2011 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[Goingforburgundy]

No we have have to reach 1k pages

[Rufus T Firefly]

Wow, I know the quality of internet draft assessments has gone down but wow that's a pretty weak assessment, I don't even think its fair to call that an assessment.

That's worse then some of Maguire's assessments.

No kidding. His two criticisms seem to be size and arm strengeth, problems the writer seems to have conjured from nothingness.

[Soup]

Really need a new thread. It has to be lock that the skins will take a QB next offseason.

I need constant eyes on my boy Kellen moore. He's going to dominate this year. Probably break every record out there.

but because he's small and looks like Casey Affleck no one will take him seriously.

[tibbidoe]

I still wish we'd drafted McElroy from Alabama...

*sigh*

23-39, 208 yds, TD, Fum

Not great, but not bad for a rookie in his first game.

[Dukes and Skins]

Everyone dont worry the new thread will be up soon I'm planning on posting it up next monday just in time before the college football season begins

[ATLredskin]

Everyone dont worry the new thread will be up soon I'm planning on posting it up next monday just in time before the college football season begins

And how will the 2012 version be better than the 2011 version. I would like for the main contributors to the thread to each have a post on the very first page. What I suggest is for them to use that first page spot as updated table of contents for the thread. Like if I want to find a ES scouting report on Nate Potter I can refer to page one and look for something like this "Nate Potter - post #287, #301" or if I want to look for Kiper or McShay latest mock draft then I can easily find that on page 1 as well referenced like the Nate Potter post...

[Dro89]

dude we gotta let this reach 1 k.. its only fitting.

[Hitman21ST]

dude we gotta let this reach 1 k.. its only fitting.

67 more posts and it will...

[wilco_holland]

You could just change the titel of this one in 2012 so we can continue here...because does 996 pages feel kinda cool. XD

[Conn]

And how will the 2012 version be better than the 2011 version. I would like for the main contributors to the thread to each have a post on the very first page. What I suggest is for them to use that first page spot as updated table of contents for the thread. Like if I want to find a ES scouting report on Nate Potter I can refer to page one and look for something like this "Nate Potter - post #287, #301" or if I want to look for Kiper or McShay latest mock draft then I can easily find that on page 1 as well referenced like the Nate Potter post...

God damn. I think that's doable and would be very helpful, but could you be more demanding? They aren't getting paid to do this, you know.

[Going Commando]

Really need a new thread. It has to be lock that the skins will take a QB next offseason.

I need constant eyes on my boy Kellen moore. He's going to dominate this year. Probably break every record out there.

but because he's small and looks like Casey Affleck no one will take him seriously.

I don't think it's a lock at all. What if Rex or Beck play well this year? Shanahan needs to show incremental improvement each season to keep his job security high. Taking a significant step back with a young QB in year three or four won't achieve that.

If he drafts a QB next year or the year after, it'll be with the intention of letting him sit for a while. He's here to win and start the process towards getting to the playoffs now. I don't fault him for this and I do think he can get to the playoffs if he keeps building well.

There will be no bottoming out with him.

---------- Post added August-16th-2011 at 08:48 AM ----------

You could just change the titel of this one in 2012 so we can continue here...because does 996 pages feel kinda cool. XD

The thread has gotten a little wonky. When I post consecutive posts it sometimes crashes. Groaning under the weight its own bulk?

---------- Post added August-16th-2011 at 08:51 AM ----------

I still wish we'd drafted McElroy from Alabama...

*sigh*

23-39, 208 yds, TD, Fum

Not great, but not bad for a rookie in his first game.

Those numbers are deceiving. I didn't think he looked good last night. His biggest problems IMO were lack of anticipation in the passing game and poor timing. And his arm strength isn't good enough to cover mistakes, a lot of those passes were batted around, floaters very nearly picked off. And he still has that hitchy release.

I liked McElroy the prospect--not in the second or third round range like some. But last night gave me doubts.

[postong]

Those numbers are deceiving. I didn't think he looked good last night. His biggest problems IMO were lack of anticipation in the passing game and poor timing. And his arm strength isn't good enough to cover mistakes, a lot of those passes were batted around, floaters very nearly picked off. And he still has that hitchy release.

