Tea Party Lights Fuse for Rebellion on Right - NYT

[Dan T.]

The diffuse, loose coalition of groups making up the "Tea Party" movement face a balancing act. One one side they have Sarah Palin telling them to pick an existing party, which seems antithetical to the whole point of the movement. On the other side... NYT reporter David Barstow writes about extremist factions cozying up to the Tea Party movment, with rebellious rhetoric hinting at armed rebellion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/16/us/politics/16teaparty.html

Intro excerpt:

The Tea Party movement has become a platform for conservative populist discontent, a force in Republican politics for revival, as it was in the Massachusetts Senate election, or for division. But it is also about the profound private transformation of people like Mrs. Stout (local Idaho Tea Party president), people who not long ago were not especially interested in politics, yet now say they are bracing for tyranny.

These people are part of a significant undercurrent within the Tea Party movement that has less in common with the Republican Party than with the Patriot movement, a brand of politics historically associated with libertarians, militia groups, anti-immigration advocates and those who argue for the abolition of the Federal Reserve.

Urged on by conservative commentators, waves of newly minted activists are turning to once-obscure books and Web sites and discovering a set of ideas long dismissed as the preserve of conspiracy theorists, interviews conducted across the country over several months show. In this view, Mr. Obama and many of his predecessors (including George W. Bush) have deliberately undermined the Constitution and free enterprise for the benefit of a shadowy international network of wealthy elites.

Among the more inflammatory quotes from the article:

Also represented was Oath Keepers, whose members call themselves “guardians of the Republic.” Oath Keepers recruits military and law enforcement officials who are asked to disobey orders the group deems unconstitutional. These include orders to conduct warrantless searches, arrest Americans as unlawful enemy combatants or force civilians into “any form of detention camps.”

Oath Keepers, which has been recruiting at Tea Party events around the country and forging informal ties with militia groups, has an enthusiastic following in Friends for Liberty. “A lot of my people are Oath Keepers,” Mr. Stevens said. “I’m an honorary Oath Keeper myself.”

Mrs. Stout became an honorary Oath Keeper, too, and sent an e-mail message urging her members to sign up. “They may be very important for our future,” she wrote.

---

Politicians courting the Tea Party movement are also alluding to Patriot dogma. At a Tea Party protest in Las Vegas, Joe Heck, a Republican running for Congress, blamed both the Democratic and Republican Parties for moving the country toward “socialistic tyranny.” In Texas, Gov. Rick Perry, a Republican seeking re-election, threw his support behind the state sovereignty movement. And in Indiana, Richard Behney, a Republican Senate candidate, told Tea Party supporters what he would do if the 2010 elections did not produce results to his liking: “I’m cleaning my guns and getting ready for the big show. And I’m serious about that, and I bet you are, too.”

--

Not long ago, Mrs. Stout sent an e-mail message to her members under the subject line: “Revolution.” It linked to an article by Greg Evensen, a leader in the militia movement, titled “The Anatomy of an American Revolution,” that listed “grievances” he said “would justify a declaration of war against any criminal enterprise including that which is killing our nation from Washington, D.C.”

Mrs. Stout said she has begun to contemplate the possibility of “another civil war.” It is her deepest fear, she said. Yet she believes the stakes are that high. Basic freedoms are threatened, she said. Economic collapse, food shortages and civil unrest all seem imminent.

“I don’t see us being the ones to start it, but I would give up my life for my country,” Mrs. Stout said.

She paused, considering her next words.

“Peaceful means,” she continued, “are the best way of going about it. But sometimes you are not given a choice.”

--

[GibbsFactor]

There will be no armed rebellion. Life is too good for most even in the worst of times.

[Corcaigh]

And these people are different from an American Al Qaeda cell how exactly?

[GibbsFactor]

And these people are different from an American Al Qaeda cell how exactly?

"Politics, like religion, holds up the torches of martyrdom to the reformers of error." --Thomas Jefferson

[DRSmith]

Why is that when a Dem gets the WH you get these domestic terrorists coming out?

[SKINS@THEGOALLINE]

Why is that when a Dem gets the WH you get these domestic terrorists coming out?

You sound like Rudy Guiliani.

Anthrax attacks

The blowing up of the King Fahd Mosque in California

Luke helder's Pipebombing in the midwest

Beltway Sniper Attacks

University of Oklahoma bombing

Chapel Hill incident

Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle shooting

The SUV incident in San Francisco, 2006

Attempted Bombing of the Mexican Consulate, NYC

Palm Beach arson incident, 2005

Edgerton Women's Care Center destruction, 2006

Arson of Planned Parenthood in Virginia Beach

Virginia Tech Massacre

[Burgold]

So, what you're saying is that Sarah Palin represents the reasonable and intelligent faction of the Conservative movement?

[Dan T.]

So, what you're saying is that Sarah Palin represents the reasonable and intelligent faction of the Conservative movement?

Well, aligning with one of the established political parties, as she advocated yesterday, would be a relatively mainstream step for the movement to take.

...As opposed to taking up arms in a violent rebellion against the government, which is what some fringe elements of the movement hints they may do.

