Military Drafts: What would you do?

[RedskinsTime]

Do you really think that I believe that my death is an impediment to my faith? Think about it for a minute.

On this Earth, in this lifetime, yes.

Maybe freedom to practice religion is a better term for this situation.

[Bang]

Bang- very good insight. In the end, your great grandfather did exercise his right to leave the country when his views became so out of touch with those around him that there was no chance for electoral reprieve. I don't think anyone would call him a coward under those circumstances (at least I would hope not).

Thanks. I only post that in hopes that we can see that it's not always so easy to label and decide.

Granted the examples of Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan are extreme in the utmost. But they prove anything is possible, and the only way we can keep it from ever happening again is by being vigilant against the practices that enable it in the first place. History can teach us a lot about how to shape the future.

~Bang

[kuraitengai]

If things are that bad, I might do what my grandfather did: join up beforehand so I could have some say in what I do. He joined the navy before the US jumped into WWII because he figured we would get involved; this way, he got to be an officer, make some inroads. Of course, he still ended up volunteering for damn dangerous missions :insane: so other people wouldn't have to go. :applause:

But if it were something unforeseen and all of a sudden we were drafting people and my number came up, I would go. I meant it when I signed that selective service form, and I still do. Of course, I also suspect that I would get turned down for anything resembling front line duty--I have truly awful eyesight.

I bet I could fly those predator drones, though... :saber:

same thing my dad did during vietnam. joined the AF as opposed to possibly getting drafted into the army. then he had his say into where he could possibly end up.

[AsburySkinsFan]

On this Earth, in this lifetime, yes.

And yet, my faith teaches that those things are temporary.

Maybe freedom to practice religion is a better term for this situation.

Without consequence...maybe, but no one can keep someone from practicing their faith because faith is lived within someone and they cannot take that away, unless they take your life. But then....Matthew 10:28 Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

The freedom to go to church and worship openly is a luxury a luxury that has been provided to a very few people throughout history and yet in times of persecution the Christian faith often flourishes.

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

Because I pay taxes and this is still a representative government and I have the right to engage in politics. My faith does not call be to be detached from the world around me, but instead to change the world around me. I think it funny that you think its hypocritical that I'm not disinterested in the happenings of my government just because I'm a pacifist.

Aren't you a pastor? So wouldn't that mean you are tax exempt? And wouldn't you lose tax exemption status by preaching about politics?

For someone that is so concerned about their place in Heaven as you are, I wouldn't expect you to worry about the political aspects of life since you can easily go to Russia or something to practice your beliefs.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Aren't you a pastor? So wouldn't that mean you are tax exempt? And wouldn't you lose tax exemption status by preaching about politics?

Well that might happen if what you were saying were true. I can preach about and take positions on any issue I like from the pulpit and in my private life I can freely advocate for any politician, however I cannot endorse any particular candidate from the pulpit, or campaign for any one individual. That does not mean that I am forced to sit on the sidelines in my church and watch. You would do well to read up on the laws concerning 501c3

For someone that is so concerned about their place in Heaven as you are, I wouldn't expect you to worry about the political aspects of life since you can easily go to Russia or something to practice your beliefs.

Why should I do that? All I'm saying is that my faith is not dependent upon my location or my situation in life. What's more is that while I am assured of my place in eternity, that does not mean that I am unconcerned with the temporal aspects of living in fact I understand that I am called to try and improve the temporal aspects of living where and how I can whatever they may be, but knowing all the while that those things are all temporary.

[No_Pressure]

If a situation was bad enough that I knew I would be drafted, I would enlist as soon as it was instituted. At least if I enlisted I might have some say over which branch I join. My grandfather was a 9 month combat infantry veteran in WW2. He was a rifleman in one of the costliest engagements of the western front, and was shot multiple times after being exposed to horrors of war that scarred him mentally for life.

