The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

No way.

Booker > Williams

Derrick Williams was a HUGE disappointment last year. Even more so than Vesely because of where he was drafted. Giving up Ves/Booker would be entirely too much for Williams. Now, if it was Singleton and a future 2nd, sure. But there is no way I'm trading those two guys for Derrick Williams of all people.

The thing DWill has over Vesely is quickness and shooting range. He still has the potential to be a nice stretch 4. I'd at least consider making a deal because DWill has talent and really good athleticism. It's too early to give up on his potential, and Minny has no minutes for him, so he could be pretty cheap. Might not take Vesely or Booker in a swap.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Not a star but a solid, hard working, tough role player.

Add versatile to that too.

[NO iD=A-Ok]

What exactly have you seen from Singleton as a pro that would leave you to believe that he has all this "potential?" Outside of Shelvin Mack/Blatche, he was one of the worst Wizards last year. I don't see it at all with Chris Singleton. Dude looked like a deer in headlights.

Injuries aside, Booker has shown that he can play in the NBA. Singleton looks to be nothing more than a journeyman NBA player AT BEST. Hindsight is 20/20, but I really wish we could get a mulligan and take Iman Shumpert.

Shumpert was taken right before Singleton...but, I agree with you. I saw nothing to be excited about from Singleton last year. I was disappointed by basically every aspect of his game...

I haven't completely written him off yet, but he's not one of the guys that I'm looking forward to watching this coming season...

[RonArtest15]

To be completely honest, I fully expect Singleton to rack up a ton of DNP-CD this year and be a lot closer to being that 15th man on the bench. I don't see a lot of minutes for him going forward. Ariza is probably the starter, and I think Ves is going to slide between the 3/4, taking minutes from Singleton.

*Also forgot Cartier Martin - assuming he comes back.

---------- Post added July-6th-2012 at 11:25 AM ----------

Shumpert was taken right before Singleton...but, I agree with you. I saw nothing to be excited about from Singleton last year. I was disappointed by basically every aspect of his game...

I haven't completely written him off yet, but he's not one of the guys that I'm looking forward to watching this coming season...

Ahhh...my bad. For some reason I thought Shump went after Singleton. Now that I think about it, I remember the collective groan from Knicks fans when they drafted Shump and SIngleton was still on the board.

[Going Commando]

Booker is the most expendable "actually good" player on the roster. That's why he gets brought up in trades. A second year player with a PER over 15 is good stuff.

Thing about dealing Booker is he's well loved by his teammates. Dealing him brings an intangible hit to the locker room. Also, Booker and Okafor are currently our only two front court players that rebound well. Another thing to think about.

With Singleton, his value is based on potential. He's got the potential to be a classic 3 and D player. He's got a clear cut NBA position and role that every team would find value in. He should eventuall be able to defend guards, wings, and stretch forwards well. That's high value. We'll need him for when Ariza is gone.

[RonArtest15]

The thing DWill has over Vesely is quickness and shooting range. He still has the potential to be a nice stretch 4. I'd at least consider making a deal because DWill has talent and really good athleticism. It's too early to give up on his potential, and Minny has no minutes for him, so he could be pretty cheap. Might not take Vesely or Booker in a swap.

If all it took was Singleton and a 2nd round pick, I'd be all over that. It would be a low-risk/high-reward type of trade. He can play both the 3 and 4, so that would give the Wizards even more versatility as far as their rotations. I'm just not keen on trading Booker or Vesely for him. In thinking about it, I'm not sure how many minutes he'd be looking at here in DC. Might be a situation similar to what it was in Minnesota. IF he was to beat out Ves for the back-up spot at the 3, that's where he'd see most of his minutes. That would be his best bet.

[NO iD=A-Ok]

Ha...I thought we'd gotten a steal based on Singleton's draft projections. Hopefully, he'll at least improve defensively this season.

[RonArtest15]

Ha...I thought we'd gotten a steal based on Singleton's draft projections. Hopefully, he'll at least improve defensively this season.

Man, I hope so. Anything would be better than what he did last season. Dude couldn't hit the broadside of a barn when shooting and was COMPLETELY lost defensively. Hopefully he comes back as a better player.

[Clutch03]

Looks like Nick Young got a 1 year $6M deal with Sixers. Seems like he'll be chasing a long term deal his whole career.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Clutch03

[NO iD=A-Ok]

With Singleton, his value is based on potential. He's got the potential to be a classic 3 and D player. He's got a clear cut NBA position and role that every team would find value in. He should eventuall be able to defend guards, wings, and stretch forwards well. That's high value. We'll need him for when Ariza is gone.

I guess the most disappointing part is that he was supposed to come in to the league with the ability to guard 1-4. All the draftniks talked about how good of a defender he could be from day one. I get that it takes some folks more time than others to adjust to the NBA game, but I wouldn't say that his performance last year was promising.

[Going Commando]

I guess the most disappointing part is that he was supposed to come in to the league with the ability to guard 1-4. All the draftniks talked about how good of a defender he could be from day one. I get that it takes some folks more time than others to adjust to the NBA game, but I wouldn't say that his performance last year was promising.