[twa]

Well, aligning with one of the established political parties, as she advocated yesterday, would be a relatively mainstream step for the movement to take.

...As opposed to taking up arms in a violent rebellion against the government, which is what some fringe elements of the movement hints they may do.

That's the problem with a mob,it attracts the loons.

You need focus and organization or some will attempt to use it for their own agenda.

Which includes Palin.

[HailYeah]

You sound like Rudy Guiliani.

Anthrax attacks

The blowing up of the King Fahd Mosque in California

Luke helder's Pipebombing in the midwest

Beltway Sniper Attacks

University of Oklahoma bombing

Chapel Hill incident

Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle shooting

The SUV incident in San Francisco, 2006

Attempted Bombing of the Mexican Consulate, NYC

Palm Beach arson incident, 2005

Edgerton Women's Care Center destruction, 2006

Arson of Planned Parenthood in Virginia Beach

Virginia Tech Massacre

I think he meant anti-government "rebels" not terrorists per se.

[Mad Mike]

I've been saying this for a long time.

Every Libertarian that I personally know talks about buying guns and ammo. The more rational (although still miss-guided) ones just say it cant hurt. But at least one that I'm beginning to believe is edging into extremist loon territory is convinced there will be violence. None of them talk about starting it. They just seem convinced it will happen.

IMO, most of these people are just sheep, repeating the same thing they hear in discussion groups with like minded people. But I cant help but think there are groups of people out there who take this talk seriously and may just be crazy enough to try to start something.

Mark my words. The lunatic who flew his plane into the building today may not be a libertarian, but you have to believe he was a Tea Party fan, and the crazies will try to turn him into a martyr.

[ECU-ALUM]

Where will it all end?

As the Chinese say, "May you live in interesting times."

[Nickclone]

Libertarians are idiots, can you name one successful libertarian government? Wait, they don't like government. Can you name one successful libertarian country? Wait, there has never been one in the history of the world.

[desioreo87]

The two party system is gonna destroy america.

When you only have two main parties than big corporations only have to pay off 2 people. Its so easy to exert influence over politicians if you have enough money and plus with the supreme court being ****ing idiots and repealing the law against campaigns funded by corporations you will now have even more corporate influence where it does not belong.

[GibbsFactor]

Libertarians are idiots, can you name one successful libertarian government? Wait, they don't like government. Can you name one successful libertarian country? Wait, there has never been one in the history of the world.

Wait, so because libertarians aren't the populous, they are idiots?

Now that's rich.

[Veretax]

There will be no armed rebellion. Life is too good for most even in the worst of times.

I doubt the violence would be started by the people.

IMO, most of these people are just sheep, repeating the same thing they hear in discussion groups with like minded people. But I cant help but think there are groups of people out there who take this talk seriously and may just be crazy enough to try to start something.

Mark my words. The lunatic who flew his plane into the building today may not be a libertarian, but you have to believe he was a Tea Party fan, and the crazies will try to turn him into a martyr.

I consider myself a Conservative Republican, with Libertarian leanings, and I got to admit, THe people I know and talk to many think that this country is just waiting for an excuse to blow up into some kind of armed conflict. What would that look like? I dunno. I think it is a possibility, and is a reason that the people in power should start listening to the people rather than forcably ramming their agendas down our throats. However, if Obama and Team Lib continue on this course, there will eventually come a point when many americans will say enough.

This is something I believe could happen. It could be prevented too, but I do believe it is a possibility. I in no way would want violence to happen, and I'm not to keen about maybe having to army myself to defend myself from the anarchy, but this country has been so polarized that I'm not sure how reason can be restored to discourse.

The bottom line, Isaac newton's laws of physics tell us one thing. an object at rest, stays at rest until acted upon by an outside force. If we are left alone to live our lives with out government insanity bothering us there would be no need to react, unless of course something happens to spur that movement.

The next part says that an object in motion stays in motion until acted upon by an outside force. For america this means that as our country is being pushed down a direction by the people currently in power, it will tend to continue to go that way unless acted upon by some force that can balance it. This is in effect what the Tea Party movement is about, an attempt to arrest some of this insane change and restore a balance of normalcy so we can leave in peace.

The problem is law 2, The relationship between an object's mass m, its acceleration a, and the applied force F is F = ma. Acceleration and force are vectors (as indicated by their symbols being displayed in slant bold font); in this law the direction of the force vector is the same as the direction of the acceleration vector. So the directoin the country is going is directly proportional to the vectors of force acting upon it. And this is the problem. Even as the tea partiers try to arrest this change and prevent us from going over a perceived cliff, many in power have said and reacted in a way that sounds like thug politics, fight back harder, push harder and faster, in essence applying more force in their original vector. This would have the effect of continuing to push the country in that direction, unless there is sufficient escalation from countering Vectors (not all need be in the directly opposite vector) to halt or even reverse its current course.

Thus we realize law 3 which is that for every action there is an equal or opposite reaction. One of the problems with the current administration is their desire to try to muzzle certain voices on the opposition. Whether you like Glenn Beck, Hannity, Rush, Coulter, or whoever or not, you have to admit that if you stifle the civil discourse of the people who are trying to present their message of "hey we don't like where you are taking this country, please listen to us." At some point when its clear that talk is being ignored, its at that point when people would begin to contemplate violent action I believe.

