CNN.com / MSNBC: Shootings, multiple deaths reported at Fort Hood (MET; Merged)

[ljs]

just read that one of the victims was from my area.

http://www.khq.com/Global/story.asp?S=11459875

A Spokane native was among those killed at Fort Hood, Texas, on Thursday, a family member confirmed today.

Michael Grant Cahill, 62, was a physician assistant who worked at the base as a contracted civilian, said his daughter, Keely Cahill Vanacker.

[Perky72]

Terrible incident. Primarily for the victims of course. But this fool's actions is going to create a ton of strife from good Muslims everywhere. There IS a correlation between Islam and anti-American/anti-US soldier violence, obviously, but ignorant people are going to extend that to all Muslims, not just the radical jihadist ones.

It's also going to cause a PC backlash, with folks who are too far left refusing to acknowledge that Islam probably played a significant part in Hasan's motivations. These types might've made up many in that medical conference when he cited the Koran. They don't want to feed into general anti-Islam sentiment, so even when some nutcase is obviously dangerous they PC it away and ignore it. "hm, maybe I should notify his superior...nah correlating Islam with violence is right-wing spin!"

Not saying such an assessment would have prevented yesterday's tragedy, but I hope there's some additional emphasis placed on the importance of these evaluations and having our service members properly treated and cared for.

I wonder if pressure from "stop-loss" and such is at play in not referring cases higher up. Hasan seems to have attempted to leave the army but wasn't able to. With his display at that conference, and his actually wanting to get out himself I wonder if manpower was an issue--his case wasn't taken seriously enough because they needed to keep as many mental health workers as they could.

Considering just how traditional other cultures are in their attitudes towards women, isn't it interesting that (while it's not sanctioned in the Koran) it's Muslims who kill their wives and daughters at a much greater clip than traditional-minded Christians, Buddhists, Hindus in the West?

In the West? I recall mostly children-killing mothers being Christian, who are mentally-deranged foremost. As for people killing/suiciding their whole families and such, haven't noticed any trends.

[NavyDave]

So when blacks riding the Metro Redline wearing Obama pins, caps or tshirts call this guy a terrorist should they be labeled right wing?

Terrorist acts by followers of Islam does not mean they have to have the approval of Osama bin laden or al qaeda before acting.

It is interesting explaining how difficult it is for this guy to have Post Traumatic stress when he never deployed into either arena or that German Americans, Japanese Americans and Italian Americans did fight in wars and killed the enemy from Germany and Japan so this nonsense about Muslim soldiers not being able to kill the enemy that is also Muslim when Muslims rob, steal and kill other Muslims everyday just like Christians on Christians, Catholics on Catholics, and the godless on anybody is ridiculous.

[Heisenberg]

So when blacks riding the Metro Redline wearing Obama pins, caps or tshirts call this guy a terrorist should they be labeled right wing?

Terrorist acts by followers of Islam does not mean they have to have the approval of Osama bin laden or al qaeda before acting.

It is interesting explaining how difficult it is for this guy to have Post Traumatic stress when he never deployed into either arena or that German Americans, Japanese Americans and Italian Americans did fight in wars and killed the enemy from Germany and Japan so this nonsense about Muslim soldiers not being able to kill the enemy that is also Muslim when Muslims rob, steal and kill other Muslims everyday just like Christians on Christians, Catholics on Catholics, and the godless on anybody is ridiculous.

I think I may actually agree with this post . . . ?

[Heisenberg]

If the majority of Muslims would take a strong stance against the whack jobs this wouldn't be a issue.

Also I think that a lot of extreme traditional practices of some Muslim groups create a gray area. For example the guy that killed his daughter last week because she was becoming to Americanized.

I guess and I'm not going to derail the thread - but I know plenty of people of Muslim faith that were horrified by 9/11, this incident, and any other act of violence by Muslim extremists.

I'm not really sure how they "take a strong stance" against them - considering there are "casual" followers of the Muslim faith just like there are of other religions.

Either way, I'm looking forward to this guy getting what he has coming to him.

[SnyderShrugged]

It is interesting explaining how difficult it is for this guy to have Post Traumatic stress when he never deployed into either arena

I think he had Pre-traumatic stress disorder

[Metskins]

Turns out the shooter lived in the White Oak high rise in Silver Spring in the last few years. I've been told that Dan Snyder lived in the same building when he was growing up....

[twa]

I think he had Pre-traumatic stress disorder

Maybe he knows a good psychiatrist that could help him with that;)

Friggin shame our guys are evaluated by a loon like this

[Destino]

The only lesson here is that when a guy says publicly that those that don't convert should be beheaded, he maybe should be removed from the vicinity of authorized weapons, removed from the service and maybe we should stop pretending that certain thoughts or actions do not spring from a coherent ideology, even if they are not the mainstream of that ideology.

