Quit Blaming the Offensive line!!

[rk3025]

Allen now knows that Zorn, Lewis and Smith can not score points and Campbell is a maybe backup but no starter!

Blame the coaches for not allowing any audible during any play call

[Dallsux]

a new version of "stop the excuses"

10 different OL combination, 7 RG alone

our starting RB is a practice squad reject from the Titans

We lost Portis, Betts, Samuels, Randy Thomas, Cooley, and an improving Devan Thomas missed last night.

A lame duck coach.....

but it's all Campbell's fault :thumbsup:

This.

[TheItalianStallion]

look @ Romo sits to pee yesterday... he was hurried a lot, what did he do? he stepped up in the pocket, he moved his shoulder, he got the ball out fast.. all to avoid getting sacked...

That description is more applicable to JC than it is to Romo sits to pee, and JC was hurried MUCH more than Romo sits to pee.

[rdskns56fan]

Opposing defenses have zero fear of our passing game, so they load up on a banged up, makeshift line and our overrated RB. Quick, effective QB play improves our run game and decreases the demand on our weak line. JC's deficiencies won't improve with a great o line. He'll just have an extra second to mull over his bad decision or see the guy he missed before he gets called for intentional grounding.

Its the chicken and the egg thing.

This is easily turned around...if we had a decent oline and run game the passing game would be lights out...it all starts up front...

[TheItalianStallion]

exactly. simple as that. if you aint blind, you clearly see this. it's not even debatable. that is why it is useless to upgrade oline and waste good protection on jason candle because even when he has time, he is so bad.

He's had good protection in 5 games this season: @ NYG, STL, Detroit, Denver, NO. In those 5 games he was a combined 116/170 (68%) for 1,353 yards (270.6 ypg), 8 ypa, 7 TD, 3 INT, 98.4 rating.

So much for not being debatable.

[TheItalianStallion]

Opposing defenses have zero fear of our passing game, so they load up on a banged up, makeshift line and our overrated RB. Quick, effective QB play improves our run game and decreases the demand on our weak line. JC's deficiencies won't improve with a great o line. He'll just have an extra second to mull over his bad decision or see the guy he missed before he gets called for intentional grounding.

1) His decision making was fine; with the exception of 2, maybe 3 plays, he made good reads. and got rid of the ball quickly. The problem was his accuracy, or lack thereof.

2) See my previous post.

[Dallsux]

Lol everyone who is saying campbell is good and its his line and other faults.

LETS LOOK AT THE ONLY STAT THAT MATTERS 4 WINS. HE WINS LESS THAN 30 PERCENT OF THE GAMES HE STARTS.

WHAT IS SO FUNNY IS THAT I THINK BRUNELL IS BETTER. WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU ABOUT CAMPBELL!!

BUT YOURE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ON ONE THING ITS THE COACHES FAULT. ZORN MADE US LIVE WITH CAMPBELL SO HE WILL BE FIRED FOR HIS INCOMPETENCE.

Ok. You can stop shouting now.

Collins got one pass off against the Giants. One & that was basically because he was a different pace from Campbell. The very next 2 passing plays, he was crushed as he threw the ball the one time & sacked the next. And it wasn't even close. Collins was surrounded before he could even think about his reads, muchless get the ball off. But he would do better in this offense. Ok.

Brunell is 80 years old & his career has been reduced to a Holder. Brunell didn't have to play behind this OL. And I could hazard a guess that NO QB in the League would want to step foot in our backfield. No, not even once.

I think people are so against Campbell that they can't see past their own hate to see the good things that he does & think that anybody else could step into his shoes & do his job better.

Look at the Super Bowl years, Dude. The years where someone like Joe Theismann could win a Super Bowl. He spent 7 years on the bench behind Billy Kilmer & Sonny Jurgenson before ever getting a regular start. Doug Williams was a back-up who had spent most of his career peeling himself off the turf in Tampa Bay. Mark Rypien wasn't anything special either, but also has a ring for us. But what did all these QBs have in common? The Hogs. A HOF quality Offensive Line. NONE of those QBs could do anything anywhere else, but here, under Gibbs & behind the Hogs, they were Champions.

