The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Darrell Green Fan]

I feel so blind lucky.  I was a hardcore for decades. Then after so much losing with no end in sight in a league where in most years we knew who was in the Finals before the first ball was in play I checked out on the NBA several years ago.  It had become pro-wrestling and I had little interest. 

                                                                                                                                            

I saw they traded Westbrook for some names, I just figured they were bodies as they always have warm bodies.  Then I started to pay attention after the fast start. I turn on "my team" and knew only a few names. I watched a Wizards team playing lock down defense.  Am I really seeing this?  Suddenly and without notice the team I abandoned is actually not only good but fun to watch.  This came out of nowhere and I'm still learning the players.  

Edited November 16, 2021 by Darrell Green Fan

[Hersh]

9 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I mean its tough because you need stars to win championships. We'd never get equal value back in a Beal trade so its out of the question but we're not just gonna let him walk either.

 

A big question is would Beal take less to re-sign Harrell? 

 

Was just looking at the rules, I think the only two ways the Wiz keep Harrell beyond this season is if they don't pick up the option on KCP or they trade Bertans and don't take back any salary that they can't immediately waive. Harrell will probably want more than an extension would allow and the Wiz don't have Bird rights for him. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Hersh

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 hour ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

 

 

Oh Hell I had forgotten all about that guy. This is just so weird, I don't know "my team" and that's so unusual for me.  Another addition when he is healthy, cool.  Like I found another Christmas present behind the tree.  

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

We had a total of 5 turnovers last night (2 by Kispert).......thats crazy...........

Edited November 16, 2021 by LetMeSeeYourWarFace21

[Ball Security]

38 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

A big question is would Beal take less to re-sign Harrell? 

 

Was just looking at the rules, I think the only two ways the Wiz keep Harrell beyond this season is if they don't pick up the option on KCP or they trade Bertans and don't take back any salary that they can't immediately waive. Harrell will probably want more than an extension would allow and the Wiz don't have Bird rights for him. 

What kind of contract do you think Harrell would get if he was an unrestricted FA?  He got a 2/19 after winning the Sixth Man of the year award and was two years younger.

[Destino]

1 hour ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

 

this is extremely odd, because there’s no injury.  What stopped him from “competitive” workouts the day he stepped off the plane?  It’s not like he sat idle during the off season, he was on the olympic team.  They’re treating this like he’s returning from a knee injury.  

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Hersh said:

 

Talking salary cap wise. The Wiz are up against it now while the Hornets have their cap set up to have room to build around Ball and a couple of others. The moment the Wiz give Beal a supermax and he's making over $40-45 mill per, the harder it is to build a team. This is all based on Ted never going into the luxury tax. 

 

I mean, the team is already here, its not like we need a bunch of cap space to being new guys in.  

 

Specific to this offseason, we have no idea how much Harrell will ask for, but Bryant is also a free agent.  Thats easy, let Bryant walk and resign Harrell, said this earlier.

 

Next offseason, KCP, Kumza, and Rui are free agents.  If we can only pick one, it has be Kuz. 

 

What exactly are we losing by letting KCP, Bryant, and Rui go?  Two of them haven't even played yet and we still have our best starting record since the 1970s.

 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/WAS.html

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

8 minutes ago, Destino said:

this is extremely odd, because there’s no injury.  What stopped him from “competitive” workouts the day he stepped off the plane?  It’s not like he sat idle during the off season, he was on the olympic team.  They’re treating this like he’s returning from a knee injury.  

There's reports Rui has lost a ton of weight.

 

[Destino]

30 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

There's reports Rui has lost a ton of weight.

 

Ever since I heard that I’ve been hoping ”personal reasons” doesn’t prove to be drug addiction.  

[Hersh]

13 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

What kind of contract do you think Harrell would get if he was an unrestricted FA?  He got a 2/19 after winning the Sixth Man of the year award and was two years younger.

 

If he continues to play at this level and is playing defense to some degree, he will be wanting significantly more. Plus, his impact on the Wiz has been similar to what Westbrook did last season once healthy. If you took Harrell off this team, they'd be under .500 now. 

