The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Destino]

WIZARDS WIN! That's what matters.

Wall makes every question asked of him about him. It's really bizarre how he does it without sounding Kanye arrogant. "I heard Vesely likes Cheetos?" "I like potato chips and my teammates trust my enough to let me pick the brand of chips and distribute snacks like I know I can."

Edited December 1, 2013 by Destino

[TradeTheBeal!]

Darn good win.  Orlando and Milwaukee next.  Time to get on roll!

[Warhead36]

I think we have the best starting 5 in the East outside of Indiana and Miami. The issue is our bench, we just don't get enough out of them. It's a little better when Beal returns and one of Webster/Ariza can score off the bench(I'd start Ariza and let Webster come off the bench as he's a better scorer)but it's still not good. We have no backup G or PF/C at all.

 

If Porter can return and make any kind of impact, we have to look at trading either Webster/Ariza for someone who can give us quality minutes off the bench at G or PF/C.

[StillUnknown]

I think we have the best starting 5 in the East outside of Indiana and Miami. The issue is our bench, we just don't get enough out of them. It's a little better when Beal returns and one of Webster/Ariza can score off the bench(I'd start Ariza and let Webster come off the bench as he's a better scorer)but it's still not good. We have no backup G or PF/C at all.

 

If Porter can return and make any kind of impact, we have to look at trading either Webster/Ariza for someone who can give us quality minutes off the bench at G or PF/C.

 

If we put together a good run, it wouldn't shock me if Wittman, in his infinite wisdom, had Beal come off the bench.

[Destino]

If we put together a good run, it wouldn't shock me if Wittman, in his infinite wisdom, had Beal come off the bench.

At small forward. Then ask Porter to create off the dribble at SG like they did in the summer.

[Chachie]

If we stay healthy we can do things. Please stay healthy. 

[Destino]

If we stay healthy we can do things. Please stay healthy.

We can take injuries at the wing positions and still win but not at the 1, 4, or 5. We do not want Maynor, Vesely, or Seraphin starting.

[TheItalianStallion]

Good win. This is the kind of game we weren't winning early on, like Detroit & Philly. Sucks that Seraphin hasn't been able to regain his form from 2 years ago. We could be darn good with some better depth.

[StillUnknown]

We can take injuries at the wing positions and still win but not at the 1, 4, or 5. We do not want Maynor, Vesely, or Seraphin starting.

 

J. Michael

‏@JMichaelCSN

Nene is hurting. Doesn't wanna talk #WizardsTalk #NBA #WizHawks

[Going Commando]

Good win, would have been a rout if we could shoot FTs better and the Hawks weren't flukishly good from 3.

 

I'm starting to regret drafting Porter. Not because he's hurt, but because we already have two productive SFs in Webster and Ariza. I know Ariza isn't gonna get us 20 every night, but between him and Webster we have plenty at the 3. Would have been better off taking Michael Carter-Williams to be our 3rd G or Kelly Olynyk to give us a 3rd quality big. Hindsight's 20/20 though of course.

We haven't even seen Porter play yet. There is no hindsight on the question yet. MCW has been a major surprise. But Porter was a better college player and prospect it doesn't make sense at all to draft a PG #3 overall when you've got Wall.

I still think Porter ends up being the best perimeter player from the class.

[skinswillwin06]

Sit Nene for at least one game. He can get 5 days of rest. Sit him for two games and he gets 8 days. Three games 13 days.

 

Now is the time to do it.

[757SeanTaylor21]

Gotta post to get to last page

[Renegade7]

Watched the Indiana and Atlanta game, and I'm proud of way they bounced back instead of moping around about getting their tail handed to them. A healthy Wizards team with Porter and Beal might find a way to get there's anyway against a team like the Pacers that plays that level of defense. But as long as they beat the teams they're supposed to beat and don't crumble at the end of games (really impressed how we refused to give up the lead to the hawks last night, no matter how bad they wanted it), this is a playoff team.

My dad asked me if Grunsfeld deserves credit for this, I told him it took 2-3 rebuilds to get it right and even though the Lakers and Hawks games we're good wins, we saw where we are (injured or not) against a team like Indiana. It's a competitive team in the east, but we still have work to do.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Renegade7

[Going Commando]

8-9 at the end of November was basically the best we could realistically expect.

5-2 at home is encouraging for a couple of reasons, though it we should have gone 7-0. We should have beaten Cleveland and Philly, those were bad losses. Take care of business at home and we'd be sitting comfortably in the third seed.

But as I said, 5-2 is encouraging because playoff teams certainly have to win at home. So far we're playing really well at home. Second, 8-9 when you've played only 7 home games against 10 road games is a good place to be based on where we've been the previous years. Our schedule has been hard. We've played almost every single top team this season. We're 5-6 against .500 or better teams. The only other teams who've played more than 11 games against winning teams are Boston (12), Houston (12), Dallas (12), and the Clippers (13).