I liked McElroy the prospect--not in the second or third round range like some. But last night gave me doubts.

I agree. I watched the game last night and he did not look too crisp. I remember one play in particular that was a deep pass down the left side, one on one coverage. He launched the ball and it had very little zip to it, arched very highly and required the receiver to slow down a good amount. Of course Jaws praised him for his decision making, but it was an U G L Y ugly throw.

[Mahons21]

Of the top flight rookie QB's who do you guys think performed the best? The worst? Not that 1 pre-season game will actually give a good judge of how their careers were fare, but just for fun.

I'd say #1 was Mallett, but he didn't start like Gabbert/Dalton

2 Locker

3 Ponder

4 Gabbert

5 Newton

6 Dalton

7 Kaepernick

Think that's all of em.

[Soup]

I don't think it's a lock at all. What if Rex or Beck play well this year? Shanahan needs to show incremental improvement each season to keep his job security high. Taking a significant step back with a young QB in year three or four won't achieve that.

If he drafts a QB next year or the year after, it'll be with the intention of letting him sit for a while. He's here to win and start the process towards getting to the playoffs now. I don't fault him for this and I do think he can get to the playoffs if he keeps building well.

There will be no bottoming out with him.

.

All joking aside, I believe rex or beck will become very productive for the redskins. but seeing how the QB class will be pretty good next season. Why not take a shot at a QB and sit him for a few seasons behind Beck/Rex?

I don't want to immediately start a QB and replace beck or Rex, unless by some miracle the redskins get Luck. Shanny has shown he can be productive with hand-me-down Qbs. Why would be any different with Rex or Beck.

But don't you think if there is ever a good year to get a QB, its in next years draft?

Its a QB driven league steve, we'll never be contenders with mediocre QB play. Rex and Beck might not be the answer.

[Dro89]

Of the top flight rookie QB's who do you guys think performed the best? The worst? Not that 1 pre-season game will actually give a good judge of how their careers were fare, but just for fun.

I'd say #1 was Mallett, but he didn't start like Gabbert/Dalton

2 Locker

3 Ponder

4 Gabbert

5 Newton

6 Dalton

7 Kaepernick

Think that's all of em.

Mallet looked good.. but i still have doubts he went to the PERFECT situation for him.. Locker looked great..

[Going Commando]

I disagree that ithe NFL is a QB driven league actually. The Jets have won too much the past two seasons in spite of Mark Sanchez's very substandard play.

Here are some NFL truisms/rules that I've found to be pretty airtight that receive surprisingly little recognition among league observers:

Winning in the NFL is about controlling the line of scrimmage on offense and defense more than it is about anything else.

In general, the "franchise QB" as it is understood by most fans and most media is a myth.

Good starting QBs are mostly made rather than found--Too many highly drafted, highly talented quarterbacks fail to become good starters, several marginally talented, lower round QBs succeed as good or even top tier starters.

Quarterbacks almost always take four or five seasons in the NFL to grow into excellent operators of a passing offense. The list of exceptions to this rule is tiny.

The best teams win, not necessarily the best collections of talent. Again this goes back to the fundamental importance of controlling the LoS since doing so requires a wholistic, synergistic effort by your players on and around the line.

[Mahons21]

All of this coming from the guy who thought MS wasn't re-building because we didn't draft a QB? cough ** Blaine Gabbert** cough.

I 100% agree with everything you've said, just didn't expect to see it come from you.

I'd add to your last sentence, that talent does not trump all, and factors such as, how easily is the player coached and how does said player fit into specific scheme a team runs, are equally important if not more important.

Examples:

Jason Taylor, probably one of the most talented front 7 players the Redskins had, however he didn't fit the scheme whatsoever, played very poorly

Al Haynesworth, possibly top 5 talent among all d-lines, but he isn't coachable

and so on..

[The Tris]

I'd say #1 was Mallett, but he didn't start like Gabbert/Dalton

2 Locker

3 Ponder

4 Gabbert

5 Newton

6 Dalton

7 Kaepernick

Think that's all of em.

Almost a direct reflection of the quality of the support system/players around them...

[Mahons21]

Almost a direct reflection of the quality of the support system/players around them...