In retrospect, projecting rookies to be good defensively is a fool's errand. Bismack Biyombo was supposed to be Ben Wallae day one too. Fact is, rookies usually suck defensively. It's such an adjustment on that end of the court in the NBA. Especially for a guy like Singleton, who gets to guard the LeBrons, Paul Pierces, and Carmelos of the league. NBA players are incredibly crafty scorers. Takes experience and a lot of cerebral prep to be a good defender.

[StillUnknown]

In retrospect, projecting rookies to be good defensively is a fool's errand. Bismack Biyombo was supposed to be Ben Wallae day one too. Fact is, rookies usually suck defensively. It's such an adjustment on that end of the court in the NBA. Especially for a guy like Singleton, who gets to guard the LeBrons, Paul Pierces, and Carmelos of the league. NBA players are incredibly crafty scorers. Takes experience and a lot of cerebral prep to be a good defender.

This is why the projection game is flawed. They throw out comparisons that make don't make much sense, then when the player doesn't look like their comparison, they write them off.

Anybody expecting Biyombo to be Ben Wallace day one is a fool. Wallace was ridiculously good as a defender in his prime and Biyombo is as raw as they come. So much of defense is predicated on study and anticipating, its not fair to put those kind of expectations on a 19yr old who hasn't even been playing the game that long.

[NO iD=A-Ok]

In retrospect, projecting rookies to be good defensively is a fool's errand. Bismack Biyombo was supposed to be Ben Wallae day one too. Fact is, rookies usually suck defensively. It's such an adjustment on that end of the court in the NBA. Especially for a guy like Singleton, who gets to guard the LeBrons, Paul Pierces, and Carmelos of the league. NBA players are incredibly crafty scorers. Takes experience and a lot of cerebral prep to be a good defender.

The problem for me is that I wasn't encouraged at any point by his play. Iman was locking up stars this past season...Singleton didn't even strap mediocre guys up.

But, here's to hoping he shows something this season...

[Clutch03]

Looks like Nick Young got a 1 year $6M deal with Sixers. Seems like he'll be chasing a long term deal his whole career.

In related news, Lou Williams tweeted he will no longer be with the Sixers.

[Thinking Skins]

What exactly have you seen from Singleton as a pro that would leave you to believe that he has all this "potential?" Outside of Shelvin Mack/Blatche, he was one of the worst Wizards last year. I don't see it at all with Chris Singleton. Dude looked like a deer in headlights.

Injuries aside, Booker has shown that he can play in the NBA. Singleton looks to be nothing more than a journeyman NBA player AT BEST. Hindsight is 20/20, but I really wish we could get a mulligan and take Iman Shumpert.

All I can do is laugh. I wrote that and read your response thinking Seraphin. My bad.

[Destino]

In retrospect, projecting rookies to be good defensively is a fool's errand. Bismack Biyombo was supposed to be Ben Wallae day one too. Fact is, rookies usually suck defensively. It's such an adjustment on that end of the court in the NBA. Especially for a guy like Singleton, who gets to guard the LeBrons, Paul Pierces, and Carmelos of the league. NBA players are incredibly crafty scorers. Takes experience and a lot of cerebral prep to be a good defender.

Agreed. Defense improves with familiarity and rookies are still learning how NBA offenses work for most of their first year. They are certainly not in position to understand exactly how to contain them yet.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Also think it could make a lot of sense to sign Derek Fisher. It would be good for John.

Been thinking about this a bit the last few days. John has mentioned that he wants a veteran PG here, he wants some to be there for him like Hinrich was. Show him the ropes, teach him the tricks, and just be a solid backup. Been thinking about who that should be. Fisher would be a great choice.

I doubt Fisher would want to close out his career on the Wizards though. Maybe he doesn't have a choice, but he probably does. So who else is there? Wasn't there a rumor that we were looking at bringing in Hinrich again?

Edited July 6, 2012 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[nuposse87]

Regarding D. Williams, I'd wait to make an offer to them. If they do end up doing a sign and trade for Batum, that is a clear slap in the face to Williams. If they don't Williams has some playing time opened up to him at the 3 spot right now with Beasly out, at least that is the way I see it. Williams isn't even that great of a shooter so I'm not sure being a stretch 4 is his best bet. I wouldn't trade the farm for him, and in the off chance their center Pekovich doesn't have a great year again they may be in the market for a center...I'd gladly deal Okafor+pics for williams. Pek is also an UFA as I recall and the wolves might consider having a contingency plan.

Looking at it realistically, I don't see Portland giving up Batum..So the wolves may run with a lineup of:

Rubio

OJ/Roy

Williams/Budinger

Love

Pek

I'd offer C. Singleton, JC, '13 1st pic and probably thats it. Williams is a true tweener and I could him playing side by side booker if possible. Booker is also the better player right now, but his health concern is an issue. If it took Booker to get him, I'd probably bite but it would be a gamble...

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

The difference between the NFL and NBA is funny. In the NFL, JaMarcus Russell gets 3 years. In the NBA, one year in and the #2 overall pick is already being shopped. Is it that it's just easier to just KNOW in basketball?