Nobody else except Boston in the East has had the kind of schedule we've had so far.

Miami and Indy have each only had 7 road games against 9 home games and neither have taken West trips yet. Their schedules are going to get a lot harder and Indy at least is going to take some road losses. They've sucked against the West the past several seasons. And actually a whole bunch of West teams have had home heavy schedules so far while pretty much every Eastern team has been on the road except Indy and Miami. I think we're going to find out that none of those teams are actually as good as they seem right now. Except San Antonio and Miami, who are virtual locks to finish .700+.

We're actually treading water against the West at 2-3. Need to keep hovering around .500 there, then we can take care of business against the far weaker East and climb up high enough over .500 to make the playoffs and get a good seed.

December is road heavy again but the frequency of games is so much lighter that we can get a lot of rest. We've had four straight back to backs during a period when the starters had to play heavy minutes to keep our season afloat. Only one back to back in the month of December. Only 11 games in 31 days total. The schedule picks up again in January with four more back to backs, but at least it's a 9-8 home/away split. Then in February we get a nice 8-5 home/away split.

So we're well positioned to contend for the third seed right now. Not bad considering we've lost Beal and Nene and Ariza at points, and haven't even taken the reigning Big East POTY and #3 overall pick out of the box yet.

Watched the Indiana and Atlanta game, and I'm proud of way they bounced back instead of moping around about getting their tail handed to them. A healthy Wizards team with Porter and Beal might find a way to get there's anyway against a team like the Pacers that plays that level of defense. But as long as they beat the teams they're supposed to beat and don't crumble at the end of games (really impressed how we refused to give up the lead to the hawks last night, no matter how bad they wanted it), this is a playoff team.

My dad asked me if Grunsfeld deserves credit for this, I told him it took 2-3 rebuilds to get it right and even though the Lakers and Hawks games we're good wins, we saw where we are (injured or not) against a team like Indiana. It's a competitive team in the east, but we still have work to do.

Meh, I'm not going to draw many long term conclusions from the Indiana beating. Indy was at full strength and playing at home. We were going into our fourth straight set of back to backs, on the road, and missing our second and third best players.

[StillUnknown]

My dad asked me if Grunsfeld deserves credit for this, I told him it took 2-3 rebuilds to get it right and even though the Lakers and Hawks games we're good wins, we saw where we are (injured or not) against a team like Indiana. It's a competitive team in the east, but we still have work to do.

 

Everytime I think about giving Grunfeld credit, I remember our bench is a collection of his drafting failures & Eric Maynor. Even if he just hit on one or two of his draftees, we would be in a much better position to maybe steal a series in the first round. They didn't have to be all-stars, just productive role players, but Grunfeld couldn't even meet that standard.

Edited December 1, 2013 by StillUnknown

[Hersh]

Grunfeld deserves zero credit for this team. Picking Wall, Beal and even Porter were obvious picks to 95% of every basketball fan. Nene, when healthy is playing well, but we are already being forced to rest him and his contract is terrible. It's statically not the worst bench in the league, but it's close. The fact is that this team wouldn't make the playoffs in the West but now should in the East because it's going to be an historically bad conference. The current 3 seed would be 11th in the West. Unfortunately Ted won't put any success in context and EG will be extended probably during the year.

[Sticksboi05]

The East is detestable.  Seriously.

[Thinking Skins]

Grunfeld deserves zero credit for this team. Picking Wall, Beal and even Porter were obvious picks to 95% of every basketball fan. Nene, when healthy is playing well, but we are already being forced to rest him and his contract is terrible. It's statically not the worst bench in the league, but it's close. The fact is that this team wouldn't make the playoffs in the West but now should in the East because it's going to be an historically bad conference. The current 3 seed would be 11th in the West. Unfortunately Ted won't put any success in context and EG will be extended probably during the year.

I disagree. Ernie made moves that we all questioned on here and a number of them have worked out in his favor. Who knew anything about Webster before last year. Nobody expected anything from him. Most of us were totally abusing the Lewis for Okafur/Ariza trade and in my opinion that has been a great trade. The Okafur for Gortat trade was another one that was questioned on this board, but now I definitely wouldn't take it back. Sure Ernie has his share of problems, namely with guys like Vesely, Booker, Singleton, Crawford, Seraphin, etc. but we can't act like this team was just given to him on a silver platter. I mean look at Cleveland. They've had like 4 top 4 picks including 2 number 1's and all they've got to show for it is Irving and a marginal player in Thompson.

