Quit Blaming the Offensive line!!

[frankez99]

i supported ramsey until enough was enough. i supported boonell until it enough was enough. i supprted candle until enough is enough. and lets face it, this guy candle has had more chances. 5th yr qb with over 50 starts.

hard to undertsand? dont matter if he is a redskins or not. if you suck, u suck. i aint going to support a player that sucks at what he does and gets paid underserving millions. that's like stealing money pal. but u keep supporting him. delusional this guy is.

Honest question (not a veiled insult):

Is your keyboard missing keys?

[Bang]

Bad OL, lack of audibles, no hot reads... now I won't sit here and say JC is a decent QB, but when we're all fired up to just lay it all at his feet, the fact that he is barely allowed to play the quarterback position should be taken into account.

I can't possibly believe that he's too stupid to read a blitz, I can't buy into him being so dumb as to not know when or how to audible to a better play.

He stares down receivers, and based on all the other things he's not allowed to do, I'd have to wonder if they even allow hiom to look off of who he's supposed to throw it to.

When you see DBs ignore double moves like they do on our receivers, it's because the playbook is so vanilla that every DB knows the routes. We offer so little in the way of subterfuge or misdirection that anyone can see exactly what we're going to do by watching a little film.

So, while Jason does have his problems, it would be nice if we'd also realize he's got his hands tied behind his back by his coaches. We see him run the 2 minute offense, and it's usually the only time in most of our games when the offense actually moves. So we know he CAN read and call plays that will work in a given situation.

But, as Collinsworth showed him missing an easy blitz read on Sunday night, is it because he really missed it, or is it because that he's locked into a play and can't do anything about it it anyway?

~Bang

[wdcredskins]

I posted this on the other JC thread but it belongs here:

How the crap does the inability to pre snap read an defense, to deliver on a 3 step drop or to find a hot route HAVE ANYTHING to do with our Offensive Line.

Our current QB takes 7 second to recognize ANYTHING. He is like Big Ben, without the moxy or the accuracy. Just a big slow reacting target back there touching the ball EVERY play. Jason Candle would make any OL look HORRIBLE.

Did you hear Collinsworth railing on the 3 step drop and deliver last game? 50 starts and JC doesnt know that in a 3 step drop you either deliver or throw it away? Guess what another SACK and Fumble! Man our O line sucks so MUCH!

50 STARTS PEOPLE. NOTHING TO SEE HERE. MOVE ALONG.

Aaron rogers has been sacked almost 20 more times that Campbell this season. Shows you what a NFL caliber starting QB can do with a crap line in front of him. We dont have a NFL caliber starting QB.

after the 3 step drop, he pump faked. LOL did u see that?

[laxpck]

Bad OL, lack of audibles, no hot reads... now I won't sit here and say JC is a decent QB, but when we're all fired up to just lay it all at his feet, the fact that he is barely allowed to play the quarterback position should be taken into account.

I can't possibly believe that he's too stupid to read a blitz, I can't buy into him being so dumb as to not know when or how to audible to a better play.

He stares down receivers, and based on all the other things he's not allowed to do, I'd have to wonder if they even allow hiom to look off of who he's supposed to throw it to.

When you see DBs ignore double moves like they do on our receivers, it's because the playbook is so vanilla that every DB knows the routes. We offer so little in the way of subterfuge or misdirection that anyone can see exactly what we're going to do by watching a little film.

So, while Jason does have his problems, it would be nice if we'd also realize he's got his hands tied behind his back by his coaches. We see him run the 2 minute offense, and it's usually the only time in most of our games when the offense actually moves. So we know he CAN read and call plays that will work in a given situation.

But, as Collinsworth showed him missing an easy blitz read on Sunday night, is it because he really missed it, or is it because that he's locked into a play and can't do anything about it it anyway?

~Bang

Its a good point Bang. However maybe its vanilla cause he cant succeed in Anything more complicated. Its hard for me to think he has had his hands tied for 50 starts under 4 OC's.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Bad OL, lack of audibles, no hot reads... now I won't sit here and say JC is a decent QB, but when we're all fired up to just lay it all at his feet, the fact that he is barely allowed to play the quarterback position should be taken into account.

I can't possibly believe that he's too stupid to read a blitz, I can't buy into him being so dumb as to not know when or how to audible to a better play.

He stares down receivers, and based on all the other things he's not allowed to do, I'd have to wonder if they even allow hiom to look off of who he's supposed to throw it to.

When you see DBs ignore double moves like they do on our receivers, it's because the playbook is so vanilla that every DB knows the routes. We offer so little in the way of subterfuge or misdirection that anyone can see exactly what we're going to do by watching a little film.