[Going Commando]

Been thinking about this a bit the last few days. John has mentioned that he wants a veteran PG here, he wants some to be there for him like Hinrich was. Show him the ropes, teach him the tricks, and just be a solid backup. Been thinking about who that should be. Fisher would be a great choice.

I doubt Fisher would want to close out his career on the Wizards though. Maybe he doesn't have a choice, but he probably does. So who else is there? Wasn't there a rumor that we were looking at bringing in Hinrich again?

Andre Miller and Mike Bibby are both UFAs. One of them maybe?

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Andre Miller and Mike Bibby are both UFAs. One of them maybe?

Bibby wanted no part of DC last year. So **** him. And Andre Miller reupped with Denver this past weekend. Three-year deal

Edited July 6, 2012 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[nuposse87]

The difference between the NFL and NBA is funny. In the NFL, JaMarcus Russell gets 3 years. In the NBA, one year in and the #2 overall pick is already being shopped. Is it that it's just easier to just KNOW in basketball?

might be that, also might be that management may realize the "fit" of a player is bad. QB is also bad comparison, that is THE position in the NFL you invest yourself in, you have to give it time. Any position can garner a dominant player in the NBA. Probably more comparable to Devin Thomas (or any other young WR), the talent is there...but more than likely it will never manifest on our team...or in thomas' case...anywhere...

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

might be that, also might be that management may realize the "fit" of a player is bad. QB is also bad comparison, that is THE position in the NFL you invest yourself in, you have to give it time. Any position can garner a dominant player in the NBA. Probably more comparable to Devin Thomas (or any other young WR), the talent is there...but more than likely it will never manifest on our team...or in thomas' case...anywhere...

Still, besides QB, how many times are high draft picks in the NFL--any position--ditched after a single year? Or even two years (like Thabeet for example)?

[nuposse87]

A lot of it is contingent on development. There will be busts in drafts, that's just the way the statistics go, but if you give players opportunity to play I'd say that chance goes down. M. Gasol was pretty much solidifying his spot in Memphis so drafting Thabeet seemed odd on Management's part itself if you ask me. The best they could have done for him was send him to the D-League...and for a player his size I'm not sure that would have help him.

Williams is getting more playing time than thabeet really ever got, but again, the fit is weird for the type of player he is IMO. He was a dominant college scorer and he's been asked to take a back seat to Love (understandably) Pek, and if Batum comes to town, probably him too. I don't know, I'm a big believer in giving young players the right "fit" so they have an honest chance at developing. Look what happened to seraphin, he took advantage of his abilities and shined brilliantly.

[Going Commando]

The difference between the NFL and NBA is funny. In the NFL, JaMarcus Russell gets 3 years. In the NBA, one year in and the #2 overall pick is already being shopped. Is it that it's just easier to just KNOW in basketball?

I think part of it is rookies are easier to deal than prerookie wage scale rookies were in the NFL because of the money issue. Another reason is that NBA rosters and systems aren't as complicated and specialized as NFL rosters. NBA players are more interchangeable, more generalists, and all systems look for roughly the same qualities out of their forwards, guards, centers, etc.

I think NBA players can switch teams and learn new systems faster and more easily than NFL players can in general. Far less to memorize and there is going to be a lot of overlap.

If not for the guaranteed contracts, I think trading players would be substantially more common in the NBA than in the NFL for those reasons. If the NFL had guaranteed contracts, I bet you would almost never see trades.

I also think there is less opportunity for advancement in the NBA than there is in the NFL. Injuries are less frequent/serious. Careers are much longer on average. Roster sizes are only 12-15 and there are only 30 teams. Because the league has such a large, highly skilled pool of talent to choose from, I think top draft picks are far less valuable than they are in the NFL. In the NFL, the seventh overall pick is a huge investment that an organization will spend all kinds of time and resources to try and develop. In the NBA that same pick is kind of like, "Meh, whatever. Sink or swim rookie."

And at the same time, to master the NBA game takes a lot longer than it does in the NFL for most positions. Guys will be in the league for 7 or 8 years before they enter their prime. At that point in an NFL career, you're almost done. In the NFL, it's also not that uncommon to have a player be the legitimate best or second best player at his position in the first three years of his career. That almost never happens in the NBA.

Also patience is expensive for NBA team. They can afford to only be so patient with their players when they're ready to start their run. There is less patience and opportunity for young players to get burn unless their organization makes a concerted effort to develop them. Look at Darko Milicic. He was screwed getting drafted to that loaded team, as much as there was any serious deficiency in his skills/potential. They won the championship that year. No rookie was going to get an opportunity on that squad. Rookies who get taken high by suddenly good teams can really get screwed if they are project players.

The great players in the NBA are almost unbeatable once they reach their prime. They're just so far ahead of the rest of the game. Every true contender is usually built around great players in their prime, or maybe great players that hang around on sheer skill and experience and can turn it on long enough for the playoffs. So teams that don't have these are just waiting around on their youth, shuffling the deck, and trying to reach this point. Those are usually the only teams that provide a good situation for a highly touted rookie to develop in.