almost every game, I thought anyone could do that. I was wrong. McGee may be the only player who can consistently get a double double. Sigh.

[Chachie]

I love how everyone is miserably predicting 18, 15, 13 , etc. wins this season. Come on, folks. We're looking at 10 wins or less! we're not close to beating another NBA team right now. I'm trying to think of a team that has fewer pieces in place than we do right now.... thinking... thinking... Hmmmmmm...... maybe Charlotte? I'm not even familiar with their roster. Philly? Perhaps but I like their guards and small forwards. Their 4s and 5s are not set for the future, however.

Anyway- I'm not really that down about it because I really do trust Teddy Lee.

[Kosher Ham]

Chauncey Billups (#3), Rasheed Wallace (#4), and Rip Hamilton (#7). They all came via free agency, but the Pistons are the only championship team to successfully collect all of their top players that way.

I really think it's all about one good lotto pick, and then everyone else can be obtained through free agency. Everything in the draft after the lottery picks are a total crapshoot.

Let's not forget Ben Wallace and that all of those star players (besides Billups) were on the Bullets/Wizards at some point prior.

The team has been poorly run for about 30 years or so.

NBA draft has always been like that. Outside of the top 5, it's a total crapshoot. Even inside the top 5, things are hardly ever certain. It's not like the NFL draft AT ALL

On a sidenote, I wonder how good Oden could've been if not for the injuries.

You don't think top 5 in the NFL have the same crap shoot ?

Talk to Ryan Leaf, J. Russell, Courtney Brown, Tim Couch, Tony Mandarich, Heath Shuler, etc... to see if they count.

Sidenote: Oden was a man among boys in college. Had few games as a pro where it looked that way. That was it. Even when supposedly healthy he was an average player.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Scouting in the NFL is difficult because you are not measuring people against even competition. I think Justin Blackmon is going to be awesome. However, it may turn out that he simply cannot get away from press coverage. If that is the case, he will be out of the league in three years. The fun thing is this: no one knows. It's almost impossible to learn some things because they don't appear in the college game and there is no way to simulate them. That's why players bust in the NFL. You honestly do not know if a QB is going to crap his pants in the face of double A gap blitz. It's always those random things that kill NFL draft picks.

NBA draft picks typically bust for reasons that should have been known. The reason is because the NBA - like MLB and unlike the NFL - drafts on potential so often. Kwame Brown is the ultimate example of this. Outside of his little baby hands, he fit every measurable you could ever desire in an NBA player. On paper, he looked like someone who could have turned into David Robinson. But, he didn't. So, there you go.

If they reach their full potential, you get Kobe.

Where I think NBA teams screw up is they pick potential over legitimate talent too often. Durant and Oden is the great example of this. Oden had some obvious skils. But he had no offensive game and had only played a handful of games. It was almost impossible for Durant to fail. At the absolute worst, he was going to be some kind of all O/no D perimter player like Kevin Martin. Oden's bottom was, well, Kwame if he was healthy. (And let's be honest, Oden when he was healthy could not stay on the floor because he was a fouling machine). Portland's logic was "I would rather have the best defensive center in the league over the best forward in the league."

My logic would have been "I would rather have Kevin Martin than Kwame Brown."

NBA teams shoot for the stars in their draft. Everyone knew that Big Baby Davis and Dejuan Blair were good enough to be in an 8-man rotation. But they were never going to be stars. On paper, Thabeet had the potential to be a star. That's the NBA in a nutshell.

[Kosher Ham]

How about I heard someone on the radio today call Wall potentially the latest Steve Francis ? ? ?

LKB, I think both drafts are always hit or miss. Reggie Bush was so hyped you would have though he would set the world on fire. I stated back then I thought he would be solid but not great, perhaps even a bust.

Paying attention to the competition they play against makes those scouts and front offices earn their keep. Same in basketball.

[Skin'emAlive]

So the heat sans Lebron or wade look just as good. Depressing.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

You don't think top 5 in the NFL have the same crap shoot ?

Talk to Ryan Leaf, J. Russell, Courtney Brown, Tim Couch, Tony Mandarich, Heath Shuler, etc... to see if they count.

