The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

Wonder if a Myles Turner trade is feasible?  Could rotate him with one of our high efficiency bigs to make up for his offensive inconsistency.  Him + KCP = two high level defenders.  That might be enough if Rui and Deni get better on defense.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

 

[Ball Security]

9 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

 

 

On draft night, it appeared that Gill and Homesley were sent to Indiana for Holiday, but apparently not.  Two more guys on the roster. Have to be some guys exiting.
 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[Going Commando]

Fred Katz wrote that this 5 team trade that Tommy made is the first five teamer in 16 years.  These things never get done because of how complicated they are, but Tommy managed it by stockpiling second rounders when he first got the job.

[method man]

13 hours ago, Ball Security said:

On draft night, it appeared that Gill and Homesley were sent to Indiana for Holiday, but apparently not.  Two more guys on the roster. Have to be some guys exiting.
 

 

It's a shame they were not included. Because of that, Matthews is gone. I like Gill but he doesn't have a future on this team with the number of forward we have

[Going Commando]

I'm watching a 9 minute defensive highlight reel of Montrezl Harrell from last season, and it shows that he's a decent weak side helper, takes a lot of charges, and he's alright switching onto face up players and staying with them.

 

He's a try hard who makes plays on defense off of his energy level.  He's short, but a lot of teams don't use Robin Lopez type centers.  Kind of wish Lopez hadn't priced himself off of our team with his last season, because having him as the third rotation center would have given us a 5 for any type of situation.

 

We should keep Harrell.  He's a high energy and high IQ player that will play way better defense than Bryant, who I think is probably hopeless on that end.  He's also an efficient offensive player despite having bizarrely high usage for an undersized 5 with an ORtg over 120.  That means he does good work with the ball in his hands.  Almost all of his shots come around the basket but only a little over 60% of them are assisted--low for a 5.  That means he must have a face up game and be a pretty potent finisher despite his lack of size.

 

If we play good defense this season, it will be via the effort of guys like Harrell.  We also need Hachimura and Avdija to pull their weight on defense, and we need Dinwiddie to play D too.  Also need KCP to stay as good as he was for the Lakers, as he is easily the best defender  on the team outside of Gafford.

 

Even still, it's probably not enough.  I think we need to take a swing on a young player with high defensive upside since the best defensive rotation players are well established on good rosters.  I'm thinking someone rough like Josh Okogie, who hasn't really solidified himself in Minnesota.  But he's got the tools and mentality to be an impact perimeter defender for a team who can get around his lack of offensive ability.

[mhd24]

7 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I'm watching a 9 minute defensive highlight reel of Montrezl Harrell from last season, and it shows that he's a decent weak side helper, takes a lot of charges, and he's alright switching onto face up players and staying with them.

 

He's a try hard who makes plays on defense off of his energy level.  He's short, but a lot of teams don't use Robin Lopez type centers.  Kind of wish Lopez hadn't priced himself off of our team with his last season, because having him as the third rotation center would have given us a 5 for any type of situation.

 

We should keep Harrell.  He's a high energy and high IQ player that will play way better defense than Bryant, who I think is probably hopeless on that end.  He's also an efficient offensive player despite having bizarrely high usage for an undersized 5 with an ORtg over 120.  That means he does good work with the ball in his hands.  Almost all of his shots come around the basket but only a little over 60% of them are assisted--low for a 5.  That means he must have a face up game and be a pretty potent finisher despite his lack of size.

 

If we play good defense this season, it will be via the effort of guys like Harrell.  We also need Hachimura and Avdija to pull their weight on defense, and we need Dinwiddie to play D too.  Also need KCP to stay as good as he was for the Lakers, as he is easily the best defender  on the team outside of Gafford.

 

Even still, it's probably not enough.  I think we need to take a swing on a young player with high defensive upside since the best defensive rotation players are well established on good rosters.  I'm thinking someone rough like Josh Okogie, who hasn't really solidified himself in Minnesota.  But he's got the tools and mentality to be an impact perimeter defender for a team who can get around his lack of offensive ability.

 

 

He's better than Bryant (whom I don't like whatsoever).  Bryant is arguably the worst defensive center (who gets regular PT) in the NBA.  His ACL tear is going to diminish his very poor lateral quickness even more.  Harrell will feast on second units (in the regular season at least).    

[Going Commando]

5 hours ago, mhd24 said:

He's better than Bryant (whom I don't like whatsoever).  Bryant is arguably the worst defensive center (who gets regular PT) in the NBA.  His ACL tear is going to diminish his very poor lateral quickness even more.  Harrell will feast on second units (in the regular season at least).    