[Chachie]

3 hours ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

 

 

 

 

I am on a couple of Wiz Facebook groups and every time I mention that this is all too weird, I get people telling me to "relax" and that this is all under control. The mystery and vaguery behind it all is simply unsettling and not on the up-and-up. If we're talking about "mental health issues" then I'm happy to say we're handling this situation a LOT better than Philly has done with Simmons. I also get that the organization is probably protecting Hachimura's privacy.

 

However, I am of the opinion now that pretty soon we'll get a bomb dropped on us when the team is somehow forced to release the real news about what's going on because this is all just... too... WEIRD. I'm starting to suspect that we won't see Rui in a Wizards uniform anymore, and maybe not in an NBA uniform. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Chachie

[Ball Security]

13 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

If he continues to play at this level and is playing defense to some degree, he will be wanting significantly more. Plus, his impact on the Wiz has been similar to what Westbrook did last season once healthy. If you took Harrell off this team, they'd be under .500 now. 

Don’t want to put numbers on it?  You think he gets more than Christian Wood?  You think he gets more than Jarrett Allen?

[Hersh]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I mean, the team is already here, its not like we need a bunch of cap space to being new guys in.  

 

Specific to this offseason, we have no idea how much Harrell will ask for, but Bryant is also a free agent.  Thats easy, let Bryant walk and resign Harrell, said this earlier.

 

Next offseason, KCP, Kumza, and Rui are free agents.  If we can only pick one, it has be Kuz. 

 

What exactly are we losing by letting KCP, Bryant, and Rui go?  Two of them haven't even played yet and we still have our best starting record since the 1970s.

 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/WAS.html

 

You are making a great case for not paying Beal big money. Thanks for that. Wiz can't afford KCP and Harrell this off-season and stay under the luxury tax line plus fill out the roster. KCP is as good as gone. He's not worth $14 mill and if Beal would get upset by that, he's not about winning. 

 

If the goal is actually compete for a championship, this is not the final roster. 

15 minutes ago, Chachie said:

 

 

 

I am on a couple of Wiz Facebook groups and every time I mention that this is all too weird, I get people telling me to "relax" and that this is all under control. The mystery and vaguery behind it all is simply unsettling and not on the up-and-up. If we're talking about "mental health issues" then I'm happy to say we're handling this situation a LOT better than Philly has done with Simmons. I also get that the organization is probably protecting Hachimura's privacy.

 

However, I am of the opinion now that pretty soon we'll get a bomb dropped on us when the team is somehow forced to release the real news about what's going on because this is all just... too... WEIRD. I'm starting to suspect that we won't see Rui in a Wizards uniform anymore, and maybe not in an NBA uniform. 

 

It's extremely weird to the point where I hope it's a physical issue and not a really bad mental health problem. But if it was physical, I think we'd know cause that's not a big deal in the context of sports.

[Hersh]

13 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Don’t want to put numbers on it?  You think he gets more than Christian Wood?  You think he gets more than Jarrett Allen?

 

I would be surprised if he was good with 3 years $41 mill like Christian Wood, but I don't know what motivates the guy. Maybe money is less important but all these guys want to get paid. He's certainly more valuable than Bertans, who is making $15 mill per. 

 

What do you think he's worth contract wise on this team?

 

41 minutes ago, Destino said:

Ever since I heard that I’ve been hoping ”personal reasons” doesn’t prove to be drug addiction.  

 

I hadn't thought about that but damn, I hope not. That would be sad. 

[Ball Security]

1 minute ago, Hersh said:

 

I would be surprised if he was good with 3 years $41 mill like Christian Wood, but I don't know what motivates the guy. Maybe money is less important but all these guys want to get paid. He's certainly more valuable than Bertans, who is making $15 mill per. 

 

What do you think he's worth contract wise on this team?

 

He’s worth the Supermax times nine, how’s that?

 

My question was not what he would ask for, but what he’d get on the open market.  There are always teams that make outlandish offers that throw off the market (see Mahinmi, Ian). But Woods is a pretty decent comp, imo.  Also, you have Harrell coming off a bad time with the Lakers.  So I can see fit being important along with money.  Something like 15-18M per year seems reasonable.  And they should be able to fit that in by letting Bryant move on.  
 