AND none of these QBs had to carry the team, like so many seem to expect Campbell to do. The Offensive Line & a great running game did. The most popular picture in Redskins history? It's not a passing play, like Eli to Tyree. It's a running play, a 4th & 1, that goes for a TD.

Theismann didn't have to carry that team, so why does Campbell have to carry this one? Why is Campbell held to seemingly a higher standard than a guy we regard as a Redskins Legend & the Offensive Line let off the hook?

[TheItalianStallion]

Aaron Rogers = Your argument CRUSHER. His OFFENSIVE LINE IS TERRIBLE. TERRIBLE TERRIBLE. Ryan Grant = Competant?

He would come here and be like WOW, look at the time I have to make a split second decision. Meanwhile JC goes there and GETS KILLLLLLLED. Big Bens O line troubles are exascerbated by the fact he holds the ball for too long. The diff is that when he does get rid of it its accurate.

Rodgers' Oline is much better than ours. All of the sacks he took against Minny were his fault due to him holding onto the ball too long, a la Ben. Rodgers' protection in recent weeks has been GREAT.

[TheItalianStallion]

Ok. You can stop shouting now.

Collins got one pass off against the Giants. One & that was basically because he was a different pace from Campbell. The very next 2 passing plays, he was crushed as he threw the ball the one time & sacked the next. And it wasn't even close. Collins was surrounded before he could even think about his reads, muchless get the ball off. But he would do better in this offense. Ok.

And not to mention that Collins had GREAT protection on that play, and on his long pass to Moss against KC.

[TheItalianStallion]

you seriously believe that? man, i've heard it all now. Homers actually think that when we knock god awful jason candle, it means that candle is the ONLY problem. LOL

how do you debate with someone that thinks like that?

How do you debate with someone who can't write a coherant sentence?

[Mooka]

Collins got one pass off against the Giants. One & that was basically because he was a different pace from Campbell. The very next 2 passing plays, he was crushed as he threw the ball the one time & sacked the next. And it wasn't even close. Collins was surrounded before he could even think about his reads, muchless get the ball off. But he would do better in this offense. Ok.

This is way off.

He was crushed on the next play, but managed to throw the ball away and avoid the sack. Jason had a grounding penalty on the previous series.

And on the next play he threw a perfect pass to Fred Davis down the field that was dropped.

He was never sacked.

Theismann didn't have to carry that team, so why does Campbell have to carry this one? Why is Campbell held to seemingly a higher standard than a guy we regard as a Redskins Legend & the Offensive Line let off the hook?

Because those QBs won. Its not that complicated.

Even after the SB, the second Rypein showed something we benched Williams. And the second Rypein had some problems we drafted Shuler.

[Jeeb]

Ok. You can stop shouting now.

Collins got one pass off against the Giants. One & that was basically because he was a different pace from Campbell. The very next 2 passing plays, he was crushed as he threw the ball the one time & sacked the next. And it wasn't even close. Collins was surrounded before he could even think about his reads, muchless get the ball off. But he would do better in this offense. Ok.

Brunell is 80 years old & his career has been reduced to a Holder. Brunell didn't have to play behind this OL. And I could hazard a guess that NO QB in the League would want to step foot in our backfield. No, not even once.

I think people are so against Campbell that they can't see past their own hate to see the good things that he does & think that anybody else could step into his shoes & do his job better.

Look at the Super Bowl years, Dude. The years where someone like Joe Theismann could win a Super Bowl. He spent 7 years on the bench behind Billy Kilmer & Sonny Jurgenson before ever getting a regular start. Doug Williams was a back-up who had spent most of his career peeling himself off the turf in Tampa Bay. Mark Rypien wasn't anything special either, but also has a ring for us. But what did all these QBs have in common? The Hogs. A HOF quality Offensive Line. NONE of those QBs could do anything anywhere else, but here, under Gibbs & behind the Hogs, they were Champions.

