Quit Blaming the Offensive line!!

[laxpck]

Thanks; but that doesn't bolster your argument that Ryan Grant isn't "competent".

I just see Ryan Grants success as a benefit of having a dynamic starting QB.

Seriously, if JC was in Green Bay Grant would have a 3.9 yd average, instead of his current 4.4 and that team would NOT be going to the playoffs. There O line is just not that good.

Same way I feel about Pittsburg. If JC was behind that line their Running game would struggle MORE than it already does and they would not be in the hunt.

[Hooper]

It is time to move on.

Yes, he's taken a ton of hits this year. The o-line is terrible. But JC takes way too long to make decisions and struggles to read defenses pre-snap. Also, Aaron Rodgers and Big Ben have gotten sacked more and make big plays all the time.

Yes, JC has decent stats. He's had some good games this year. But he's had more games where he's padded his stats in the fourth quarter with dump offs.

The "system is a bad fit for him" excuse is a joke. There's this myth that JC is a good downfield passer. He has a big arm but it's not a accurate one deep. And in every system he's played in, he has shown he would rather check down than go deep. Every time Todd Collins came in highlighted this.

Look, I like the guy. I wish him well. But sometimes you just gotta cut the chord.

Shanahan will draft a QB in the first two rounds. And a crafty vet will keep the seat warm until that QB is ready.

[grego]

I just see Ryan Grants success as a benefit of having a dynamic starting QB.

Seriously, if JC was in Green Bay Grant would have a 3.9 yd average, instead of his current 4.4 and that team would NOT be going to the playoffs. There O line is just not that good.

Same way I feel about Pittsburg. If JC was behind that line their Running game would struggle MORE than it already does and they would not be in the hunt.

that seems like a hard argument to support. it seems that if a running game were successful based on the success of the QB, it would show up more than it does.

of the top 10 RB's - at least in yards- only 4 or 5 have QB's that are considered good to very good. half of them have actual bad QBing. i know you mentioned that earlier, thats its an anomaly, but it seems like more elite QB's should have better running games with your theory.

it seems more likely to me that grant is just a good RB, and that his line is better and run blocking than pass pro. rodgers style probably contributes to their sack and hit totals looking worse than they really are.

as far as the skins line, they are just bad. really, really bad. with JC's slow feet, he needs a better O line, and he just doesnt have that here. but i'm not going to trash JC cuz his line is horrible. it is what it is.

[Dana87]

All of the listed QB's have a MUCH better Oline than we do. Give us any of their Oline's and we win at least 3-4 more games if not get us in the playoffs.

Rogers from GB has been sacked more times than Campbell but still finds a way to get the ball in his receivers hands. My contention would be that while I agree that the QB's mentioned might have better lines than we do, Campbell makes our line look worse than it actually is due to his inability to read the defense. Too often open receivers are not found because he can not see pre snap where the openings should be like most good QB's do.

[#98QBKiller]

for the millionth time, drafting a QB with our 1st round pick doesnt mean we automatically just ignore the line. where some of you are getting this idea that if we dont take russell okung, somehow our line next year will be the same are either just being stubborn about campbell or are seriously not understanding how an offseason works.

campbell/bradford/claussen/brennan/collins/garcia: regardless of which one of these guys is taking snaps come september, this line will be 85% different. we dont need russell okung to field a solid NFL offensive line.

This post should be stickied in the Stadium. I don't know how many times I've seen people argue or insinuate this idea on here.

Drafting a QB in the first round does not equal ignoring the offensive line. They are not mutually exclusive. We can still build the offensive line and take a QB in the first.

[ZoEd]

This post should be stickied in the Stadium. I don't know how many times I've seen people argue or insinuate this idea on here.

Drafting a QB in the first round does not equal ignoring the offensive line. They are not mutually exclusive. We can still build the offensive line and take a QB in the first.

There should also be a sticky that says "taking a QB in the first round just for the sake of taking one is stupid and a wasted pick, especially if there isn't a "franchise" QB availible in this years draft".

JC sucking behind a decimated offensive line does not equal drafting a guy who doesn't blow your socks off with his abilities just because JC sucks. It makes more sense to bring in a veteran FA, starting Brennan, bringing back Daniels or getting a guy in the lower rounds than it does reaching for a guy with so many questions.

I think the correct answer is allowing a GM with actual FOOTBALL knowledge make a decision on what the teams most glaring need is.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

There should also be a sticky that says "taking a QB in the first round just for the sake of taking one is stupid and a wasted pick, especially if there isn't a "franchise" QB availible in this years draft".