So, while Jason does have his problems, it would be nice if we'd also realize he's got his hands tied behind his back by his coaches. We see him run the 2 minute offense, and it's usually the only time in most of our games when the offense actually moves. So we know he CAN read and call plays that will work in a given situation.

But, as Collinsworth showed him missing an easy blitz read on Sunday night, is it because he really missed it, or is it because that he's locked into a play and can't do anything about it it anyway?

~Bang

bang, ive asked this numerous times:

why would multiple head coaches and coordinators "tie his hands behind his back"? why have multiple football people not "allowed" him to play the QB position?

[laxpck]

after the 3 step drop, he pump faked. LOL did u see that?

Exactly. All the OL's fault.

For as much as I get tired of Collinsworth he ws DEAD ON in calling Candle out on that play.

FIF-TY STARTS. THe LIGHT has NOT come ON. IT is NOT GOING TO COME ON. We MUST MOVE ON.

[DMVSkins]

Our O-line looked like a rape victim by the end of the Dallas and Giants games so I would put some of the blame on them as well as every other position, coach, trainer and owner.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Exactly. All the OL's fault.

For as much as I get tired of Collinsworth he ws DEAD ON in calling Candle out on that play.

FIF-TY STARTS. THe LIGHT has NOT come ON. IT is NOT GOING TO COME ON. We MUST MOVE ON.

he just needs 32 more man. get him a better oline, better receivers, better running backs, and better playcalling, and a defense that gets a ton of turnovers, and he might win us 9 games. sounds good to me!

[Bang]

bang, ive asked this numerous times:

why would multiple head coaches and coordinators "tie his hands behind his back"? why have multiple football people not "allowed" him to play the QB position?

I have no idea why this staff does. But then again, I have no idea why this staff won't let anyone do anything outside of their script on both sides of the ball.

Early on I can see limiting what he's allowed to do, but now,,I'd say it's easy to point to Jason, with the one problem being that this entire coaching staff doesn't seem to have the slightest clue as to what they've done wrong.

If they weren't SO incompetent, I could easily agree with you. But since they are completely inept, since they've got a full on revolt of their players going on over how the staff calls games and hampers our own players... it's hard for me to ignore that.

~Bang

[ZoEd]

what is it with you homers with your stats? we try to tell u homers that stats dont tell the whole story and that u have to dissect it.

then when we bring up a stat about Ben and arron rodger's sack stat and u homers immeidately dismiss it talking about those stats are missleading....etc

totally clueless homers. LOL

Hey brother, why don't you curb the "homers" comments down a little bit and quit attacking people. Attack the post and quit calling everyone in every post that disagrees with you a homer. I mean, I think most of your posts makes you look like an idiot but I don't call you idiot when I quote you.

Also, if you want to respond to multiple posts there's a nifty little trick you can use where you copy and paste the text you want to quote, put the an = then the posters name after the first quote (=wdcredskins) and viola, you've quoted that person in the same post as someone else so we don't have to hear the same tired ass jason candle, homer, jason candle, homer bull**** every other post. Just quote a bunch of **** at once and put jason candle homer so we can all move along.

[laxpck]

he just needs 32 more man. get him a better oline, better receivers, better running backs, and better playcalling, and a defense that gets a ton of turnovers, and he might win us 9 games. sounds good to me!

How about if we bring Elway and Aikman in as Quarterback Coaches????

Maybe they can make him realize that he is a starting NFL QB. Maybe campbell would be good in the wildcat split wide. I bet he can throw a HELL of a block at 240+.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I have no idea why this staff does. But then again, I have no idea why this staff won't let anyone do anything outside of their script on both sides of the ball.

Early on I can see limiting what he's allowed to do, but now,,I'd say it's easy to point to Jason, with the one problem being that this entire coaching staff doesn't seem to have the slightest clue as to what they've done wrong.

If they weren't SO incompetent, I could easily agree with you. But since they are completely inept, since they've got a full on revolt of their players going on over how the staff calls games and hampers our own players... it's hard for me to ignore that.

~Bang

didnt gibbs and saunders do the same thing though? im assuming you dont think they were "so incompetent" as well. how many articles did we all read about "taking the training wheels off" for campbell back then with those two? countless if i remember correctly.

youd have a point if it was just zorn, but this has been a trend with now 3 playercallers all doing the same thing. the one constant is campbell.

[laxpck]

I have no idea why this staff does. But then again, I have no idea why this staff won't let anyone do anything outside of their script on both sides of the ball.

Early on I can see limiting what he's allowed to do, but now,,I'd say it's easy to point to Jason, with the one problem being that this entire coaching staff doesn't seem to have the slightest clue as to what they've done wrong.

