Hersh Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 duplicate post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanCollins Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 BTW, there absolutely should have been a war tax on everyone to cover the costs of the wars. or a lever in the voting booth titled "I want this optional war and will pay $xx for it" insert credit card, enlist or volunteer oldest child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedk Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100202/bs_nm/us_budget_backdoortaxes This story has been pulled. Obama could not lie that badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 or a lever in the voting booth titled "I want this optional war and will pay $xx for it" insert credit card, enlist or volunteer oldest child. As long as there is one next to choose "I dont want to pay for John Murthas private airport". Or "I dont want my money to pay for old peoples drug plans." etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 or a lever in the voting booth titled "I want this optional war and will pay $xx for it" insert credit card, enlist or volunteer oldest child. or that. People forget/ignore that Bush never put the wars in his budgets and always asked for supplementals to fund the wars. Made his budgets seem more reasonable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Or "I dont want my money to pay for old peoples drug plans."etc etc. You've just broken that 40 year old barrier... maybe you ought to rethink whether you want people paying for old fogey's drugs. Just advice from one quasi-fogey to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikered30 Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100202/bs_nm/us_budget_backdoortaxesThis story has been pulled. Obama could not lie that badly. Yeah, I get "Article not found or expired on Yahoo! News" But it is on the Canadian Yahoo, for now: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/100201/us/usreport_us_budget_backdoortaxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I smell a new round of campaign ads.Obama/Reid/Pelosi have revived something no one thought would be possible in a decade if not longer. They revived the GOP. This will get hung around the neck of every politico with a D after their name this fall. Nationwide, party support shifted in a slightly more Republican direction in 2009 after a historically strong Democratic year in 2008. Overall, 49% of Americans in 2009 identified as Democrats or said they were independent but leaned to the Democratic Party, while 41% identified as Republicans or were Republican-leaning independents. That 8-point Democratic advantage compares to a 12-point, 52% to 40%, Democratic advantage in 2008. http://www.gallup.com/poll/125450/Party-Affiliation-Despite-GOP-Gains-States-Remain-Blue.aspx The "re-birth" of the GOP is seriously over-estimated already. Edit: Although I wish it werent.... I wish the GOP would make an effort to actually gain votes with new proposals, as opposed to wait for people to come back by blaming the democrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Edit: Although I wish it werent.... I wish the GOP would make an effort to actually gain votes with new proposals, as opposed to wait for people to come back by blaming the democrats. Why? It worked very well for the Dems in 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nationwide, party support shifted in a slightly more Republican direction in 2009 after a historically strong Democratic year in 2008. Overall, 49% of Americans in 2009 identified as Democrats or said they were independent but leaned to the Democratic Party, while 41% identified as Republicans or were Republican-leaning independents. That 8-point Democratic advantage compares to a 12-point, 52% to 40%, Democratic advantage in 2008.http://www.gallup.com/poll/125450/Party-Affiliation-Despite-GOP-Gains-States-Remain-Blue.aspx The "re-birth" of the GOP is seriously over-estimated already. Not that it matters, but I bet 15 percent of those calling themselves democrats have never voted for or never will vote for a Democrat in their current form. It's the reason Florida is blue in that poll, but Crist or Rubio will wint he Senate seat by 15 points and McCollough will wint he Gov mansion by 10. Southern Dems wont give up their roots, but they wont vote that way anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Yeah, I get "Article not found or expired on Yahoo! News"But it is on the Canadian Yahoo, for now: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/100201/us/usreport_us_budget_backdoortaxes They pulled that one too. It's not cool to point out "The One" is a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 What social services. Be specific and attach dollar amounts too them. If you are willing to blame them then you MUST have done your research right? Then compare them to the cost of the two wars. I'll wait. I haven't looked up the cost of those social services but i bet it's more then $.01 so it matters... Let's use the government paying for health services (old peoples viagra, smokers cancer surgery, illegal immigrants broken leg, etc.) I say the governement shouldn't pay for those things. If you can't afford the coverage then Darwin takes you. Now you may say that it's mean to not take care of people that need help. So you can't say the Iraq war isn't justified. Saddam gassed thousands of his own people, I believe in 1988 or at least around then. So how can you say that we need to take care of people that can't take care of themselves but then not take out a man who kills his own people as a way to test his new toys? Now I'll wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Why? It worked very well for the Dems in 2006 Actually, I think the dems in 2006 at least ran on ending the Iraq War... i.e., doing something. Or, maybe I misunderstood... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I haven't looked up the cost of those social services but i bet it's more then $.01 so it matters...Let's use the government paying for health services (old peoples viagra, smokers cancer surgery, illegal immigrants broken leg, etc.) I say the governement shouldn't pay for those things. If you can't afford the coverage then Darwin takes you. Now you may say that it's mean to not take care of people that need help. So you can't say the Iraq war isn't justified. We can all say things. It's easy. I can say the government shouldn't build roads in your neighborhood, that you guys can afford it and if you can't tough. I can say that you should be taxed more heavily and if you can't afford it get another job. I can say these things without thinking as to the implications just like you're doing. If however we look closer we see that there are consequences and predictable outcomes. If you look at the middle ground of income in the US you'll find that half the households earn less than mid 40's. You take that and look at what the cost of caring for the elderly is especially the insurance rates and you immediately see that it's not sustainable. Add in preexisting conditions and the fact that medical bills are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US and you see that we are driving towards a cliff. Then consider this: These people are voters. So what do voters do when the system their country has in place fails them? They look to options that will remedy their situation. Can we predict that? Yes we can. You can say what benefits you and indeed what you are doing in acting predictably in your own self interest. I'm sure you also tell yourself it benefits the country. At some point you'll realize that politics isn't that random that things can be seen at a distance. The health care debate is something that will not go away because the system is failing. They have as much right as you do (read that again until it sinks in) to determine how this nation is run. As the system continues to fail as we as a nation continue to spend more on health care than anyone else... and as less and less americans can afford it and more are driven into bankruptcy because of it the side of reform will grow. Again this is all predictable human behavior acting in their own self interest, just like you. Saddam gassed thousands of his own people, I believe in 1988 or at least around then. So how can you say that we need to take care of people that can't take care of themselves but then not take out a man who kills his own people as a way to test his new toys?Now I'll wait. You're the one that doesn't think the government should help people. Maybe you just like the idea of blowing **** up? Personally I think Iraq should have been finished the first time... this time however the nation finds itself at a time of crisis where it's attention needs to be on it's people. All things can be considered, but not at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I agree that health care costs are out of control. That needs to be fixed by limiting frivolus malpractice lawsuits and by not spending thousands of dollars so grandma can spend a few extra days on a ventalator. Or paying for liver treatment for a chronic alcoholic. It's cruel but its life (or death, in this case.). I'm pointing out the hypocricy of someone (see California) saying on one hand we need to help people who can't take care of themselves and give illegal immigrants health care. But then protest a war that took out the man who gassed all the Kurds. NewsFlash: They could not help themselves from that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMK9973 Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 It amazes me that so many people are willing to fight for their country, die for their country, but not pay for their country. look - Lets look at the budget. Projected 1.3 trillion deficit. But that deficit is greater then all discretionary spending. So even if you cut 100% of all programs, social services, etc... We would STILL have a deficit from Just Defense and entitlements. So - If you cut all your numbers and you still come up short, you need more money. Now -Obama said over and over again he would not raise taxes on those making less then $250,000 per household. The Bush tax cuts (that are ALREADY set to expire) he said from day 1 that he didn't want to extend them for those over the 250k mark. So Obama said "I want the Bush tax cuts that are set to expire for those making over 250k to expire" and "I don't want to raise taxes for others". In the budget he submitted, can someone please show me where he differs from that promise? http://www.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/articles/2010/02/02/breaking-down-obamas-budget.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjcdaman Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Attaboy, O!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 It amazes me that so many people are willing to fight for their country, die for their country, but not pay for their country.look - Lets look at the budget. Projected 1.3 trillion deficit. But that deficit is greater then all discretionary spending. So even if you cut 100% of all programs, social services, etc... We would STILL have a deficit from Just Defense and entitlements. So - If you cut all your numbers and you still come up short, you need more money. Now -Obama said over and over again he would not raise taxes on those making less then $250,000 per household. The Bush tax cuts (that are ALREADY set to expire) he said from day 1 that he didn't want to extend them for those over the 250k mark. So Obama said "I want the Bush tax cuts that are set to expire for those making over 250k to expire" and "I don't want to raise taxes for others". In the budget he submitted, can someone please show me where he differs from that promise? http://www.