 

Bryant is a very good offensive player.  His three ball is good and he is ultra efficient around the rim.  He is energetic and played hard.  He could work in a rotation with strong defensive forwards who need spacing, but not for us.

 

It made sense to sign him to an extension at the time it happened because we had wasted so many years of John's career on old, lethargic bigs with no legs who couldn't play above the rim.  But the emergence of Gafford makes playing Bryant undesirable.  We always needed to find a real defensive anchor at the position.

[mhd24]

5 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Bryant is a very good offensive player.  His three ball is good and he is ultra efficient around the rim.  He is energetic and played hard.  He could work in a rotation with strong defensive forwards who need spacing, but not for us.

 

It made sense to sign him to an extension at the time it happened because we had wasted so many years of John's career on old, lethargic bigs with no legs who couldn't play above the rim.  But the emergence of Gafford makes playing Bryant undesirable.  We always needed to find a real defensive anchor at the position.

 

 

Yeah, it was a good gamble to resign Bryant, but (IMO), he's gone after this year.  Gafford is the future at center.  You shouldn't waste resources (big money/high picks) on centers who can be played off the floor/horrific defenders (i.e. don't draft the Jaxxson Hayes types in the lotto).  Bryant can shoot well, but he never passes and the defense will always be bad when he's out there.  The defense immediately improved when Gafford came here.  Gafford can defend the pick&roll and is a lob threat.  He's also a solid FT shooter and showed good form.  He seems like a good kid who is a hard worker.  I bet he's working on 3 point range this summer.  

[method man]

6 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I'm watching a 9 minute defensive highlight reel of Montrezl Harrell from last season, and it shows that he's a decent weak side helper, takes a lot of charges, and he's alright switching onto face up players and staying with them.

 

He's a try hard who makes plays on defense off of his energy level.  He's short, but a lot of teams don't use Robin Lopez type centers.  Kind of wish Lopez hadn't priced himself off of our team with his last season, because having him as the third rotation center would have given us a 5 for any type of situation.

 

We should keep Harrell.  He's a high energy and high IQ player that will play way better defense than Bryant, who I think is probably hopeless on that end.  He's also an efficient offensive player despite having bizarrely high usage for an undersized 5 with an ORtg over 120.  That means he does good work with the ball in his hands.  Almost all of his shots come around the basket but only a little over 60% of them are assisted--low for a 5.  That means he must have a face up game and be a pretty potent finisher despite his lack of size.

 

If we play good defense this season, it will be via the effort of guys like Harrell.  We also need Hachimura and Avdija to pull their weight on defense, and we need Dinwiddie to play D too.  Also need KCP to stay as good as he was for the Lakers, as he is easily the best defender  on the team outside of Gafford.

 

Even still, it's probably not enough.  I think we need to take a swing on a young player with high defensive upside since the best defensive rotation players are well established on good rosters.  I'm thinking someone rough like Josh Okogie, who hasn't really solidified himself in Minnesota.  But he's got the tools and mentality to be an impact perimeter defender for a team who can get around his lack of offensive ability.

The assist stat is because Harrell is a beast when it comes to getting offensive rebounds. He rebounds a ton of misses and dunks it back a lot

[Going Commando]

14 minutes ago, method man said:

The assist stat is because Harrell is a beast when it comes to getting offensive rebounds. He rebounds a ton of misses and dunks it back a lot

 

It can't just be from putbacks.  That would be so many given his high number of FGAs and usage rate.  Looking at his shot chart, he's at over 90% of his FGA in the lane with a 60% AR.  Even dominant offensive rebounders like Gobert are ~75% assisted on 2 pointers.

 

He must have some kind of triple threat/face up game to make up the difference.  I think I found some examples of it in this highlight video:

 

 

Look at the plays at 0:31, 1:10, 1:51, and 2:20.

 

He's got a legit first step and he's really strong.  Reminds me of Gerald Wallace, but it actually looks like he prefers to start out back to the basket more than faced up.  He uses blow-by dribbles on opposing bigs who can't match his first step, and if they're long and wiry shotblockers, he likes to body them with his big shoulders and low center of gravity to get them off balance before he goes up.  He's a bully who is shockingly effective despite his size just from being really quick and aggressive.

[abdcskins]

Harell is super strong and his energy/effort level is extremely high. Rebounds like crazy. Legit post game. Every time I watch him play I am impressed. Very good acquisition for us imo, with him and Gafford we have two quality big men.