AND none of these QBs had to carry the team, like so many seem to expect Campbell to do. The Offensive Line & a great running game did. The most popular picture in Redskins history? It's not a passing play, like Eli to Tyree. It's a running play, a 4th & 1, that goes for a TD.

Theismann didn't have to carry that team, so why does Campbell have to carry this one? Why is Campbell held to seemingly a higher standard than a guy we regard as a Redskins Legend & the Offensive Line let off the hook?

this, i constantly have a friend who's only logic behind hating Campbell is "he's not a redskins quarterback." I asked him one day to define that and got no answer.

[Koolblue13]

Just the whinny nature of the thread title, is enough to guarantee a failed thread, with people shouting opinion and very little facts.

The Oline, the Coaching and the QB are areas that need an upgrade.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

This is easily turned around...if we had a decent oline and run game the passing game would be lights out...it all starts up front...

No, it wouldn't be lights out because JC's deficiencies still exist. He can only be so good. Adequate on his best day.

[Dallsux]

This is way off.

He was crushed on the next play, but managed to throw the ball away and avoid the sack.

And on the next play he threw a perfect pass to Fred Davis down the field that was dropped.

He was never sacked.

Are you really that blind? You just gave 2 reasons why Campbell isn't as bad as some of you claim. Todd Collins, who isn't half the scrambler JC is, gets crushed once AND a receiver drops a pass on 2 of the 3 plays he's on the field...but it's Campbell's fault this offense is so bad. :doh: You're right.

Because those QBs won. Its not that complicated.

:doh: great argument.

Even after the SB, the second Rypein showed something we benched Williams. And the second Rypein had some problems we drafted Shuler.

Oooookay...? What is your point? That we haven't had a descent QB since Jurgenson & it's all Campbell's fault? :whoknows:

[Mooka]

Are you really that blind? You just gave 2 reasons why Campbell isn't as bad as some of you claim. Todd Collins, who isn't half the scrambler JC is, gets crushed once AND a receiver drops a pass on 2 of the 3 plays he's on the field...but it's Campbell's fault this offense is so bad. :doh: You're right.

Sorry for correcting you.

Oooookay...? What is your point? That we haven't had a descent QB since Jurgenson & it's all Campbell's fault? :whoknows:

My point is that Campbell is not held to a higher standard then those guys.

When the team was losing all those QB's were replaced. Immediately in the case of Williams and Rypien.

[ZoEd]

So how do you measure who's a franchise QB and who isn't? According to draft experts, both Jimmy Clausen and Sam Bradford are franchise-caliber QBs, well worth a first-round pick.

It's amazing how many people think that a first-round offensive lineman can't be a bust. You have to look no further than our own Mike Williams to see that offensive linemen bust just as well.

Clausen and Bradford, really?

http://walterfootball.com/draft2010QB.php

http://newnfldraft.com/

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/2010/2010-nfl-mock-draft.cfm?writer=19

http://mobile.turfshowtimes.com/2009/12/8/1191546/mel-kiper-jrs-top-five-2010-nfl

That's a quick google search. Still have yet to find a draft expert saying franchise, NFL ready, ready to lead an NFL team. I read MOST ready, best leader of THIS draft class, best prospect of THIS class of QB's, yada, yada, yada. I read more questions about both prospects than answers. Are they going to be good? Possibly, but are they good enough for a #5 pick?

Now, what I want you to point out to me is where I EVER said we should take an OL at #5. Cue jeopardy music. BUZZ! That would be "when is NEVER Alex". I've never, ever said take an OL at #5. What I've said over and over again is, take the BPA at number 5 no matter what position it is. The only position I would hesitate taking would be WR but there are none rated in the top 10 from what I've seen so that shouldn't be an issue.