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/articles/2010/02/02/breaking-down-obamas-budget.html While I am not an Obama supporter, I don't think he has done anything other then promised so far, at least on this subject. The problem with you "look at the budget" is that in your scenerio you are trying to pay off your debt in one year. And I agree with a lot of programs/social services...I have a problem with the entitelments...I have a problem with people expecting hand outs. Be it a big bank or a guy on unemployment. Give money to make schools better. Stop giving money to the illegal immigrant who doesn't pay taxes but wants welfare (again, see California) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinSkin Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100202/bs_nm/us_budget_backdoortaxesThis story has been pulled. Obama could not lie that badly. WOW. Why did they pull the story? Did the White House have a fish wrapped in newspaper placed on the doorstep of REUTERS? Inquiring minds want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I agree that health care costs are out of control. That needs to be fixed by limiting frivolus malpractice lawsuits and by not spending thousands of dollars so grandma can spend a few extra days on a ventalator. Or paying for liver treatment for a chronic alcoholic. It's cruel but its life (or death, in this case.). Or perhaps the lack of meaningful competition in the medical profession needs to be addressed. The complete inefficiency of the system as well. What percentage of doctors you think work past 6pm? I wonder how many people show up at the ER because there are no doctors they can go to instead? What does that cost the system. When is that last time a doctor respected an appointment time? This tells me their time is more valuable than their clients... a sure sign of no competition. When was the last time you received a sales call from a doctor asking for you business? When were you told of why to go to this doctors office instead of the others? When is the last time you got a sunday appointment? What percentage of doctors do you think take a phone call instead of asking patients to come in so they can bill them? Wonder what that adds to the total cost. There is something wrong with health care in this country that is obvious when you look at the behavior of the doctors themselves that I constantly hear are struggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I think anybody that thought about it for half a second knew that even if he was sincere, Obama wouldn't be able to follow through on his promise not to raise taxes on the middle class and lower. What still baffles me is why anybody actually believed him, or worse, voted for him for that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Or perhaps the lack of meaningful competition in the medical profession needs to be addressed. The complete inefficiency of the system as well.What percentage of doctors you think work past 6pm? I wonder how many people show up at the ER because there are no doctors they can go to instead? What does that cost the system. When is that last time a doctor respected an appointment time? This tells me their time is more valuable than their clients... a sure sign of no competition. When was the last time you received a sales call from a doctor asking for you business? When were you told of why to go to this doctors office instead of the others? When is the last time you got a sunday appointment? What percentage of doctors do you think take a phone call instead of asking patients to come in so they can bill them? Wonder what that adds to the total cost. There is something wrong with health care in this country that is obvious when you look at the behavior of the doctors themselves that I constantly hear are struggling. As far as this part of your argument, I couldn't agree more. There are millions of things wrong with the system. And you did a great job of listing a good portion of them. I just don't see Obamas plan fixing a lot of those problems. Now I admit I haven't sat down and read the entire proposal. But from the news I have seen, and I have read and watched from several different sources, I don't like his plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 It amazes me that so many people are willing to fight for their country, die for their country, but not pay for their country. Agreed. Except not many people are willing to fight or die for country, or at least demonstrating that will. It's just the brave few in the military -- and the overwhelming majority of those folks don't come from great financial situations. The rest of us are primarily a lot of talk (****ing mostly) without action. Republican, Democrat... I think most of us want everything but don't want to sacrifice squat. I still can't believe I got a tax cut during the Iraq War. Not that I complained about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100202/bs_nm/us_budget_backdoortaxes Advisory: Backdoor taxes to hit middle class The story Backdoor taxes to hit middle class has been withdrawn. A replacement story will run later in the week. Obama Admin's new slogan.... CENSORSHIP!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100202/bs_nm/us_budget_backdoortaxes Advisory: Backdoor taxes to hit middle class The story Backdoor taxes to hit middle class has been withdrawn. A replacement story will run later in the week. Obama Admin's new slogan.... CENSORSHIP!! hahahaha You really think Obama's people censored that story? oh dear, LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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