.

explain to me exactly what constitutes "a franchise QB". how would anyone even know if he was gonna be a franchise QB unless they drafted him and ya know....had him play football?

the fear of failure of picking QBs is staggering around here. well weve failed a few times over a 16 year period, lets just not draft a QB in the first round ever again because heath shuler sucked.

i cannot believe the chargers drafted drew brees and phillip rivers. they should have learned their lesson after taking ryan leaf. those idiots!

[alwaysaskin]

I never said anything about Bradford or McCoy, truth is, I don't know who.

But Ponder? He gets sacked all the time, throws like 14 TDs a year...he has I think 14 this year but 5 came in one game. Give me a reason why he is a franchise QB in the NFL when he isn't even that good in college in a "pro-set offense"

he is not better now, however I have watched him in FSU, he's tough, which behind this line we will need, now he did not finish this season, so his TD total was down. Ponder does well with a bad supporting cast, I think by 2011 he will have the matiurity, we need, plus watch him under jimbo Fischer next season, if he stinks up the joint I will be surprised

BTW with Clausen maturity is still a long way away

[Brokenstriker]

problem with these arguments is that everything is inter-related ..

yes the line is weak

yes Campbell is weak

yes the receivers are weak

yes the running backs are weak

"the" problem isn't one of these things and saying it is will, as it does in this thread, receive countless people saying the real problem is one of the other things ...

face it ... the problem is systemic ... the weaknesses are everywhere with few exceptions

this roster isn't one, two or even three players away from being a top team ... its many players, an entire coaching staff, a playbook, an offensive coordinator and perhaps a couple of other things away from being competitive.

:helmet:

[alwaysaskin]

explain to me exactly what constitutes "a franchise QB". how would anyone even know if he was gonna be a franchise QB unless they drafted him and ya know....had him play football?

the fear of failure of picking QBs is staggering around here. well weve failed a few times over a 16 year period, lets just not draft a QB in the first round ever again because heath shuler sucked.

i cannot believe the chargers drafted drew brees and phillip rivers. they should have learned their lesson after taking ryan leaf. those idiots!

So honestly in your opinion, what constitutes a franchise QB, I think this draft will be a lot like 2002, where the first round QB's were busts

I don't see why we can't use Garcia as a stop gap for one year

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

he is not better now, however I have watched him in FSU, he's tough, which behind this line we will need, now he did not finish this season, so his TD total was down. Ponder does well with a bad supporting cast, I think by 2011 he will have the matiurity, we need, plus watch him under jimbo Fischer next season, if he stinks up the joint I will be surprised

BTW with Clausen maturity is still a long way away

this is seriously madness. why do some of you think that because our line sucks right now, the next QB we bring in will be behind this same line?

newsflash: sunday will be the last time you see this unit play together. ever. period. end of story. mark it down.

please stop the silliness. we arent married to this line for the next 3 years. ugh.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

So honestly in your opinion, what constitutes a franchise QB, I think this draft will be a lot like 2002, where the first round QB's were busts

I don't see why we can't use Garcia as a stop gap for one year

no one knows anything about the QBs coming out until they take some NFL snaps. a franchise QB is just a slang term for "an awesome QB". we wont know until we try.

we could draft sam bradford, and he could be the worst QB in NFL history. he could be better than peyton manning. we have absolutely no clue until we try him. same goes for anyone coming out of college.

we need to TRY to get a QB in the draft and SEE if he can play well. his college stats and how well he throws a ball in shorts in indianapolis mean absolutely nothing come training camp/preseason/regular season. but again, we wont know until we take a shot.

from everything ive read and seen on bradford, hes the guy id feel most comfortable with taking that shot. and if it fails? we try again in a few years.

did some of you fall off your bike once at age 8 and just decide you were never gonna try and get on the bike again?

[Bat~man]

he is not better now, however I have watched him in FSU, he's tough, which behind this line we will need, now he did not finish this season, so his TD total was down. Ponder does well with a bad supporting cast, I think by 2011 he will have the matiurity, we need, plus watch him under jimbo Fischer next season, if he stinks up the joint I will be surprised

BTW with Clausen maturity is still a long way away

What kind of maturity are you speaking of? Clausen is arguably the most NFL ready Qb coming out of the draft.

I don't understand how you can say he is so tough but yet he is out for the year with injury, I know that isn't really fair, but he is going to take some hits in the NFL that are a lot harder and come more often than in college.

Also, Ponder may get better with another year, only time will tell. But as of right now, his best games have been against iffy competition, he has been up and down against good competition.

That being said, I will retract my earlier statement and just wait and see how he does under a new coach next year before I develop any hate/love for the guy.

[skinsfan190]

Everyone who blames the offensive line for our failure is wrong. Anyone who watches professional football knows that good quarterbacks come up to the line, then they read the defense, they then direct the linemen and backs, and then they call the right play that gives them the best chance of success.