Harrell has been a great addition. A great teammate.  Will he keep up this pace for the whole season?  No.  Is he someone you want to bring back? Yes.  But we still have Gafford and you can get a FA bench guy like Whiteside or Drummond for the rotation if Harrell prices himself out.

 

I just don’t see retaining him being as difficult as you are making it out to be.

[Hersh]

4 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

He’s worth the Supermax times nine, how’s that?

 

My question was not what he would ask for, but what he’d get on the open market.  There are always teams that make outlandish offers that throw off the market (see Mahinmi, Ian). But Woods is a pretty decent comp, imo.  Also, you have Harrell coming off a bad time with the Lakers.  So I can see fit being important along with money.  Something like 15-18M per year seems reasonable.  And they should be able to fit that in by letting Bryant move on.  
 

Harrell has been a great addition. A great teammate.  Will he keep up this pace for the whole season?  No.  Is he someone you want to bring back? Yes.  But we still have Gafford and you can get a FA bench guy like Whiteside or Drummond for the rotation if Harrell prices himself out.

 

I just don’t see retaining him being as difficult as you are making it out to be.

 

Not sure the Supermax times nine thing. 

 

If you give Harrell $15 mill and Beal is at $40 million and everything else stays the same, you are over the luxury cap line. The Wiz, without Harrell, Thomas, Holiday and Neto and with Beal's option at $36 million are at $115 mill for next season. Signing Harrell alone puts them at $130 mill. 

[Dan T.]

The change in attitude toward mental health issues in sports has been a positive development in the last couple of years.  The sporting public, with - let's admit it - a higher percentage of Neanderthal thinking that the public at large - has been forced to confront the issue recently in large measure by two women athletes - gymnast Simone Biles and tennis player Naomi Osaka - who were brave enough to come forward with the struggles they were facing.  In the NBA, Kevin Love has spoken and written candidly about some of his struggles. And as an aside, it is not insignificant that a wildly popular television series with sports as a backdrop -  Ted Lasso - raised the issue as a major story arc in its most reason season.

 

I hope Rui is getting the care he needs and that the Wizards are looking out for his best interests.  From the outside looking in, that seems to be the  case.

 

[Ball Security]

12 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

Not sure the Supermax times nine thing. 

 

If you give Harrell $15 mill and Beal is at $40 million and everything else stays the same, you are over the luxury cap line. The Wiz, without Harrell, Thomas, Holiday and Neto and with Beal's option at $36 million are at $115 mill for next season. Signing Harrell alone puts them at $130 mill. 

Aren’t they at $136M this season?

Edited November 16, 2021 by Ball Security

[Hersh]

5 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Aren’t they at $136M this season?

 

$134. Just under the tax line. I was thinking the tax line was $131 or $132 and I knew they were under it. The point remains the same. They are up against or over it was those two contracts. Gotta have a backup PG and SG at a minimum plus need a true big center. Another reason I didn't understand the Kispert pick when there were guys available that could serve one of those roles next season. They could use KCP in a trade to acquire a couple of pieces from a team looking to shed cap space. 

 

That Bertans contract is the big killer here. Not having that solves some of the cap issues. 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Hersh said:

 

You are making a great case for not paying Beal big money. Thanks for that. Wiz can't afford KCP and Harrell this off-season and stay under the luxury tax line plus fill out the roster. KCP is as good as gone. He's not worth $14 mill and if Beal would get upset by that, he's not about winning. 

 

If the goal is actually compete for a championship, this is not the final roster. 

 

I have a couple questions:

 

What is the luxury tax line next year?

How much is supermax?

How much space will we have if Beal signs supermax?

 

This isnt the case for getting rid of Beal at all, you at least have to confirm those questions since I posted the current space situation and how to cause minimal disruption to it.

 

Saying Beal won't sign sign supermax without KCP is not a fact worth throwing out there to make your case, it makes no sense at all.  Neither saying we are good without Beal because we beat a superweak Orlando and New Orleans team.