[Hersh]

I disagree. Ernie made moves that we all questioned on here and a number of them have worked out in his favor. Who knew anything about Webster before last year. Nobody expected anything from him. Most of us were totally abusing the Lewis for Okafur/Ariza trade and in my opinion that has been a great trade. The Okafur for Gortat trade was another one that was questioned on this board, but now I definitely wouldn't take it back. Sure Ernie has his share of problems, namely with guys like Vesely, Booker, Singleton, Crawford, Seraphin, etc. but we can't act like this team was just given to him on a silver platter. I mean look at Cleveland. They've had like 4 top 4 picks including 2 number 1's and all they've got to show for it is Irving and a marginal player in Thompson.

 

It's easy to take a move in a vacuum and say it was good, but this is about building a roster. It's great that Webster has been playing well but then we drafted another small forward while lacking any kind of front court depth. The Lewis trade was a terrible trade as EG helped another team get cap relief without getting a draft pick in return from them. Essentially this team will have traded a huge expiring contract plus 1st round draft pick in the deepest draft in years for two players that will be free agents after this season and one that definitely won't be back in Ariza. These trades almost demand that the Wiz resign Gortat because they have to get something in return long term for all those assets.

 

Now we have a roster that forces starters to play 40+ minutes per game which has already resulted in Beal and Nene missing time and we aren't a 1/4 of the way through the season.

 

Finally, I'm not really sure what Cleveland has to do with EG unless you think a GM should be kept because he isn't the worst in the league.

[Thinking Skins]

It's easy to take a move in a vacuum and say it was good, but this is about building a roster. It's great that Webster has been playing well but then we drafted another small forward while lacking any kind of front court depth.

Think about it for a second. We went from having 0 players at the SF position, and literally playing Singleton there for an entire year to having 2 legit players there + a rookie to develop. I'm not saying that its the best use of talent, but according to Ted's 10 point plan of blowing the roster up except for Wall and rebuilding.

The Lewis trade was a terrible trade as EG helped another team get cap relief without getting a draft pick in return from them.

When the trade happened, I think the general consensus was that EG should have tried to get an additional first in the trade. But we're not dealing in fantasy here. We don't know if EG tried that and they said no, or if we would have gotten a first but no Oak/Ariza or what the ramifications of the trade would be. The trade itself that we got was one that I'm happy with though. Sure you can argue that we could have done better/gotten more, but at the time of the trade people were calling it a bad trade not only for not getting a first back, but because Oak and Ariza were bad/marginal players. Last year and this year showed us how valuable those players are in this system with Wall so I think we have to go back and re-grade this trade based on the quality of players we got. We got something much closer to the Ariza in LA than the Ariza in NO and Oak was a defensive presence that we haven't had at the 5 spot in a long time, probably in my existence here in DC. So getting back two quality starters for a guy who was at the end of our bench to me is a good move by EG.

Essentially this team will have traded a huge expiring contract plus 1st round draft pick in the deepest draft in years for two players that will be free agents after this season and one that definitely won't be back in Ariza. These trades almost demand that the Wiz resign Gortat because they have to get something in return long term for all those assets.

You say that as if re-signing Gortat is a bad thing?

And people keep talking about how deep this draft is. We traded this pick conditionally so if we wind up in the lottery again getting a top 3 pick then we can keep that pick and use the draft. Otherwise this draft is going to be like just about every other NBA draft - top heavy and a bunch of marginal talent in the middle first round. So would I give up an injured Oak plus Seraphin/Singleton/Booker/Crawford for Gortat? Without blinking twice. You're saying you wouldn't do that?

 

Now we have a roster that forces starters to play 40+ minutes per game which has already resulted in Beal and Nene missing time and we aren't a 1/4 of the way through the season.

 

Finally, I'm not really sure what Cleveland has to do with EG unless you think a GM should be kept because he isn't the worst in the league.

True. We're still trying to build a roster. My point was that I do credit EG with these moves. I particularly brought in Cleveland because you discredited EG with making the obvious choices, but when Cleveland was given obvious choices they still blew it. I mean even EG blew it with the Vesely pick (although K. Leonard wasn't the obvious choice, he was the player I was pulling for).

I know this town loves to hate EG, but I don't think you can look at this team and how well its playing (40+ minutes going to the starters and all) and not give EG some credit. I'm criticizing him as well, but he does deserve some credit because this team is actually competing.

Even the Wall extension wasn't a guarantee, although it wasn't as hated. But EG did it and its paying off. We as Wizards fans need to stop acting like EG is Vinny Ceratto. The two are not the same.

[StillUnknown]

If you are given over a decade to build a team, you will eventually get a decent year or two out of 10. Doesn't make him good, or worth extending.

 

I think he's closer to Cerrato than you think.

