Conn Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Nice find steve, that is quite encouraging. I always thought Trent played better than he graded out as anyways, just because he had a TOUGH schedule of pass-rushers. I think Skins fans have overrated his performance in general, but he seems to be in much better shape this year and ready to roll, which is really a good thing considering what could have happened with the lockout. He wasn't lying when Shanahan asked him those questions on draft night on the phone prior to drafting him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 Nice find steve, that is quite encouraging. I always thought Trent played better than he graded out as anyways, just because he had a TOUGH schedule of pass-rushers. I think Skins fans have overrated his performance in general, but he seems to be in much better shape this year and ready to roll, which is really a good thing considering what could have happened with the lockout.He wasn't lying when Shanahan asked him those questions on draft night on the phone prior to drafting him. I think a lot of the things with Trent are correctible, he has the drive to be the guy if he didn't then he wouldn't have shown up down in weight. Its all technique refinement from here with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaBeachRedskin Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 OROY: I'll break the Mark Ingram hegemony and say Ryan Williams (since Ingram is technically 3rd on the depth chart and Beanie Wells kinda sucks) I felt the same way about Ru, but unfortunately for him he tore his patellar tendon in the game tonight and is out for the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Woah, didn't see that post from Tris. Beanie Wells sucks? I don't think he's lived up to his potential, partially due to injuries, but he's a very talented RB. Very. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 Woah, didn't see that post from Tris.Beanie Wells sucks? I don't think he's lived up to his potential, partially due to injuries, but he's a very talented RB. Very. very talented yes but the guy hasn't shown enough to make me fear him as a RB Conn he's been average Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 very talented yes but the guy hasn't shown enough to make me fear him as a RB Conn he's been average Cards are definitely having second thought about the Hightower trade now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 very talented yes but the guy hasn't shown enough to make me fear him as a RB Conn he's been average I will argue that he was a beast at the end of '09. Then he played through an injury all year in '10, and didn't look as good or run as hard because of it. He never lost the talent...he was just toughing out an injury. Williams going down sucks, but I think we were about to see a D-Will type surge in Beanie anyways, where a highly touted rookie comes nipping at his heels and he finally gets his **** together and looks elite. Just my opinion though. But Beanie will never be a great 3rd down back, even though he has decent hands. So that's a limitation right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 I will argue that he was a beast at the end of '09. Then he played through an injury all year in '10, and didn't look as good or run as hard because of it. He never lost the talent...he was just toughing out an injury. Williams going down sucks, but I think we were about to see a D-Will type surge in Beanie anyways, where a highly touted rookie comes nipping at his heels and he finally gets his **** together and looks elite.Just my opinion though. But Beanie will never be a great 3rd down back, even though he has decent hands. So that's a limitation right there. Its true I mean its also based on opinion as well you know Conn? I just never have seen Beanie as a guy I'd fear as an opposing D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Its true I mean its also based on opinion as well you know Conn? I just never have seen Beanie as a guy I'd fear as an opposing D You know, thinking about it, I definitely can't blame you. He came into the league with this stigma around him as a "soft" runner. Which I don't really get, because when he played well his rookie year, he was a tough runner. But then he played injured as a 2nd year player, so he couldn't shake the "soft" label. He's a guy I'd love to have to ground down the clock in the 4th quarter, as I think he punishes defenses. Or did. We'll see. In the end, you're totally right. As it is with many RB's, it comes down to personal preference and opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 You know, thinking about it, I definitely can't blame you. He came into the league with this stigma around him as a "soft" runner. Which I don't really get, because when he played well his rookie year, he was a tough runner. But then he played injured as a 2nd year player, so he couldn't shake the "soft" label. He's a guy I'd love to have to ground down the clock in the 4th quarter, as I think he punishes defenses. Or did. We'll see.In the end, you're totally right. As it is with many RB's, it comes down to personal preference and opinion. Wait is this Conn actually agreeing with me? #shocked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 It doesn't help that the Cards don't run the ball enough nor give 1 RB enough carries to really get going. We're talking about the same team that didn't have enough sense recognize that Hightower was more valueable then a 30+ y/o DE, lol. I love the Cards, they never learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Wait is this Conn actually agreeing with me? #shocked Hahaha. Hey, sometimes you've got good ideas, what can I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 It doesn't help that the Cards don't run the ball enough nor give 1 RB enough carries to really get going.We're talking about the same team that didn't have enough sense recognize that Hightower was more valueable then a 30+ y/o DE, lol. I love the Cards, they never learn. I agree. Arizona seems like a place where good runners go to die. Edgerin James (and he was coming off prime years in Indy), Beanie Wells, and now bad luck for RW. Tim looks exponentially better here than he did at any point in Arizona. If he goes on to star here, blame the Cardinals. Or thank them rather. They just don't run well. That offensive line really, really sucks and the scheme isn't conducive to top level production from their ground game. ---------- Post added August-20th-2011 at 03:53 AM ---------- Early impressions from tonight's game. Almost everyone looked pretty good but there were some problems. We're not capitalizing on our scoring opportunities. We can't settle for so many FGs and beat good teams during the regular season. Trent also looks bad. He gave up a really awful sack tonight on a poor cut attempt where he lunged around and barely created contact with his man. We've been able to run to the left, but he's simply got to get better in pass pro. He's supposed to be our stud and he's preforming like our fifth best offensive lineman... I know his assigments are harder than anyone else's, but he's a fourth overall pick and has far more athletic ability than anyone else on our line and pretty much anyone he faces. His play is disappointing. He needs to step the **** up. Hightower and Helu flashed big time. The defensive front flashed. Will Montgomery has been very impressive. Terrence Armstrong made his case for making the team over Brandon Banks. Gomes continues to play well. The passing game looks very natural and Beck ran around and made plays just like he did at BYU. We've got a nice passing offense and the running game looks so much better than it did last year. I'm so pleased with our progress this season. I seriosuly think we can go 10-6 this year. We can split the East, post a winning record against the NFC West, beat the Bills and Dolphins, and beat the Panthers and Vikings. This will be a good year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Tim looks exponentially better here than he did at any point in Arizona. If he goes on to star here, blame the Cardinals. Or thank them rather.They just don't run well. That offensive line really, really sucks and the scheme isn't conducive to top level production from their ground game. Yep, Tim's production has shot up but he's always shown the skillset vision, cutback, speed etc.They Cards are the only team to run the ball fewer times then we did. What's worse is that they're passing game was terrible, they had no reason to be that imbalanced. I think they're still reeling from losing Todd Haley as their playcaller. The mix of losing Haley imo resulted in a drop in the quality of coordination of the offense coupled with their own poor decisions and inability to develop the QBs. Good luck to Kolb out there but I've said before that if Beck wins the job I wouldn't be surprised if he has a better year then Kolb. Early impressions from tonight's game. Almost everyone looked pretty good but there were some problems. We're not capitalizing on our scoring opportunities. We can't settle for so many FGs and beat good teams during the regular season.I'm not concerned about the RZ because I think in true game situations Kyle/Mike won't run the ball or throw a screen on 3rd and long inside the RZ which is what they did last night after the OL gave up 2 second down sacks. (quick, no chance type sacks)I'm not concerned about Trent I think he'll get better as the season progresses. Hightower and Helu flashed big time. These guys are really gifted runners and good scheme fits, Royster too in a Keiland Williams efficient kinda way. I was talking about Helu's burst last week, he's not the smoothest runner (he's kinda herky-jerky maybe he's still getting comfortable understanding the ZBS) but when that kid makes gets pointed north-south and plants his foot, the field moves backwards. The passing game looks very natural and Beck ran around and made plays just like he did at BYU. We've got a nice passing offense and the running game looks so much better than it did last Beck's skillset meshes very well with both Mike and Kyle's playcalling style.He's got the arm and speed for Mike and the decision making for Kyle. I feel like I'm seeing an offensive playcalling with more traditional Denver WCO concepts i.e. more running and more boot-action passing. Hightower's break away run came on 2nd down following a minimal gain on a 1st down run. Last year we seldom called back-to-back runs in non 4-minute offensive situations was very slim. If this new run focus persist during the regular season I'll be a happy fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 You know how everyone was saying, "oh the teams with the stable QB situations are the ones who are going to come out of the gate fast this year" because of the lockout? I think it should be ammended to: the teams with the best head coaches are going to be the good teams this year. Mike Shanahan has got be one of the five best coaches in the league and we've got to have one of the best overall staffs in the league. He's the best coach in our division and