I agree with the first part but you were so cautious with the second that it's impossible to tell what exactly you are trying to imply.

[twa]

des perhaps this will clear it up for ya

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/199501.php

BBC: Ft Hood mosque member defends shootings: "they were troops who were going to Afghanistan and Iraq to kill Muslims. I honestly have no pity for them."

Duane : I'm not going to condemn him for what he did. I don't know why he did it. I will not, absolutely not, condemn him for what he had done though. If he had done it for selfish reasons I still will not condemn him. He's my brother in the end. I will never condemn him.

Gavin Lee : There might be a lot of people shocked to hear you say that.

Duane: Well, that's the way it is. I don't speak for the community here but me personally I will not condemn him.

Gavin Lee : What are your thoughts towards those that were victims in this?

Duane : They were, in the end, they were troops who were going to Afghanistan and Iraq to kill Muslims. I honestly have no pity for them. It's just like the majority of the people that will hear this, after five or six minutes they'll be shocked, after that they'll forget about them and go on their day.

Duane Reasoner quoted today by the New York Times:

Duane Reasoner Jr., an 18-year-old substitute teacher whose parents worked at Fort Hood, said Major Hassan was told he would be sent to Afghanistan on Nov. 28, and he did not like it.

“He said he should quit the Army,” Mr. Reasoner said. “In the Koran, you’re not supposed to have alliances with Jews or Christian or others, and if you are killed in the military fighting against Muslims, you will go to hell.”

[Jumbo]

Friggin shame our guys are evaluated by a loon like this

Agreed that it's sad whenever such professional positions are abused by personal character flaws, including those that plumb the depths of insanity or depravity.

But I think you can rest easy that the vast, vast, majority of our guys are evaluated by nothing like such a loon.

Probably less, statisically, due to relevant oversight structures, than most people seeking guidance from their minister/priest are being spiritually advised by a child molester, or people in surgery are being operated on by a functional drunk...etc.

[Toe Jam]

Documentary about the shooting is on CNN right now.

Amazing how fast they put this together.

[twa]

But I think you can rest easy that the vast, vast, majority of our guys are evaluated by nothing like such a loon.

Agreed, not casting aspirations on some good men

or your way;)

[Jumbo]

Agreed, not casting aspirations on some good men

or your way;)

Well make up your mind---"good men" or "my way"

[Jofizz]

BBC: Ft Hood mosque member defends shootings: "they were troops who were going to Afghanistan and Iraq to kill Muslims. I honestly have no pity for them."

Quotes like these make my blood boil.

[10fttall]

So now the stories are coming out about all the anti-American BS he said to, apparently, most everyone who would listen. There is something very, very wrong in a society that is so sensitive that everyone is afraid to report a man who puts down the US, praises its enemies, and rejoices when troops are killed by suicide bombers? He's in the US ARMY for God's sake! What in the hell did he think might happen if he joined the Army? Of course we can't always predict who will snap and shoot people. But shouldn't this guy be booted out of the military or at least be interviewed and investigated?

[Major Harris]

I agree with the first part but you were so cautious with the second that it's impossible to tell what exactly you are trying to imply.

i found it pretty easy.

[smitity]

So now the stories are coming out about all the anti-American BS he said to, apparently, most everyone who would listen. There is something very, very wrong in a society that is so sensitive that everyone is afraid to report a man who puts down the US, praises its enemies, and rejoices when troops are killed by suicide bombers? He's in the US ARMY for God's sake! What in the hell did he think might happen if he joined the Army? Of course we can't always predict who will snap and shoot people. But shouldn't this guy be booted out of the military or at least be interviewed and investigated?

I agree. If he had been reported, this tragedy probably would have been avoided.

But the other important part of this story is that this guy requested a discharge on more than one occasion, but they never let him out, likely because the military is already stretched so thin. Also keep in mind he joined the army in the 90s, before this "war on terror" began and anti-muslim environments in this country escalated. Had he been discharged like he wanted, his mental state may not have degenerated to the point where a shooting spree seemed like a good idea, and this tragedy could have been avoided.

I am in no way defending this guy, I hope he rots in jail. But I think we need to look seriously at the larger problems that this tragedy has brought to light.

[twa]

I agree. If he had been reported, this tragedy probably would have been avoided.

But the other important part of this story is that this guy requested a discharge on more than one occasion, but they never let him out, likely because the military is already stretched so thin. Also keep in mind he joined the army in the 90s, before this "war on terror" began and anti-muslim environments in this country escalated. Had he been discharged like he wanted, his mental state may not have degenerated to the point where a shooting spree seemed like a good idea, and this tragedy could have been avoided.