So, whomever the Coach is and the new GM should be looking at it like this.

Do we need another big DT and can we pass on a guy like Suh if he's there? Yes and no respectively.

Could we use an OT if Okung is there. Yes

Could we use a rare talent in the secondary like Berry? Duh, the guy is being compared to Ed Reed. Don't see any of the 2010 QB's being compared to Peyton Manning or Tom Brady so a safety being compared to arguably the best player in the game at that position would be hard to pass on.

Do I need to go on?

If there is a better player on the board at #5 than any of the QB prospects then you take that player. You don't take a QB that high just because JC sucks. That's a desperation move and I'm hoping the new regime isn't like the last and trades away a bunch of picks to reach for a guy who isn't even rated in the top ten. Most draft boards don't even have a QB in the top ten PROSPECTS. Of course they have some being taken in the top 10 because there are teams that need QB's but that doesn't make them worthy of a top ten pick.

All of this being said, if whomever the new coach is, thinks that his future franchise QB is Sam Bradford or Clausen then I say draft him, especially if it's Shanny. If there's an availible coach out there with the credentials to choose a QB it's Mike Shannahan. If he's our coach and doesn't take one of these guys it should tell you something.

[CommanderDOOM]

I just hope all the other teams still think JC can be a good QB.

[Dallsux]

My point is that Campbell is not held to a higher standard then those guys.

When the team was losing all those QB's were replaced. Immediately in the case of Williams and Rypien.

And the second Rypein had some problems we drafted Shuler.

And Shuler...Heath Shuler was your "Go To" argument for replacing a "failing" starting QB with a "Better" BACK-UP QB?

EDIT: Despite your beliefs & clear disdain for Campbell, he is the best option we have on this team.

[Mooka]

And Shuler...Heath Shuler was your "Go To" argument for replacing a "failing" starting QB with a "Better" BACK-UP QB?

EDIT: Despite your beliefs & clear disdain for Campbell, he is the best option we have on this team.

I haven't even said anything about Jason.

Your claim that he is held to a higher standard is false. All those QB's were replaced when the team was not winning.

[Dallsux]

Your claim that he is held to a higher standard is false. All those QB's were replaced when the team was not winning.

Not always right away, & most of the time, you could tell it was the QB, not just every other facet of the game, that was falling apart around the QB.

When you have a HOF OL & a strong running game (which is also OL), the expectations are different because EVERYONE knows what kind of talent is there to protect the QB. We know he has time, we know he has a solid running game, he just can't get it done.

When the OL is a sieve on a regular basis, allowing sacks & pressure without the opposition even blitzing, the expectation is different. Because we know that he doesn't have time to do the things that would make him a success.

Yes, we all want him to hit Moss on the numbers every time he throws the ball, but the fact remains that he rarely ever gets a chance to throw the ball without someone in his face. That's going to negatively impact anyone's game.

And to expect him to somehow overcome all this adversity & achieve the impossible by being able to escape every rush & see every wide open receiver...is putting a higher expectation on him.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

um...you must be talking about european soccer...

[Mania]

Vinny is that you??????????????????????

[MumboSauce]

Thanks for picking the top 5-6 QB's in the league and comparing them to Campbell, you're brilliant I tell ya.

True Campbell is not very good, but the Oline is atrocious as well.

[Jumbo]

what is it with you homers with your stats? we try to tell u homers that stats dont tell the whole story and that u have to dissect it.

then when we bring up a stat about Ben and arron rodger's sack stat and u homers immeidately dismiss it talking about those stats are missleading....etc

totally clueless homers. LOL

Making posts like this is one way to get a time out.

Leave out the baiting nature of the homer crap as you do it here, and you're gold.

Just the whinny nature of the thread title, is enough to guarantee a failed thread, with people shouting opinion and very little facts. The Oline, the Coaching and the QB are areas that need an upgrade.

Basically.