Sidenote: Oden was a man among boys in college. Had few games as a pro where it looked that way. That was it. Even when supposedly healthy he was an average player.

Absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about. I'm talking about the depth of the drafts. You can expect to get a solid player in the 2nd or even 3rd round of the NFL draft. In the NBA draft, outside of the top 5, it's a crapshoot. Go look at how many 2nd round draft picks in the NBA have been All Stars. Might be able to count them on one hand.

Now go somewhere troll. Nobody cares about your opinion of our team. Go enjoyy the Lakers last breaths of hope. Be awhile before you can again.

Edited January 6, 2012 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[chipwhich]

I really hope Wall pans out, I agree with this article. He needs a good coach in there to coach him up.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/before-the-wizards-john-wall-can-lead-he-needs-to-work-on-his-game/2012/01/05/gIQAmD6gdP_story.html

[Destino]

I really hope Wall pans out, I agree with this article. He needs a good coach in there to coach him up.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/before-the-wizards-john-wall-can-lead-he-needs-to-work-on-his-game/2012/01/05/gIQAmD6gdP_story.html

A lot of that should have been done on his own in the offseason. He knows that he was a lousy shooter last season. Did he hire a shooting coach and spend all summer working in his three ball? Did they work on finishing around the rim with both hands, from different angles, and from different distances? Did he get his midrange jumper down to science? How long did he spend shooting boring fouls shots with perfect form?

He's young and I'm not saying he's a bad guy or did the unthinkable. He's learning the way most people do, the hard way. The key is that just like most NBA players has to learn from his mistakes. He needs to own this. Blatche and Lewis aren't making him miss wide open jump shots. Flip Saunders isn't why he struggling around the basket. They can be upgraded certainly but the reason he not scoring 24 a game on this team is because he can't despite being tied for first with Blatche on this team in shot attempts per game.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Destino

[SuperBash]

How the hell did Crawford "dunk," over Lebron?

[chipwhich]

A lot of that should have been done on his own in the offseason. He knows that he was a lousy shooter last season. Did he hire a shooting coach and spend all summer working in his three ball? Did they work on finishing around the rim with both hands, from different angles, and from different distances? Did he get his midrange jumper down to science? How long did he spend shooting boring fouls shots with perfect form?

He's young and I'm not saying he's a bad guy or did the unthinkable. He's learning the way most people do, the hard way. The key is that just like most NBA players has to learn from his mistakes. He needs to own this. Blatche and Lewis aren't making him miss wide open jump shots. Flip Saunders isn't why he struggling around the basket. They can be upgraded certainly but the reason he not scoring 24 a game on this team is because he can't despite being tied for first with Blatche on this team in shot attempts per game.

I agree with you, in the NBA more than any other sport, champions show their colors.

Arenas worked his ass off to be a star, then threw it all away with his nonsense.

Wall needs to work his ass off to be a star in this league. To date, he is resting on his high pick, his youtube nonsense, and what others say his potential is.

Derrick Rose isn't sitting back relying on his draft status, he balls every night. Wall needs to find it in himself.

[Skin'emAlive]

^^

Not true. Arenas had his knee destroyed in the playoffs. He then proceeded to make it worse by coming back too early multiple times. Him going crazy was a product of being on top of the world and loved by everyone, and then a couple seasons later everyone seemed to hate him.

Wall needs to work his ass off however.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Skin'emAlive

[chipwhich]

^^

Not true. Arenas had his knee destroyed in the playoffs. He then proceeded to make it worse by coming back too early multiple times. Him going crazy was a product of being on top of the world and loved by everyone' date=' and then a couple seasons later everyone seemed to hate him.

Wall needs to work his ass off however.[/quote']

Uhhh true.

Arenas worked his ass off to be a star. He was not a number 1 number 1 overall.

You are referring to later in his career.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Wall needs to work his ass off to be a star in this league. To date, he is resting on his high pick, his youtube nonsense, and what others say his potential is.

Haven't seen a single thing that shows this. Not one thing. I see a guy out there busting his ass and trying to play with subpar talent.