I know all that stuff about duty, valor, and bravery, and he always told me that those were all lies and your country will throw your life away for nothing at any moment without a second thought or consideration. I think that times have changed and leadership cares a bit more about their troops...at the least they won't accept over 6,000 casualties in a little over a week to take 100 yards of land like they did when he was in the Hurtgen forest, but I agree with his sentiment somewhat. If I could get out of being in the infantry and sitting on the front lines I would. If I couldn't, I've been shooting rifles from my personal collection for years now and I'm an excellent shot.

[TheGreatBuzz]

I don't know what I would do....I'm already active duty so I guess I would show up to work the next day?!?

[ZoEd]

The world will not help, the people must help themselves. Its own strength is the source of life. That strength the Almighty has given us to use; that in it and through it, we may wage the battle of our life The others in the past years have not had the blessing of the Almighty - of Him who in the last resort, whatever man may do, holds in His hands the final decision. Lord God, let us never hesitate or play the coward.

[Rocky21]

If we reinstituted the draft I'd learn the words to O Canada.

[Koolblue13]

The world will not help, the people must help themselves. Its own strength is the source of life. That strength the Almighty has given us to use; that in it and through it, we may wage the battle of our life The others in the past years have not had the blessing of the Almighty - of Him who in the last resort, whatever man may do, holds in His hands the final decision. Lord God, let us never hesitate or play the coward.

That stinks of a Hitler quote.

[AsburySkinsFan]

That stinks of a Hitler quote.

Because it is, not sure I'd take my inspiration from a mass murdering psychopath.

http://www.military-quotes.com/Hitler.htm

[Koolblue13]

Because it is, not sure I'd take my inspiration from a mass murdering psychopath.

http://www.military-quotes.com/Hitler.htm

Hitler was one heck of a speaker and really did unite a failing country to do some impressive things.

He was also the biggest *******, with a special place in hell designed just for him.

Most of his speeches and quotes have the same feel to them.

You can't use Hitler to promote Peace, just like you don't use Ghandi or MLK to promote violence and hate.

[ZoEd]

Hitler was one heck of a speaker and really did unite a failing country to do some impressive things.

He was also the biggest *******, with a special place in hell designed just for him.

Most of his speeches and quotes have the same feel to them.

You can't use Hitler to promote Peace, just like you don't use Ghandi or MLK to promote violence and hate.

Again, like I already said; I don't think Ellis was using MLK to promote war but more to seize the opportunity to step up to the plate and do the right think or else regret it for the rest of your life.

Like I said earlier, you can find inspiration in words that were intended for other things. Don't you think?

[Perky72]

Those of you who would refuse to go-

Why did you register for selective service? Just going through the motions but its really all bull**** in the end?

I think its clear when you sign that dotted line, you're making a contractual agreement with your country. Yeah, they'll give you free speech and freedom of religion and all that pizazz. But if they need you, you better be ready to answer that call.

Why register? Because you'll be jailed if you don't for one. In normal society a contract under that kind of duress isn't enforcable, so I'd say registering for SS is far from a "contractual agreement". That makes it sound as if there's a real choice involved in entering it. Is paying taxes also a "contractual agreement"?

But the other reason to register is that we DO assume or hope that a draft will actually be used for dire circumstances. Not just circumstances like Vietnam, but ones where an actual threat is posed to our country proper. So, until a draft happens and the necessity of it can be assessed, registering is not a farce or going through the motions. It would only be such for true pacifists who would refuse to serve if drafted no matter the cause of the war.

If you don't agree with the cause, vote out the representatives. If that doesn't work, leave if you wish. Nobody is stopping you. But, living here on a free ride is unacceptable.

Simply not true. "living here on a free ride" is acceptable for anyone under 18, any woman, and anyone who would not be physically or emotionally fit for service, and any time the draft is not in effect, such as now.

The draft's purpose isn't to enter into a social-state contract with service as a requirement for state-granted protections/services. The purpose is simply to field troops for warfare, with punishment for non-compliance as the tool to enforce service. Currently, the draft targets healthy males of the age 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 19, 18, etc. as needed.