What Jason Campbell does is get out of the huddle with 6 seconds left on the play clock does not look at the secondary. He then waits until the defense is ready to give there best effort to blitz and then he takes the snap.

Campbell is a college football quarterback. Not a professional quarterback.

If you dont believe me look at Peyton, Rivers, Brees, Eli, and Romo sits to pee. They see everything before it happens. They also get rid of the ball in 2.6 seconds. Campbell has that on everythrow almost.

Collinsworth showed everyone last night the simple mistakes Campbell makes. He cant read professional defenses, heck i bet he cant read a Dr. Seuss book without pop ups.

Vinny u r out of ur mind. U can't fool me. Get off Extremeskins. Were done with u.

[Skinsinparadise]

explain to me exactly what constitutes "a franchise QB". how would anyone even know if he was gonna be a franchise QB unless they drafted him and ya know....had him play football?

the fear of failure of picking QBs is staggering around here. well weve failed a few times over a 16 year period, lets just not draft a QB in the first round ever again because heath shuler sucked.

i cannot believe the chargers drafted drew brees and phillip rivers. they should have learned their lesson after taking ryan leaf. those idiots!

Having three first rounders who arguably haven't made it, isn't a good track record. I can't think of too many teams over that same period that drafted three different Qb's with their first round picks.

Shanny seems like a smart guy so if he's the coach and he thinks that Bradford and or Clausen is a franchise QB, then IMO go for it as am sure they will. Conversely, if Shanny doesn't think either has the "it" factor, why force the pick.

I get that most JC haters think he's for the most part the ONLY problem on the team, and if you fix the position, all is right with the world. But what if Shanny feels differenly? Conversely, if Shanny is in love with one of these guys pull the trigger.

[Skinsinparadise]

no one knows anything about the QBs coming out until they take some NFL snaps. a franchise QB is just a slang term for "an awesome QB". we wont know until we try.

we could draft sam bradford, and he could be the worst QB in NFL history. he could be better than peyton manning. we have absolutely no clue until we try him. same goes for anyone coming out of college.

we need to TRY to get a QB in the draft and SEE if he can play well.

If this was true, Scott Campbell, Shanny etc shouldn't bother reviewing tape -- becuase tape will give them no idea about the future. The drill is suck it up, draft that guy, and see if it works, its as simple as that?

If your point is there is no such thing as a sure bet, of course. But the scouts get paid to make educated guesses at EVERY position. If their educated guess is Bradford is a bust, don't draft him, if their educated guess is he will make it, draft him.

Just because there are no absolutes IMO doesn't mean you stop making educated guesses and relying on them.

[wdcredskins]

I get that most JC haters think he's for the most part the ONLY problem on the team, and if you fix the position, all is right with the world. But what if Shanny feels differenly? Conversely, if Shanny is in love with one of these guys pull the trigger.

you seriously believe that? man, i've heard it all now. Homers actually think that when we knock god awful jason candle, it means that candle is the ONLY problem. LOL

how do you debate with someone that thinks like that?

[earl]

the offense is much much more then just JC. so are its failings. is it JC's fault we can't run the ball effectively? No run game, no Oline, bad play calls and no audibles, furthermore no time for audibles, because the play comes in late due to the play calling by committee. But some how it all falls on JC? rrrriiight......

That said fixing the OL also fixes the run game, and both working in harmony should help out the QB. until then i dont' think you can evaluate anyone on the offense. not the WR's, not the RB's not even the playcalling.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

Everyone who blames the offensive line for our failure is wrong. Anyone who watches professional football knows that good quarterbacks come up to the line, then they read the defense, they then direct the linemen and backs, and then they call the right play that gives them the best chance of success.

What Jason Campbell does is get out of the huddle with 6 seconds left on the play clock does not look at the secondary. He then waits until the defense is ready to give there best effort to blitz and then he takes the snap.

Campbell is a college football quarterback. Not a professional quarterback.

If you dont believe me look at Peyton, Rivers, Brees, Eli, and Romo sits to pee. They see everything before it happens. They also get rid of the ball in 2.6 seconds. Campbell has that on everythrow almost.

Collinsworth showed everyone last night the simple mistakes Campbell makes. He cant read professional defenses, heck i bet he cant read a Dr. Seuss book without pop ups.

Been saying this for 3 years. Jason's deficiencies are made a bit worse by a weak line but they aren't caused by the weak line. On his best day, he is adequate. That's it.

[frankez99]

Been saying this for 3 years. Jason's deficiencies are made a bit worse by a weak line but they aren't caused by the weak line. On his best day, he is adequate. That's it.

That pretty much sums it up.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

the offense is much much more then just JC. so are its failings. is it JC's fault we can't run the ball effectively? No run game, no Oline, bad play calls and no audibles, furthermore no time for audibles, because the play comes in late due to the play calling by committee. But some how it all falls on JC? rrrriiight......