[Barry.Randolphe]

Harrell reminds me of a Dennis Rodman type - gritty, tough, try hard...but he has some offensive game. Whenever I saw the Lakers play, he was the guy grabbing offensive rebounds, lobs, and putbacks, so that could explain his offensive rating. He even made a few 3's when left open

[TradeTheBeal!]

KD2DC 2026

[Renegade7]

Anyone got access so I can see what they talkin about?

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[No Excuses]

Javale McGee: 3X NBA Champion and now also an Olympic gold medalist.

[abdcskins]

1 hour ago, No Excuses said:

Javale McGee: 3X NBA Champion and now also an Olympic gold medalist.

 

And we ler him go. One of many players I wish we had kept. Jeff Green and Bobby Portis are two others that come to mind. Oubre too.

[No Excuses]

38 minutes ago, abdcskins said:

 

And we ler him go. One of many players I wish we had kept. Jeff Green and Bobby Portis are two others that come to mind. Oubre too.

This team was too much of a train wreck to ever develop and use him properly.

 

I am happy for him. He didn’t flame out of the league like his teammates from that time. He wasn’t a high IQ player but he made a pretty good career just from being a great athlete who plays with a ton of energy. 

Edited August 7, 2021 by No Excuses

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, No Excuses said:

He wasn’t a high IQ player but he made a pretty good career just from being a great athlete who plays with a ton of energy. 

 

And a 27 foot wingspan.  It's hard not to make money in the NBA if you're a coordinated 7 footer.

 

There have been a number of young players from the Grunfeld era who got better once they left here.  Very few vets who got better when they came here, and basically three young players who almost reached their potential here.

15 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

Anyone got access so I can see what they talkin about?

 

There is not a lot in that particular article, just an overview of the free agency moves to date.

 

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31967344/nba-free-agency-2021-best-fits-best-values-best-experienced-los-angeles-lakers-addition

 

Quote

Best offseason: Washington Wizards

 

Ten days ago, the Wizards were looking at losing key contributors to last season's eighth seed because of limited spending power this offseason and next without going into the luxury tax. At best, Washington would've been running things back and hoping for better results. Instead, Russell Westbrook's trade request and the Lakers' interest opened up an alternative path for the Wizards to get younger and deeper.

 

By virtue of expanding the Westbrook deal to include a sign-and-trade for free agent Spencer Dinwiddie, Washington has added five contributors in exchange for Westbrook and reserve Chandler Hutchison: Dinwiddie, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Montrezl Harrell, Aaron Holiday and Kyle Kuzma. New Wizards head coach Wes Unseld Jr. now has a deep, versatile roster with which to work.

 

[Going Commando]

FWIW, this is how Kevin Pelton graded the parts of our trade.

 

The Westbrook part: https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31913976/nba-trade-grades-adding-russell-westbrook-means-lebron-james-los-angeles-lakers

 

Quote

Washington Wizards: A

This is as good a conclusion to the Westbrook era as the Wizards could possibly have hoped. Dealing him for three contributors replenishes the depth they were set to lose in free agency while also saving more than $6 million in 2021-22 salary and replacing the draft pick they potentially sent to Houston.

 

For the moment, Washington's roster has a glaring hole at point guard. The two players who backed up and played alongside Westbrook, Raul Neto and Ish Smith, are both unrestricted free agents. The Wizards have several options now. They saved enough to potentially re-sign Smith using early Bird rights and also use their $9.5 million non-taxpayer midlevel exception or could expand this deal into a three-teamer in order to bring back a point guard making more than the midlevel via sign-and-trade.

 

I'd also now expect Washington to look at a point guard with one of its two first-round picks. Harrell could also be a trade option for a point guard with starting center Thomas Bryant returning from an ACL tear to join trade-deadline steal Daniel Gafford.

 

Is a roster with solid depth at every position save point guard but no stars enough to convince Beal to stay? I'd imagine probably not. This looks like a souped-up version of the 2019-20 Wizards team without an injured Wall that was 24-40 when the season paused. Another play-in appearance is a realistic possibility for Washington with Beal, but barring a quality addition at point guard, the Wizards are no closer to contending this season. (The 2022-23 season, when they could create nearly $20 million in cap space if Caldwell-Pope declines his player option, might be a slightly different story.)

 

I don't think this move alters Washington's trajectory as a franchise. Still, given the possibility the Wizards ended up underwater on the Westbrook contract down the road, getting a first-rounder in return made this trade well worth doing.

 

The Aaron Holiday part: https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31916793/nba-trade-grades-wins-wizards-pacers-deal-aaron-holiday

 

Quote

Washington Wizards: B+

After agreeing to deal Russell Westbrook to the Los Angeles Lakers in a blockbuster trade Thursday that yielded the No. 22 pick, the Wizards had a glaring need at point guard. Holiday goes some way toward filling that hole.