If the purpose was that sort of social-state contract rather than necessary troop buildup, then service would be mandatory all the time, and for everyone male and female, as some European countries and Israel practice.

[Koolblue13]

Like I said earlier, you can find inspiration in words that were intended for other things. Don't you think?

I do, but I don't think MLK would be appreciative of anybody using a quote meant to get people to stand up against hate, violence and racism, to create hate and violence.

I do however think Hitler would have far more appropriate quotes and be more appreciative, considering the context.

[Renegade7]

I'm gonna assume if they brought back the draft it would be for a damn good reason. If a reason like that came up, I'd probably enlist before I allow myself to get drafted. If I get drafted, I ain't runnin. I'm fighting, and hopefully I'm coming home in one piece.

[twa]

Come twa you can't make Dr. King advocate violence when he spent his entire career preaching against it. I gave Ellis the benefit of the doubt about being intellectually dishonest because I was hoping that he wasn't so ignorant regarding Dr. King so as to think that he advocated anything but non-violence.

If you want to say that this is about a call to arms then so be it, but don't attribute the thought to Dr. King. And no, when you quote Dr. King in an effort to support war then you don't hit a curveball or a foul, you swing and miss in absolutely glorious fashion.

"I don't give a damn about the color of your skin, just kill as many [sOB's] wearing green as you can."

Here we can see Gen. Patton's commitment to pacifism, and non-violent resistance.

See, you can't do that its either ignorant, or an intentional characterization of the person's position; i.e. an untruth.

So Dr King's whole existence and focus was simply non-violence?

Are you not using his non-violence teachings simply to support YOUR position and NOT the focus of his life?

Who is being intellectually dishonest here?

[Perky72]

I'm gonna assume if they brought back the draft it would be for a damn good reason. If a reason like that came up, I'd probably enlist before I allow myself to get drafted. If I get drafted, I ain't runnin. I'm fighting, and hopefully I'm coming home in one piece.

What if it's not for a damn good reason, like the last draft?

[fullnelson9999]

Enlist before Im drafted.

Coast Guard, Sanitation Department.

[Renegade7]

What if it's not for a damn good reason, like the last draft?

Hindsight's a ***** considering communisim didn't spread the way we thought it would if we did nothing. Regardless, if my country calls me to defend the only home I have, I'll answer. You wanna talk out there, if the draft was down to repress the American people, like some sorta dictatorship, I'll dodge to the nearest gun shop and get ready for the revolution.

Realisticly, all things considered, I can't see myself running from the next draft. And I'm fully prepared for the fact I know it's coming whether I like it or not. Hopefully, me being about my business or still being in school will keep my name out the hat.

[Bang]

Hindsight's a ***** considering communisim didn't spread the way we thought it would if we did nothing.

Well, you're partially right in that it didn't spread the way we thought it would.

It spread all over Latin America while we were pretending to try and stop it in southeast asia.

That war was as much about stopping communism as the Super Bowl is about sushi.

~Bang

[Renegade7]

Well, you're partially right in that it didn't spread the way we thought it would.

It spread all over Latin America while we were pretending to try and stop it in southeast asia.

That war was as much about stopping communism as the Super Bowl is about sushi.

~Bang

I understand. I just hope I got my feelings across and where I stand on the issue. Even if I don't like the idea of the draft, I don't see myself running, I really don't.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Again, like I already said; I don't think Ellis was using MLK to promote war but more to seize the opportunity to step up to the plate and do the right think or else regret it for the rest of your life.

Like I said earlier, you can find inspiration in words that were intended for other things. Don't you think?

Which in the context of this thread meant take up arms and fight in the military as such he is STILL using MLK to promote war.

[AsburySkinsFan]

So Dr King's whole existence and focus was simply non-violence?

Are you not using his non-violence teachings simply to support YOUR position and NOT the focus of his life?

Who is being intellectually dishonest here?

You. Find me where MLK endorses and promotes violence and war. Stop trying to act like Ellis was not using MLK's quote to promote taking up arms.