That said fixing the OL also fixes the run game, and both working in harmony should help out the QB. until then i dont' think you can evaluate anyone on the offense. not the WR's, not the RB's not even the playcalling.

Opposing defenses have zero fear of our passing game, so they load up on a banged up, makeshift line and our overrated RB. Quick, effective QB play improves our run game and decreases the demand on our weak line. JC's deficiencies won't improve with a great o line. He'll just have an extra second to mull over his bad decision or see the guy he missed before he gets called for intentional grounding.

Its the chicken and the egg thing.

[ZoEd]

explain to me exactly what constitutes "a franchise QB". how would anyone even know if he was gonna be a franchise QB unless they drafted him and ya know....had him play football?

the fear of failure of picking QBs is staggering around here. well weve failed a few times over a 16 year period, lets just not draft a QB in the first round ever again because heath shuler sucked.

i cannot believe the chargers drafted drew brees and phillip rivers. they should have learned their lesson after taking ryan leaf. those idiots!

Then who is that guy in this years draft? If there was a guy with all the intangibles and the pedigree of a franchise guy then I'd say go for it, that guy doesn't exist in this draft IMO. Sorry, I don't think jumping on a QB because you think JC sucks is the answer, it's simply a desperation pick plain and simple.

For example, if we went back several years and Carr or Linhart was on the board at 5 I'd be salavating at the possiblity of drafting either of them with their credentials from college. I mean a the time who would have thought they'd suck or at least be mediocre? There's less hype about all of the QB's coming out this year and none of them have lit anything up except Tebow and I'm terrified of him under center in the NFL.

As usual you're allowing your hatred of Campbell send you over the edge half ****ed without even reading and COMPREHENDING the post. Never did I say don't pick a QB in the first round. I said none of the QB's coming out this year are worthy of that pick and we shouldn't take a QB for the sake of taking one just because you and all your little Jason hating cronies hate his ass. He sucks, got it. Where does that equate into run out and draft the second highest rated QB since the first will be gone to the Rams and pray to God he doesn't suck?

[Redskinloyal_17]

Lol everyone who is saying campbell is good and its his line and other faults.

LETS LOOK AT THE ONLY STAT THAT MATTERS 4 WINS. HE WINS LESS THAN 30 PERCENT OF THE GAMES HE STARTS.

WHAT IS SO FUNNY IS THAT I THINK BRUNELL IS BETTER. WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU ABOUT CAMPBELL!!

BUT YOURE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ON ONE THING ITS THE COACHES FAULT. ZORN MADE US LIVE WITH CAMPBELL SO HE WILL BE FIRED FOR HIS INCOMPETENCE.

[#98QBKiller]

There should also be a sticky that says "taking a QB in the first round just for the sake of taking one is stupid and a wasted pick, especially if there isn't a "franchise" QB availible in this years draft".

JC sucking behind a decimated offensive line does not equal drafting a guy who doesn't blow your socks off with his abilities just because JC sucks. It makes more sense to bring in a veteran FA, starting Brennan, bringing back Daniels or getting a guy in the lower rounds than it does reaching for a guy with so many questions.

I think the correct answer is allowing a GM with actual FOOTBALL knowledge make a decision on what the teams most glaring need is.

So how do you measure who's a franchise QB and who isn't? According to draft experts, both Jimmy Clausen and Sam Bradford are franchise-caliber QBs, well worth a first-round pick.

It's amazing how many people think that a first-round offensive lineman can't be a bust. You have to look no further than our own Mike Williams to see that offensive linemen bust just as well.

[darrelgreenie]

Originally Posted by mi6

As someone said on the Al Gauldi show, on the radio show after the game, even Jason's college coach thought Jason would not make it far in the NFL. He called Jason a good practice QB for the SEC!

Enough said. JC is a horrible NFL QB.

Wow i'm sure that's an accurate source.

Um someone said on this show that um Jason's coach said that JC wouldn't make it far in the NFL,........................yeah right

Yeah JC undefeated season at Auburn SEC player of the year

wow, his one good college season in 2004, lets hold on to that one.

surely ronnie brown and cadillac williams werent the main factors on that team. its not like they were both top 5 picks in the NFL draft.

oh wait....

Troll much?

Don't pretend to respond to my post when its not directed at you; especially when all you do is beg the issue with strawman BS.

The dude said that someone on a radio show said that Campbell's coach said that he wouldn't amount to much.

I was pointing out that since Campbell went undefeated and was the SEC player of the year i think its highly unlikely that his coach made that statement and its crazy for the poster to quote some guy he heard on the radio as a source.

But it probably makes perfect sense in your all-hate-JC world.

HTTR!

Do me a favor?

Don't respond to any of my posts unless i direct it in your direction.