I agree with that, but I taped a lot of these games and most of my evaluation eliminates the support system as much as a viewer can.

Mallett even if he has the best support system, looked far and away the best (no personal bias), he looked comfortable in the pocket re-setting his feet and scrambling two things everyone question about him, his passes were spot on. The side-step he uses to evade the rush, is compared to Big Ben's by either Eisen/whoever he does around the league live w/. If you haven't watched this performance yet, you really should (bias beginning to set in).

Gabbert/Dalton/Newton All looked somewhat nervous (who wouldn't be), and weren't quite sure of what they were doing. Gabbert pumped a pass pulled it down and took a sack for no reason, Dalton had that silly pick, Newton's body language just didn't seem that comfortable to me.

Locker/Ponder I didn't watch enough of, from the highlights, it looks like they were about average, Locker has one gorgeous strike.

Kaepernick looked plain bad.

What's your opinion on how they fared?

[The Tris]

I watched the first half of the Redskins game, and about 5 minutes of Jets/Texans, so I probably have no room to judge. I just don't care that much about preseason, especially when the games are on Fri/Sat nights.

[Going Commando]

I watched the first half of the Redskins game, and about 5 minutes of Jets/Texans, so I probably have no room to judge. I just don't care that much about preseason, especially when the games are on Fri/Sat nights.

I made it a point to watch Gabbert and Locker. I wish Locker had played more. Blaine showed off a special arm IMO. He made life a little difficult for his receivers forcing them to go up in the middle of the field (and should have been picked off by Patrick Chung because of it). But on the whole, his pass catchers were the ones letting him down. He's just so accurate and deft on the intermediate and mid range throws yet then he can drive it of his back foot 18 yards on a rope--precisely what he did on what of his attempts. He didn't play as well as Mallett did, but he's still a far bigger talent.

One of the things that impressed me most about Gabbert was his command of the huddle. This gets underrated. I thought Gabbert looked very reminiscent of Bradford from last year--a smart rookie who was able to get his team in and out of a huge array of sets, recognize a huge array of defensive sets and blitzes (the Patriots were surprisingly open and aggressive with their playbook) and still have the passing offense automatic enough for him to make completions with the whole field open to him despite only two or three weeks of reps.

Gabbert is probably good enough to win the starting job this season, but I don't think that's the route Jacksonville should go at all. It's clear that the offensive line isn't really where it needs to be right now and Garrard will be a much better QB than him this year and next. They should use the veteran resource that is Garrard and let Gabbert mature at a slow rate. He's a young prospect. Not only that, Del Rio is a 9 year coach. There is every chance in the world that regressing with Gabbert would get him canned, which doesn't benefit anyone involved.

Develop the support system and allow the young pieces on the offensive and defensive line coaches to mature and then let Gabbert come in and run your team. That'd be my plan.

[Soup]

Can we really judge any of the QBs at this moment? All of them have had a couple of weeks to digest the play book. I bet the coaching staffs of all those new QBs just gave them a hand full of plays to practice. Impossible to get a real feel for an offense in two weeks.

Does anyone know if gabbert will be starting week one? I would think the best option for all the QBs is to sit them for at least a year. I think gabbert got the worst deal out of all the QBs. People are going to ask way too much out of him. He doesn't have a great team around him and the organization is crap, will probably bargain binge for talent.

Mallet did look impressive with that arm. He's the lucky one, he'll just sit for a few seasons collecting dust and saying fresh. Plus all that time with brady and belichick will probably make him the steal of this draft. Mallett > Matt Cassel in a few seasons.

[Mahons21]

I watched the first half of the Redskins game, and about 5 minutes of Jets/Texans, so I probably have no room to judge. I just don't care that much about preseason, especially when the games are on Fri/Sat nights.

DVR and NFL network are good combo to have. Nothing better than going out on Friday/Sat, and then having good football to watch all Sat/Sunday, and since you've recorded it you can fast forward through commercials, as well as only watch portions of games with players you want to see.

[Soup]

DVR and NFL network are good combo to have. Nothing better than going out on Friday/Sat, and then having good football to watch all Sat/Sunday, and since you've recorded it you can fast forward through commercials, as well as only watch portions of games with players you want to see.

love DVRs I don't know what I would do without one. Watched all the game in the morning while working out. Wish the NFL would replay regular season games too.