 

We know what we get with Beal, we have no idea what we get with a new draft pick.  Thats a helluva risk, I dont agree with taking it.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Renegade7

[Ball Security]

7 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

$134. Just under the tax line. I was thinking the tax line was $131 or $132 and I knew they were under it. The point remains the same. They are up against or over it was those two contracts. Gotta have a backup PG and SG at a minimum plus need a true big center. Another reason I didn't understand the Kispert pick when there were guys available that could serve one of those roles next season. They could use KCP in a trade to acquire a couple of pieces from a team looking to shed cap space. 

 

That Bertans contract is the big killer here. Not having that solves some of the cap issues. 

Basketball-reference.com has them at $136M (135,998,149).  
 

They have $22M+ committed next year to guys who aren’t giving us anything so far this year.  There’s flexibility there to add pieces to a core of Beal, Dinwiddie, Kuzma, Harrell, Gafford, and Avdija.  KCP may or may not be a part of that.  

[Hersh]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I have a couple questions:

 

What is the luxury tax line next year?

How much is supermax?

How much space will we have if Beal signs supermax?

 

This isnt the case for getting rid of Beal at all, you at least have to confirm those questions since I posted the current space situation and how to cause minimal disruption to it.

 

Saying Beal won't sign sign supermax without KCP is not a fact worth throwing out there to make your case, it makes now sense at all.  Neither saying we are good without Beal because we beat a superweak Orlando and New Orleans team.

 

We know what we get with Beal, we have no idea what we get with a new draft pick.  Thats a helluva risk, I dont agree with taking it.

 

The luxury tax line next year is about $140M. 

The supermax is tied to the salary cap. So if the cap goes up, so does the contract for the supermax's first year and there are 8% raises every year. So it's not like automatically having the cap line go up means having more cap space. The supermax contracts can eat that up. I think Beal can opt out and sign a 5 year $235 million deal after the season. 

 

The case for getting rid of Beal is a player like Din. Give me two of those guys over one of Beal. The Westbrook trade created the depth on this team that is behind how well the Wiz have started. I get that teams need stars to win but it's got to be the right stars to pay that much money. 

 

[Hersh]

2 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Basketball-reference.com has them at $136M (135,998,149).  
 

They have $22M+ committed next year to guys who aren’t giving us anything so far this year.  There’s flexibility there to add pieces to a core of Beal, Dinwiddie, Kuzma, Harrell, Gafford, and Avdija.  KCP may or may not be a part of that.  

 

You can't just wish there to be flexibility. If KCP has his option picked up, there isn't flexibility. 

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

The luxury tax line next year is about $140M. 

The supermax is tied to the salary cap. So if the cap goes up, so does the contract for the supermax's first year and there are 8% raises every year. So it's not like automatically having the cap line go up means having more cap space. The supermax contracts can eat that up. I think Beal can opt out and sign a 5 year $235 million deal after the season. 

 

Next years cap situation has us sitting at $116 million with Beal at $37 million already.  Say he does opt out and do do supermax, with your numbers 235 divided by 5 is is 47.  So that puts us at $126 million, leaving $14 million to resign Harrell.  You really think he's getting $14 million a year as a backup?

 

3 minutes ago, Hersh said:

The case for getting rid of Beal is a player like Din. Give me two of those guys over one of Beal. The Westbrook trade created the depth on this team that is behind how well the Wiz have started. I get that teams need stars to win but it's got to be the right stars to pay that much money. 

 

 

You can't depth your way to a championship, the current team is built around having a 30ppg scorer.  Unless Din can do that, the roster will fail.

[Ball Security]

3 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

You can't just wish there to be flexibility. If KCP has his option picked up, there isn't flexibility. 

I’m not surprised that you don’t think they can turn Bertans and Rui into something useful, just like they wouldn’t be able to get anything useful out of Troy Brown Jr. or Westbrook.  😲

 

Also, how much better do you think this team would be now if we signed our coach earlier in the summer instead of letting it drag out and getting stuck with an unwanted option?