both Reid and Coughlin are highly accomplished. For every week, you know we've got a chance simply because Shanahan can match or better anyone on the opposing sideline. I think in week 1 we saw Mike Tomlin get straight up outcoached and you won't see that often. Look at how much energy and precision our team has played with through the first two games and compare it to almost everyone else. Other teams look awful, demonstrate lots of confusion, sloppiness, penalties and injuries, play with a lack of physicality and emotion, etc. We haven't really seen that from our first stringers and key reserves so far and I think that is a testament to Shanahan's coaching. The Patriots and Packers are in a similar position this season with the added benefit that one has an MVP QB entrenched and in his prime and the other has a potential MVP QB just entering his prime. They're going to kill everybody this season. And the Lions have a great staff and you see it in the fire they play with. They'll be good too. How would you all rank the top active 5-10 NFL head coaches considering all of the qualities of personnel management and team building (not from a player personnel acquisition standpoint), motivation, knowledge and in game decision making, gameplanning, teaching, day to day administration, and anything else you can think of that's relevant? My list (in no order) is: Tier A: Great Head Coaches - Bill Belichick - Mike McCarthy - Mike Shanahan - Mike Tomlin - Sean Payton - Tom Coughlin Tier B: Would be great if not for a fatal flaw - Andy Reid - Norv Turner - Chan Gailey Tier C: Very good but I wouldn't consider them great - Lovie Smith - Marvin Lewis - Rex Ryan - John Fox - Jim Harbaugh - Ken Wisenhunt Tier D: Terrific coach and administrator, but lord he needs a strong GM - Pete Carroll Tier E: Meh - Jack Del Rio - Steve Spagnuolo Tier F: Overrated - Mike Smith - Jim Caldwell Tier G: Pretty good coach screwed by his ownership - Tony Sparano Tier H: Safe to call the future bright - Jim Schwartz - Raheem Morris - Todd Haley Tier I: I'd be excited about these new guys - Pat Shurmur - Mike Munchak - John Harbaugh Tier J - Who knows? - Jason Garrett - Leslie Frazier - Hue Jackson - Ron Rivera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 You know Steve it was one of the first things I noticed even in Training Camp. Its very methodical how Mike runs things and its perfectly on schedule. What he does to this team is great to watch, because you know that every week you'll have a shot to win because like you said the preparation. Look at the colts last night, they looked sloppy. Yes they had Painter who is not that good and all, but still they had false start penalties and their D looked lost. Us on the other hand looked pretty crisp and were prepared for anything the D was throwing at us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seantaylor=god Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Tier F: Overrated - Mike Smith - Jim Caldwell Tier G: Pretty good coach screwed by his ownership - Tony Sparano Tier H: Safe to call the future bright - Jim Schwartz - Raheem Morris - Todd Haley Tier I: I'd be excited about these new guys - Pat Shurmur - Mike Munchak - John Harbaugh Tier J - Who knows? - Jason Garrett - Leslie Frazier - Hue Jackson - Ron Rivera I don't watch a lot of the Falcons, but you have to think if they don't make some noise in the playoffs Mike Smith has to get some flak for it. Also, I will never understand how he didn't get a suspension for his actions during the DHall skirmish. Dhall got surrounded by players and coaches and Smith was out of control in his face. I thought it was completely unacceptable behavior for a head coach. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/09/falcons-redskins-fight-vi_n_351238.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I felt the same way about Ru, but unfortunately for him he tore his patellar tendon in the game tonight and is out for the season. Yeah, obviously this would no longer be my choice. ---------- Post added August-20th-2011 at 07:04 PM ---------- Woah, didn't see that post from Tris.Beanie Wells sucks? I don't think he's lived up to his potential, partially due to injuries, but he's a very talented RB. Very. He's living off his draft position. He's been below league average back. He's started 2 games in his career, is brittle, and has had one (1) 100 yard game in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 -Bill Belichick-can coach every phase of the game on both sides of the ball, is a good personell guy and an all around prick - Mike McCarthy-progressive concepts in the vertical/spread WCO mutant - Andy Reid- pass happy,vertical WCO proponent-good personnel man - Mike Tomlin-great manager of people - Sean Payton-progreesive multiple offensive Erhardt-Perkins background - Mike Shanahan-tested and effective ZB run/boot-action WCO based attack - Tom Coughlin-disciplinarian/manager Great Offensive/Defensive minds - Norv Turner - Chan Gailey - Rex Ryan - Lovie Smith - Marvin Lewis - Steve Spagnuolo Managers- - Jim Harbaugh - Mike Smith - Raheem Morris Up and Comers: - Pat Shurmur-traditional WCO proponent - Hue Jackson-Coryell(smashmouth) proponent and manager Others: - Pete Carroll - Ken Wisenhunt - John Fox - Jack Del Rio - Jim Caldwell - Tony Sparano - Todd Haley - Jim Schwartz Newbies - Mike Munchak - John Harbaugh-what is he doing at the QB position? (suspect) - Jason Garrett-I think he's too fucused on winning with the passing game and it will eventually bite him - Leslie Frazier--defensive manager type--will be carried by McNabb - Ron Rivera--Sound defensive mind but he's not heavily involved in his defense (yet). Imo using snaps and preseason reps to develop Clausen is a waste of time his time and Cam's development. I think Hurney is the only reason Clausen is still around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I'm not high on Sean Payton as a coach, I see him as vastly over-rated. More often than not he calls trick plays that fail spectacularly instead of running a conservative play that has a high chance of success, his superbowl run was practically gift wrapped for him by the refs, his d was awful until Gregg Williams took over, and that seattle loss, arguably against the worst team to ever make the playoffs, was just unforgivable. I don't think he's horrible, he's a great offensive mind, but he loves to get way too cutesy in his playcalling and I'm not sure he could adapt to losing Brees for a season, whereas any of the top guys can and have dealt with losing their top qb. Sorry for the rant, but I just don't think the guy is a top coach. Put him as our head coach and I guarantee he wouldn't last 2 years. Anyhow, my order would be: Belichick Reid Shanahan Tomlin McCarthy Ryan Harbaugh Coughlin Mike Smith Sparano (I don't think there's a coach who does more with less than he does, though Raheem Morris may if he can actually repeat) Payton Kubiak Lovie Smith Fox Caldwell Turner Plenty of new coaches and 2nd year guys I didn't rank. Shanahan gets so high due to career achievement, if you only count last 10 years he would probably be below Ryan. Fox might be higher at his new place, Carolina's front office gave him so very little to work with and pretty much butchered every trade decision they had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtyler42 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Okay let's talk Terrell Pryor's pro day...He ran a 4.38 - 4.41 40, he's 6'6 235, he only threw one pass that hit the ground, and that was b/c it was dropped, and he also said he is willing to play any position. I think he is worth a 5th or 6th round flyer in the supplemental draft. What do the QB gurus think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilco_holland Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I think the Pryor is making GM's minds go qrazy because: - Huge project. The dude is an athlete but what will be his most productive position? - He won't come in and push you to a SB. He is a way to big project to come in and produce, so the top teams probally pass on him to safe a roster spot for there run to Indy. - Everybody says he is a 5th rounder, so teams might turn in a 4th round pick because they otherwise could be out of position. - There is a guy called Al Davis in this league, the guy could turn in a second round pick for him. So if you really like him you need to project what Al will do....impossible. - How do you evaluate his route running abilitie when you can't work him out? Not? So you just gess his is capeble of doing that (if you see him as a WR). - Can you mindpick him? No. The only thing you can do is talk to his ex coaches and watch Grudens QB camp(fail). - You spend a pick without knowing would could be the other options with that pick. Maby you spend a 4th rounder on him and durning the 2012 draft when your 4th round pick comes up 20 players, who you would have graded higher the Pryor, would be afailble. Are you happy then? - General Goodell suspended him before his is even in the league. That's not a good sign. Goodell already has a eye on him. So at the end I think you are spending a pick on a player that you gess could work out. How much faith do you have in your gesses? The Pats can **** up a 3 or 4th round draft pick because there team is loaded and they have a huge amount of picks but a lot of teams aren't in that position. So it's really a gess game who will want to spend a pick and how high will that pick be. My money is on the Raiders Just came up to me......hasn´t this the Matt Jones project 2.0 writting all over him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2STaylor1 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 i agree with the above poster, Raiders will probably over spend to get this guy, and if they dont it may show that Al isnt making the personnel decisions. i believe the redskins will pass on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWinSkins83 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I think Mike and Kyle should get him. Like come on their system can make anyone look good. Im pretty sure he will take into coaching. He would have an incentive to work hard cause one he will be on the bench. Another is he will be getting paid alittle amount. Pryor is one of those players that dont wanna be seen as a bust, he's too big headed for that I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Okay let's talk Terrell Pryor's pro day...He ran a 4.38 - 4.41 40, he's 6'6 235, he only threw one pass that hit the ground, and that was b/c it was dropped, and he also said he is willing to play any position. I think he is worth a 5th or 6th round flyer in the supplemental draft. What do the QB gurus think?For a coach that believes and has made an accurate assessment of Terrell's willingness to learn and grind at being a QB.A coaching staff that's has the know how and the ability to patiently develop him; names that jump to my mind: Chan Gailey Andy Reid Mike McCarthy I wouldn't put it past Oakland b/c of the owner and their speed focused phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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