[Going Commando]

All of this coming from the guy who thought MS wasn't re-building because we didn't draft a QB? cough ** Blaine Gabbert** cough.

I 100% agree with everything you've said, just didn't expect to see it come from you.

I still believe a QB is the central piece of any rebuild. To me, this is obvious. What other single position can you say that about? Why else do so many front offices pick quarterbacks high in their first year in power?

Quarterback is still the single most important position on the field and in the locker room from a leadership perspective. But the quality of his play is not as important as the collective play of the offensive and defensive lineman and pass rushing linebackers.

You can go deep in the playoffs with bad QB play if you get dominant play from your offensive and defensive lines.

Great passing Quarterbacks who are great leaders do cover up for a lot of mistakes though. And it might be just as hard to concurrently build a dominant offensive and defensive line as it is to build a prolific and super efficient passing quarterback. Think about all of the moving parts you need to have to get there.

MS and BA never really rebuilt in the typical format of the word:

1.) bottoming out

2.) drafting or trading for a young QB

3.) filling out the rest of the roster with talent around him

That's what almost everyone else does to varying degrees of success.

Instead they've gone for this approach:

1.) Throw a bunch of personnel changes at the wall in year one to see if you can make a run with what you've already got, knowing you've got the cache for a free first year with no repercussions from the owner--gives you a chance to evaluate the existing roster and install your schemes, draft a super talented LT (most important player on the LoS IMO) and revamp the offensive skill positions in year one. Having Orakpo already helped a lot.

2.) Start a large talent transfusion on the offensive and defensive lines and offensive skill positions to be nearly finished through year two.

3.) Focus on achieving tangible incremental improvement between each season--6-10 to 8-8, 8-8 to 10-6?

The problem will still be finding a QB whose window matches up with our window of contention. You can still contend for Superbowls before your QB enters into his effective years with an ability to dominant the LoS--Roethlisberger did it and the Ravens and Jets have almost done it with Sanchez and Flacco. It's just hard to build that level of front 7 and OL talent. But if Shanahan drafts a QB in his third or fourth offseason he runs a big risk of regressing badly in his third, fourth, or fifth seasons--which would seem to derail his ability to improve each year and keep his job. I think he'll be out there looking for reasonable veteran options as best he can to avoid the rookie QB growing period.

Best realistic scenario is that Grossman/Beck play well enough to keep their job a few seasons and Matt Barkley declares and magically falls to us in this year's class. Barkley sits the bench for a season or two, Shanahan's job security remains in tact, Matt Barkley comes in for little drop off in QB play and takes the reins of a team with excellent talent on the OL and in the front 7. Barkley matures into an excellent passer by year 4 such as Rodgers/Rivers/Schaub capable of carrying our passing offense and keeping our window of contention open long enough to replace and replenish declines in front seven talent from natural roster attrition.

And I still think it was the right move to stay put at 11 and draft Gabbert. I don't think we'll get a shot at a QB with his package of skills again. Maybe we will, but I think we'll be just a little bit too good to draft in the top 12 or so in the next few years. We could have gotten nice front 7 talent with our original draft picks and lost little of our total skill position talent gain considering lots of those guys are going to get cut. We could have had Brooks Reed at 41 for instance, or probably even traded down from 41 to a later second round pick and still taken Jarvis Jenkins or Justin Houston if we wanted a pass rushing OLB.

I'd add to your last sentence, that talent does not trump all, and factors such as, how easily is the player coached and how does said player fit into specific scheme a team runs, are equally important if not more important.

Examples:

Jason Taylor, probably one of the most talented front 7 players the Redskins had, however he didn't fit the scheme whatsoever, played very poorly

Al Haynesworth, possibly top 5 talent among all d-lines, but he isn't coachable

and so on..

Lavar was completely uncoachable. Albert took to coaching so long as your names were Jim Schwartz and Jim Washburn. After that Albert said **** it, I'm going to do everything my way because I know how I got to the Probowl before and that's the only thing I'll except. What a moron. If he had truly been motivated to be considered an All Time Great he would have developed some flexibility and coachability. Being stupid and stubborn is rarely a productive combination.