I am in no way defending this guy, I hope he rots in jail. But I think we need to look seriously at the larger problems that this tragedy has brought to light.

From my understanding he was not reported because of fear of offending sensibilities...a factor that does not exist for other groups in the military.

If he truly wanted out he could have resigned his commision,instead he wished to retain benefits.

Blaming the military ignores the TRUE culprit...himself,and is indeed defending him...as is the attempt to excuse his act by the time he enlisted.

You do not choose who or where you fight after signing on the dotted line:chair:

I certainly agree we have some large problems that need addressing and they ain't all in the military.

Putting religion before country or humanity is a recipe for disaster.

[twa]

It will be interesting to hear the rationalization for this

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fort-hood-shooter-contact-al-qaeda-terrorists-officials/story?id=9030873

U.S. intelligence agencies were aware months ago that Army Major Nidal Hasan was attempting to make contact with people associated with al Qaeda, two American officials briefed on classified material in the case told ABC News.

[GoSkins561]

Quotes like these make my blood boil.

I wonder how much this same sentiment was shared in Mosques throughout our country?

[Destino]

des perhaps this will clear it up for ya

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/199501.php

BBC: Ft Hood mosque member defends shootings: "they were troops who were going to Afghanistan and Iraq to kill Muslims. I honestly have no pity for them."

Duane : I'm not going to condemn him for what he did. I don't know why he did it. I will not, absolutely not, condemn him for what he had done though. If he had done it for selfish reasons I still will not condemn him. He's my brother in the end. I will never condemn him.

Gavin Lee : There might be a lot of people shocked to hear you say that.

Duane: Well, that's the way it is. I don't speak for the community here but me personally I will not condemn him.

Gavin Lee : What are your thoughts towards those that were victims in this?

Duane : They were, in the end, they were troops who were going to Afghanistan and Iraq to kill Muslims. I honestly have no pity for them. It's just like the majority of the people that will hear this, after five or six minutes they'll be shocked, after that they'll forget about them and go on their day.

Duane Reasoner quoted today by the New York Times:

Duane Reasoner Jr., an 18-year-old substitute teacher whose parents worked at Fort Hood, said Major Hassan was told he would be sent to Afghanistan on Nov. 28, and he did not like it.

“He said he should quit the Army,” Mr. Reasoner said. “In the Koran, you’re not supposed to have alliances with Jews or Christian or others, and if you are killed in the military fighting against Muslims, you will go to hell.”

This makes it obvious that this particular holy place needs to be looked at more closely. One nut is bad... but when the buddies hold the same crazy "they deserved it" sentiment you might have found a factory.

[DjTj]

It will be interesting to hear the rationalization for this

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fort-hood-shooter-contact-al-qaeda-terrorists-officials/story?id=9030873\

U.S. intelligence agencies were aware months ago that Army Major Nidal Hasan was attempting to make contact with people associated with al Qaeda, two American officials briefed on classified material in the case told ABC News.

Blaming the CIA ignores the TRUE culprit...himself, and is indeed defending him ... and your link has an extraneous back-slash at the end of it so it doesn't work. Here is the story:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fort-hood-shooter-contact-al-qaeda-terrorists-officials/story?id=9030873

[Madison Redskin]

I wonder how much this same sentiment was shared in Mosques throughout our country?

It's almost certainly the distinct minority, although I am guessing that you feel otherwise.

You can always find wingnuts who say stupid things, but that doesn't give you license to paint with a brush as broad as a Buick. For example, some people think illegal immigrants should be shot (see below link). There has been violence against people suspected of being illegal immigrants. But, I'm not going to say that every person who screams and yells about illegal immigration is some murdering nutjob.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/11/immigration-new-hampshire-protest/

[JMS]

Well make up your mind---"good men" or "my way"

My father was a phyciatrist here in the DC area for decades. Headed up a ward at two different area hospitals. He used to have a saying, only really smart people go nuts.

I think the Shooter here was a very brilliant guy. He went to Virginia Tech, a weeder school. He majored in Chemical Engineering; probable the hardest engineering their is. And he got the grades at Tech in Chemical engineering to attend medical school? That's crazy sucessful.

It's like carrying a refrigerator on your back and winning the Olypic sprint trials.

I have no doubt this shooting was more about the guy going nuts under the strain of his job and an unstable mind to begin wiht, and not an act of terrorism.

But make no mistake. This guy was a top notch tallent when recruited into the military. That major and getting into medical school from Virginia Tech. That's nuts. I'll bet you 2 or 3 people in 10,000 could pull that off.