If they weren't SO incompetent, I could easily agree with you. But since they are completely inept, since they've got a full on revolt of their players going on over how the staff calls games and hampers our own players... it's hard for me to ignore that.

~Bang

The true problem started when SOMEONE decided to match Candle to the WEST COAST OFFENSE.....HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Cough* VINNY*Cough

Seriously though, like I posted somewhere else....I trust our GM willl do the right thing about our QB position.

How great is it to say THAT for the first time in a decade?

[BoRnAndRaiSedSkinsFan]

and the best part is, candle homers dont know what to make of this which is sad. their point is, collins still gets hit, end of story. but no, it aint the end of story. they dont see the most important aspect of it which they ignore totally. and that is, while having the same oline, collins unlike candle makes play which is the only thing anyone should be concentrating on even if he gets hit after he releases the ball.

one is a play maker and the other one is just a bad QB. they talk about noone can make plays or survive with this oline and collins , a 40 yr old career backup comes in and debunks that theory instantly making the offense 100x better. and some whacked candle homers talking about peyton , brady... cant survive with thsi line....

So Collins came in that KC and made plays all over the field? He made 1 nice pass down the field and then......... He's a great playmaker.

The Giants game he came in and made 1 nice pass into their territory. And then he went 3 and out from there. Instead of going for it on 4th down, the coaches felt the better option was swinging gate?

Campbell has not played great this year. He's been about average. No way does Collins playing significantly change the outcome of games for us. Ben and Rogers do play very well while being sacked more this year. They also get to throw to Santonio Holmes, Hines Ward, Greg Jenings, and Donald Driver. They also have a competent run game to keep defenses honest. They also have 2 of the most stable organizations backing them.

Campbell is not on their level sure. But you put them into our organization, with our systems, receivers, and running game and no way they do what they do for their teams. We can't run 7 step drops! Some games we can't run 3 step drops! No one bites on our play action!

To say stop blaming the offensive line is ridiculous. We have guys who wouldn't be in the NFL if they weren't on our team "protecting" our QB and trying to open run lanes. Any QB other than Big Ben and JC would have probably been out with injury about now. I couldn't find the stats, but I'd like to take other things into consideration. I'd like to see a mix of sacks, hits, and QB pressures and see how other QBs compare to ours. Sacks don't tell the whole story.

[laxpck]

Campbell has not played great this year. He's been about average. Ben and Rogers do play very well while being sacked more this year. They also get to throw to Santonio Holmes, Hines Ward, Greg Jenings, and Donald Driver. They also have a competent run game to keep defenses honest.

Sacks don't tell the whole story.

Aaron Rogers = Your argument CRUSHER. His OFFENSIVE LINE IS TERRIBLE. TERRIBLE TERRIBLE. Ryan Grant = Competant?

He would come here and be like WOW, look at the time I have to make a split second decision. Meanwhile JC goes there and GETS KILLLLLLLED. Big Bens O line troubles are exascerbated by the fact he holds the ball for too long. The diff is that when he does get rid of it its accurate.

BTW your last line makes it sound like you are VINNY.

[frankez99]

Aaron Rogers = Your argument CRUSHER. His OFFENSIVE LINE IS TERRIBLE. TERRIBLE TERRIBLE. Ryan Grant = Competant?

He would come here and be like WOW, look at the time I have to make a split second decision. Meanwhile JC goes there and GETS KILLLLLLLED.

Ummmm.....Ryan Grant has 1200+ yards and 10+ TDs; the 8th leading rusher in the NFL......?????

[laxpck]

Ummmm.....Ryan Grant has 1200+ yards and 10+ TDs; the 8th leading rusher in the NFL......?????

Umm Ryan Grant is successville because people RESPECT Aaron Rogers. He NEVER see's 8,9 or 10 in the box. To think he can carry a team by himself is redic....there are only like 3 current RB's out there who succeed despite a inept line in front of them and no real QB.

Stephen Jackson

Frank Gore

Jerome Harrison

Ryan Grant is NOT the RB that they are. But the running game is NOT the point of this thread. The O line is.

Green bay's O line is statistically worse than ours and they are currently 9-7 and headed for the playoffs. One reason behind that.....a NFL starting Caliber QB. What a difference ONE position in the draft makes!