 

We barely saw Holiday play the point last season, when nearly all his minutes (93%, per my analysis of lineup data from NBA Advanced Stats) came with either McConnell or starter Malcolm Brogdon on the court. Holiday ran the offense a bit more in 2019-20, when I estimate he played there 38% of the time and Indiana had a plus-1.1 net rating in those minutes. (The Pacers were even better, plus-6.5 points per 100 possessions, with Holiday at shooting guard that season.)

 

Given Holiday is not an elite facilitator, I like the idea of him playing alongside Bradley Beal and letting Beal operate primarily with the ball in his hands. Holiday has shown enough shooting ability to space the floor, hitting 37% of his 3-point attempts during his career.

 

Surely, Washington isn't done adding at the point. The Wizards could still re-sign one or both of incumbents Raul Neto and Ish Smith, add a player in free agency using the non-taxpayer midlevel exception or explore a sign-and-trade.

 

The Spencer Dinwiddie part: https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31959429/nba-trade-grades-wins-spencer-dinwiddie-deal-breaking-wizards-every-team-involved

 

Quote

Washington Wizards: A-

Give the Wizards' front office credit for their creativity. Tacking this sign-and-trade on to the Westbrook deal cost Washington a couple of second-round picks as well as a second-round swap, but it substantially expanded the team's spending power in free agency. Had the Wizards simply completed the deals as originally struck on draft night, they would have netted out a small trade exception (worth about $4.5 million) and had the $9.5 million non-taxpayer midlevel to spend in free agency.

 

Instead, Washington found room to make Dinwiddie a three-year, $62 million offer. I like the timetable with Dinwiddie, who is 28 -- the same age as new backcourt-mate Bradley Beal. Dinwiddie is young enough to still have value to the Wizards if Beal ultimately leaves but also in his prime to help them compete now. Of course, this is all pending Dinwiddie's full recovery from a partial ACL tear in December that required season-ending surgery.

 

Because of his age, Dinwiddie was a more reasonable target for Washington than the veteran free agents on the market this summer. And I think he's simply a better player than Dennis Schroder, the next-best unrestricted point guard in his prime. As a result, Lonzo Ball was the only free agent I would've had above Dinwiddie on my priority list for the Wizards.

 

One key to this trade will be Dinwiddie's catch-and-shoot ability. Per Second Spectrum tracking, Dinwiddie has made 36% of his catch-and-shoot 3-point opportunities in his NBA career, just below the league average of 37%. It's on 3s off the dribble where Dinwiddie has struggled, shooting just 29% on attempts the league as a whole has made at a 32% clip.

Heading to Washington, Dinwiddie won't entirely abandon an on-ball role. He'll be called on to start at point guard, filling the hole left by the Westbrook trade. Still, with Beal alongside him in the backcourt, Dinwiddie will have more playmaking support than he had for much of his time in Brooklyn. When Beal is operating with the ball, Dinwiddie's average-ish shooting will be a huge upgrade from Westbrook's.

 

Overall, I think the Wizards look like a stronger, deeper team than last season's group that advanced through the NBA's inaugural play-in tournament before getting dispatched in five games by the top-seeded Philadelphia 76ers. Don't print your playoff tickets just yet -- the rest of the East's middle class has also loaded up -- but I like what Washington has done this offseason.

 

 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[Hersh]

The trade for Aaron Holiday was a terrible trade. The guy is a restricted FA after this season. It would have served the team better long term to either draft a PG at 22 and have that player under control for a lot longer, draft Todd if he was the target all along or trade back a few slots and add draft assets. Ultimately, Todd could sign a short contract which would make him an UFA early and this team can't afford to pay Holiday much of anything even if he has a decent season. 

Per P

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

FWIW, this is how Kevin Pelton graded the parts of our trade.

 

The Westbrook part: https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31913976/nba-trade-grades-adding-russell-westbrook-means-lebron-james-los-angeles-lakers

 

 

The Aaron Holiday part: https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31916793/nba-trade-grades-wins-wizards-pacers-deal-aaron-holiday

 

 

The Spencer Dinwiddie part: https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31959429/nba-trade-grades-wins-spencer-dinwiddie-deal-breaking-wizards-every-team-involved

 

 

 

 

Here is the the number one problem with everything that's been done and the direction the Wiz are going. Straight from the article:

 

Don't print your playoff tickets just yet -- the rest of the East's middle class has also loaded up -- but I like what Washington has done this offseason.

 

 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]