[Hersh]

Think about it for a second. We went from having 0 players at the SF position, and literally playing Singleton there for an entire year to having 2 legit players there + a rookie to develop. I'm not saying that its the best use of talent, but according to Ted's 10 point plan of blowing the roster up except for Wall and rebuilding.

When the trade happened, I think the general consensus was that EG should have tried to get an additional first in the trade. But we're not dealing in fantasy here. We don't know if EG tried that and they said no, or if we would have gotten a first but no Oak/Ariza or what the ramifications of the trade would be. The trade itself that we got was one that I'm happy with though. Sure you can argue that we could have done better/gotten more, but at the time of the trade people were calling it a bad trade not only for not getting a first back, but because Oak and Ariza were bad/marginal players. Last year and this year showed us how valuable those players are in this system with Wall so I think we have to go back and re-grade this trade based on the quality of players we got. We got something much closer to the Ariza in LA than the Ariza in NO and Oak was a defensive presence that we haven't had at the 5 spot in a long time, probably in my existence here in DC. So getting back two quality starters for a guy who was at the end of our bench to me is a good move by EG.

You say that as if re-signing Gortat is a bad thing?

And people keep talking about how deep this draft is. We traded this pick conditionally so if we wind up in the lottery again getting a top 3 pick then we can keep that pick and use the draft. Otherwise this draft is going to be like just about every other NBA draft - top heavy and a bunch of marginal talent in the middle first round. So would I give up an injured Oak plus Seraphin/Singleton/Booker/Crawford for Gortat? Without blinking twice. You're saying you wouldn't do that?

 

True. We're still trying to build a roster. My point was that I do credit EG with these moves. I particularly brought in Cleveland because you discredited EG with making the obvious choices, but when Cleveland was given obvious choices they still blew it. I mean even EG blew it with the Vesely pick (although K. Leonard wasn't the obvious choice, he was the player I was pulling for).

I know this town loves to hate EG, but I don't think you can look at this team and how well its playing (40+ minutes going to the starters and all) and not give EG some credit. I'm criticizing him as well, but he does deserve some credit because this team is actually competing.

Even the Wall extension wasn't a guarantee, although it wasn't as hated. But EG did it and its paying off. We as Wizards fans need to stop acting like EG is Vinny Ceratto. The two are not the same.

 

Not sure how expecting a first round pick in exchange for helping a team create a lot of salary cap space is fantasy but okay. Again, EG traded a large expiring contract plus a 1st round pick for two years of Ariza and Gortat for one year. If Gortat resigns, it becomes a little better, but if he bolts, he will have used two major assets and received nothing long term. BTW, this draft will be deeper than the normal draft and while it's probably a bust of a pick if Ernie makes the pick, that alone should be reason to fire him. It shouldn't be acceptable that a mid round pick is automatically a bust.

 

On to the small forward issue. We had to play Singleton at SF for a year because of Ernie. Remember, he created the mess. So going from zero to 2 legit SFs and the number 3 pick in the draft (who should be expected to contribute a lot from day one) isn't the best use of roster or cap space. Especially in the context of having no front court depth which, again, is completely Ernie's fault.

 

Finally, are you seriously giving EG credit for signing Wall to a max deal?? Wall may turn out to be a max type of player, but he certainly isn't yet. So giving a guy max money and getting him to stay isn't much of an accomplishment. I'm sure you'll bring up the ineptitude of Cleveland again, but that's a cop out. Again, just cause someone isn't the worst, doesn't make him worth extending. This team has been so terrible for so long because of Ernie that one decent season playing in, what will be an historically bad conference, doesn't mean he's accomplished anything.

[Thinking Skins]

You're turning this into a question of is he worth extending. I'm saying he deserves credit for doing some good moves. In particular I don't like the statements that all his moves were obvious moves because the two trades Okafur/Ariza for Lewis and then Okafur + first for Gortat were by no means obvious trades and just by the debate we're having right now they're debated. But those trades are a large part of the reason why we're in contention for a playoff spot right now. We'll see what he does with Ariza, whether it becomes another trade, an extension, or just letting him walk. But I think EG does deserve some credit for putting this team together. Yeah it took him 5 years since the Arenas fiasco to do it, but I can talk basketball in DC (and to Knicks and Lakers fans too) and hold my head up high.

[StillUnknown]

I'm just hoping Ted judges him on tenure and not simply "playoffs or bust". We have a good foundation founded on the luck of the draft, in a better GM's hands, we could make some noise.

 

Realistically, if Ted were judging on tenure, he would have canned Grunfeld 2 years ago.

 

I expect Ted to extend Grunfeld & Wittman once it looks like we're going to make the playoffs.

Edited December 1, 2013 by StillUnknown

[Destino]

The East is detestable. Seriously.

Who in the west would you take over Miami or Indy? Might be terrible overall but the likely two best teams in the nba are in the east.