But here is what you are asking about

Redskins #6th worst in Giving up Sacks

Rk Team Exp Att Yds Avg TDs 1st Neg +10Y Pwr 1st Neg +10Y Pwr 1st Neg +10Y Pwr Sacks QB Hits

1 Green Bay Packers 407 404 1,776 4.4 18 37 17 15 71 12 3 5 75 45 12 19 70 50 91

2 Pittsburgh Steelers 252 392 1,591 4.1 10 27 13 17 63 16 7 2 87 44 19 22 57 47 71

3 Buffalo Bills 88 382 1,619 4.2 6 17 16 9 40 22 6 6 67 30 14 19 43 46 102

4 Oakland Raiders 271 390 1,650 4.2 7 29 12 19 75 20 5 7 100 28 12 15 50 46 89

5 Kansas City Chiefs 362 403 1,612 4.0 5 25 14 16 55 22 16 8 55 32 19 18 86 45 83

6 Washington Redskins 388 370 1,444 3.9 8 23 13 13 64 21 3 7 70 23 11 15 50 44 90

#5th worst in QB hits currently

1 Jacksonville Jaguars 291 423 1,898 4.5 19 29 3 17 88 62 24 21 69 17 6 8 50 41 117

2 Buffalo Bills 88 382 1,619 4.2 6 17 16 9 40 22 6 6 67 30 14 19 43 46 102

3 Green Bay Packers 407 404 1,776 4.4 18 37 17 15 71 12 3 5 75 45 12 19 70 50 91

4 Detroit Lions 346 384 1,516 3.9 9 31 16 19 54 11 13 3 71 35 23 20 60 41 90

5 Washington Redskins 388 370 1,444 3.9 8 23 13 13 64 21 3 7 70 23 11 15 50 44 90

Green Bay OL is statistically worse in BOTH categories.

[BoRnAndRaiSedSkinsFan]

Umm Ryan Grant is successville because people RESPECT Aaron Rogers. He NEVER see's 8,9 or 10 in the box. To think he can carry a team by himself is redic....there are only 5 RB's out there who succeed despite a inept line in front of them.

Ummmm inept offensive line in pass blocking does not always equal inept in run blocking.

[frankez99]

Umm Ryan Grant is successville because people RESPECT Aaron Rogers. He NEVER see's 8,9 or 10 in the box. To think he can carry a team by himself is redic....there are only 5 RB's out there who succeed despite a inept line in front of them.

"Successville"? Is this a geography lesson? j/k

And don't sell Ryan Grant short; he broke a 60 yarder this year on a 4th and 1, with guess what, 8, 9, or 10 in the box......so never say NEVER.

[grego]

"Successville"? Is this a geography lesson?

And don't sell Ryan Grant short; he broke a 60 yarder this year on a 4th and 1, with guess what, 8, 9, or 10 in the box......so never say NEVER.

correct. GB's o line is highly ranked in rushing- one of the best in the league in short yardage.

nobodys going to argue a good running game doesnt help a QB- at least i would hope not.

rodgers is absolutely more nimble and better than campbell. nobody diputes this either.

rodgers D currently is #1 in the NFL in INT's, giving him more opportunities to score.

a very good running game, nimble QB and great D= formula for good QB #'s.

[Bang]

didnt gibbs and saunders do the same thing though? im assuming you dont think they were "so incompetent" as well. how many articles did we all read about "taking the training wheels off" for campbell back then with those two? countless if i remember correctly.

youd have a point if it was just zorn, but this has been a trend with now 3 playercallers all doing the same thing. the one constant is campbell.

Well, I think experience plays into that question. The leash on a first and second year starter are decidedly different than what is usually applied to a 3rd and 4th year starter.

Like I said, I have no idea why this staff ties him so tightly. I'd say that if they had shown themselves to be a competent staff, the answer would be clearer. But since they're not, it's hard to say why they do anything.

~Bang

[laxpck]

"Successville"? Is this a geography lesson? j/k

And don't sell Ryan Grant short; he broke a 60 yarder this year on a 4th and 1, with guess what, 8, 9, or 10 in the box......so never say NEVER.

successionville - Great Battlefield in South Carolina.

[frankez99]

successionville - Great Battlefield in South Carolina.

Thanks; but that doesn't bolster your argument that Ryan Grant isn't "competent".

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Well, I think experience plays into that question. The leash on a first and second year starter are decidedly different than what is usually applied to a 3rd and 4th year starter.

Like I said, I have no idea why this staff ties him so tightly. I'd say that if they had shown themselves to be a competent staff, the answer would be clearer. But since they're not, it's hard to say why they do anything.

~Bang

the way youre answering that just puts the argument at a standstill. youre essentially saying that gibbs/saunders were somewhat justified in "tying him down" because he was a young QB in 06/07, but zorn shouldnt have tied him down in 08/09 but because zorn was such a moron he refused to loosen the grip.

i think all the coaches knew he had massive limitations and didnt wanna overwhelm a dummy QB, so they dumbed it down big time in order to minimize mistakes from him. i really dont think theres much else to it, but to each his own.

[Dead Money]

so on a 3 step drop and the qb gets crushed on his 3rd step it is his fault?

+1