Now where does that point Lie? I have no idea, but I do know that there are people who are tired of being tred upon, told to give up their hard earned cash so that some scrub on the street can have food while getting wasted in a bar that night, or getting high. There comes a point at which words turn into actions, and that is how civil conflicts become in effect war.

Now I'm not saying I want this to happen, far from it, but anyone can follow what I've read here and realize that this country is accelerating in a direction that ignores a large swath of people, and as this country was founded on the principle that the government rules at the consent of the governed, it stands to reason that a deaf government will eventually be compelled to respond and if not to civil discourse, to the results it sews at its own peril.

That's how I feel about it any ways, and it scares the crap out of me to tell you the truth, because if indeed an uprising happens, and a new civil war, I don't think the lines will be as clear as blue/gray north/south, and that should be enough to compell everyone to take a step back and try to find a reasoned course through this minefield we have found ourselves in as a country.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Libertarians are idiots, can you name one successful libertarian government? Wait, they don't like government. Can you name one successful libertarian country? Wait, there has never been one in the history of the world.

Pre China Hong Kong was essentially libertarian

[skinfan133]

Libertarians are idiots, can you name one successful libertarian government? Wait, they don't like government. Can you name one successful libertarian country? Wait, there has never been one in the history of the world.

appealing to numbers, eh?

[luckydevil]

Wait what? Most libertarians, I know ( as well as most movement organizations) are very wary if downright hostile of the tea party movement and rightly see it as a republican movement.

Just to add, I am a libertarian and don't own a gun ( never have and don't plan too).

[Dan T.]

I doubt the violence would be started by the people.

I consider myself a Conservative Republican, with Libertarian leanings, and I got to admit, THe people I know and talk to many think that this country is just waiting for an excuse to blow up into some kind of armed conflict. What would that look like? I dunno. I think it is a possibility, and is a reason that the people in power should start listening to the people rather than forcably ramming their agendas down our throats. However, if Obama and Team Lib continue on this course, there will eventually come a point when many americans will say enough.

This is something I believe could happen. It could be prevented too, but I do believe it is a possibility. I in no way would want violence to happen, and I'm not to keen about maybe having to army myself to defend myself from the anarchy, but this country has been so polarized that I'm not sure how reason can be restored to discourse.

I don't know. Voting people out of office has worked better than armed insurrection for 235 years. Why do these people hate America? Because if they take up arms against the government because they don't like Barack Obama's policies or the course of the 2010 elections, they are traitors, not patriots.

[luckydevil]

I don't know. Voting people out of office has worked better than armed insurrection for 235 years. Why do these people hate America? Because if they take up arms against the government because they don't like Barack Obama's policies or the course of the 2010 elections, they are traitors, not patriots.

I am not down with violence as a solution to solving problems, so I am with you on opposing it. Though with that said, I believe reform is a suckers game. The one thing I deeply reject is that notion America=government. One can love their country and hate their government.

I love politics. It was only a year ago when conservatives were accusing their liberal opponents of being traitors for daring to disagree with their government. LOL.

[Pskins]

After reading the article and reading ES member responses, certain questions come to mind.

1. Do any member of these "Tea Parties" have any idea of the concept of money?

2. What are these boobs thinking? I think they actually believe that 10 billion dollar aircraft carriers just magically appear out of nowhere. I honestly believe that.

3. I ask any member of ES this. If you quit your job and took one at half the salary and then proceeded to buy a 10,000 sq. foot house, a Ferrari, and a beach house in the Florida Keys, do you have a sound financial plan?

1 If your answer was yes then you are a "Tea Partier", admit it.

2. If your answer was no then you are like the majority of Americans

regardless of political party who want to payoff the national debt.

These fools need to wake up and start paying attention to whats really going on.

[Larry]

Also represented was Oath Keepers, whose members call themselves “guardians of the Republic.” Oath Keepers recruits military and law enforcement officials who are asked to disobey orders the group deems unconstitutional. These include orders to conduct warrantless searches, arrest Americans as unlawful enemy combatants or force civilians into “any form of detention camps.”

My opinion of the Tea Partiers just went up.

[Larry]

Every Libertarian that I personally know talks about buying guns and ammo.

No they don't.

[Hubbs]

After reading the article and reading ES member responses, certain questions come to mind.

1. Do any member of these "Tea Parties" have any idea of the concept of money?

2. What are these boobs thinking? I think they actually believe that 10 billion dollar aircraft carriers just magically appear out of nowhere. I honestly believe that.

3. I ask any member of ES this. If you quit your job and took one at half the salary and then proceeded to buy a 10,000 sq. foot house, a Ferrari, and a beach house in the Florida Keys, do you have a sound financial plan?

1 If your answer was yes then you are a "Tea Partier", admit it.

2. If your answer was no then you are like the majority of Americans

regardless of political party who want to payoff the national debt.

These fools need to wake up and start paying attention to whats really going on.

*scratches head*

How did you get that from the article?