Thiebear Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090929/ap_on_re_us/us_baby_sitter_backlash_mich RVING TOWNSHIP, Mich. – Each day before the school bus comes to pick up the neighborhood's children, Lisa Snyder did a favor for three of her fellow moms, welcoming their children into her home for about an hour before they left for school. Regulators who oversee child care, however, don't see it as charity. Days after the start of the new school year, Snyder received a letter from the Michigan Department of Human Services warning her that if she continued, she'd be violating a law aimed at the operators of unlicensed day care centers. "I was freaked out. I was blown away," she said. "I got on the phone immediately, called my husband, then I called all the girls" — that is, the mothers whose kids she watches — "every one of them." Snyder's predicament has led to a debate in Michigan about whether a law that says no one may care for unrelated children in their home for more than four weeks each calendar year unless they are licensed day-care providers needs to be changed. It also has irked parents who say they depend on such friendly offers to help them balance work and family. Common sense is dead.. you can't have the lady that doesnt work watch your kids for an hour so they don't get stolen or hurt... "It takes a bonded and certified village?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 baby-sitting needs a permit now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aREDSKIN Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 a law that says no one may care for unrelated children in their home for more than four weeks each calendar year Lets see now 4 weeks. Umm, that's 8-12 hour(s) work per day x 22 work days in a month that's 176 hours the State allows before needing a permit (i e money) and schools usually in sessions for 180 days per school year and she only watches them 1 hour per day. Man she has it covered!!!! F the State. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 This country is falling apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 What's she have to do to get licensed? If all she has to do is pass a background check to make sure she doesn't have a prior conviction for child abuse (and pay fifty bucks for the background check) then I'm not sure I mind. If she has to carry a million dollars of liability insurance, have a state teacher's certificate, and a college degree in child psychology, then that's another matter. Any folks in this thread got a proposal for how to write a law that allows what's going on, here, but doesn't allow Michael Jackson to open an after-school play land? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Seems kinda strange. Not sure why she needs a permit to watch the kids for an hour before school starts. Seems like Michigan is looking for money here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Id like to know how the state found out about it. What makes it officially "caretaking" and just my kids friends hanging out playing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 People who operate daycare centers, like people who operate retirement homes, should be licensed by the state. That said, people enforcing laws requiring daycare providers to obtain such licenses should exercise discretion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Id like to know how the state found out about it.What makes it officially "caretaking" and just my kids friends hanging out playing? I would assume that the fact that it's a regularly-scheduled event would be one factor in that determination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Id like to know how the state found out about it.What makes it officially "caretaking" and just my kids friends hanging out playing? From the article: Snyder learned that the agency was responding to a neighbor's complaint. My guess is that since this woman wasn't taking money for her services the state normally wouldn't care. I suspect we are only hearing one side of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted September 30, 2009 Author Share Posted September 30, 2009 The ole guy next door: "Get off my lawn"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I would assume that the fact that it's a regularly-scheduled event would be one factor in that determination. I think as long as she isnt charging for it, it's none of the states business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 The ole guy next door:"Get off my lawn"! Could be. Everyone quoted in the story suggests the law will be changed ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81artmonk Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 saw this the other day. The state is run by baffons. I guess what they say is true, "no good deed goes unpunished" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison Redskin Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 The state is run by baffons. What are baffons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpillian Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Here's a link to what's required to run a Family Child Care (1-6 unrelated children) in the state of Michigan. (http://www.michigan.gov/dhs/0,1607,7-124-5455_49572-82366--,00.html) It requires quite a few steps, but in general I agree with the requirements. Stuff like ensuring you are fit to care for children, the place where you are caring for them is fit for children, common sense stuff. Here's a summary of some of things looked at: R 400.1902 Caregiver and child care home family (1) An applicant shall meet all of the following provisions: (a) Be 18 years of age or older. ( Have a high school diploma, general educational development (GED) certificate, or equivalent. This subdivision applies only to applicants registered/licensed after the effective date of these rules. © Reside in the child care home. (d) Have proof of valid infant/child/adult cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR), first aid, and blood-borne pathogen training. (e) Attend an orientation provided by the department. (2) An applicant or the caregiver shall be of responsible character and shall be suitable and able to meet the needs of children and provide for their care, supervision, and protection. (3) All persons, including minors, residing in the child care home shall be of good moral character and be suitable to assure the welfare of children. Makes sense to me, in general. Perhaps iffy for the case mentioned. It seems like the volunteering mother is already doing a pretty big favor. Jumping through hoops to make it official might be a bit much for one hour a day. I don't really know. Probably needs to be something that is relegated to a judgement call by someone at the local level. :whoknows: What would be nice, is if this comes to the attention of a public servant who covers this particular bureaucracy (no baggage intended), that the public servant would take a particular interest in making the process as straightforward and easy for this volunteering mom as possible. I think that's the way this sort of scenario could be rescued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 What's she have to do to get licensed? If all she has to do is pass a background check to make sure she doesn't have a prior conviction for child abuse (and pay fifty bucks for the background check) then I'm not sure I mind. If she has to carry a million dollars of liability insurance, have a state teacher's certificate, and a college degree in child psychology, then that's another matter. Any folks in this thread got a proposal for how to write a law that allows what's going on, here, but doesn't allow Michael Jackson to open an after-school play land? As has been said,if she isn't being paid it is none of the state's business. Get the **** out of the parents business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 So how do they determine the character described in 2 and 3? If you have a 3 year old (minor) in the home, how do they determine he/she is not a future serial killer? Do they collect references for the minors? Do they for the adults? For #3 "All persons, including minors, ... should be suitable to assure the welfare of children." Doesn't that preclude having young children and running a daycare operation? How could a 3 year old residing in the home "assure the welfare of children"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Common sense isn't dead, decency is. Reasonable people always must pay for those who would twist decency and abuse privilege. Why are these laws in place? Is it because the lawmakers are just morons, or is it because there's so many scumbags out there? For every thousand decent people who would be a perfectly good babysitter, there's one who would start a kiddie sex club like down in Texas last year, or leave the kids unattended while they went and got their meth hit, etc etc etc. And it's those individuals who make it tougher on us all. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurrayH81 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 As others have alluded to, if she isn't charging for her help, it is none of the states business. The comment from the state worker when asked what the kids are supposed to do if the weather is inclement while they wait outside for the bus was that they needed to buy an umbrella. I think those state employees need to stand outside in the rain for an hour per day in Michigan, looking for a new job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpillian Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 So how do they determine the character described in 2 and 3? If you have a 3 year old (minor) in the home, how do they determine he/she is not a future serial killer? Do they collect references for the minors? Do they for the adults?For #3 "All persons, including minors, ... should be suitable to assure the welfare of children." Doesn't that preclude having young children and running a daycare operation? How could a 3 year old residing in the home "assure the welfare of children"? I agree it's pretty subjective. On the other hand, some subjective aspects can be a good thing. It allows the licensing agency to exercise judgement in granting and withholding a license. I'd think the possible good of allowing room for such judgement would outweigh the bad when it comes down to trying to evaluate whether a home and its caretakers will be suitable for taking in other children. I'd rather they reject 10 homes that would have been suitable, than license one that passed all the objective tests, but then proceeded to molest it's care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuraitengai Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Lets see now 4 weeks. Umm, that's 8-12 hour(s) work per day x 22 work days in a month that's 176 hours the State allows before needing a permit (i e money) and schools usually in sessions for 180 days per school year and she only watches them 1 hour per day. Man she has it covered!!!! F the State. nice...i was about to do the math myself to see how the 1 hour a day worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 As has been said,if she isn't being paid it is none of the state's business.Get the **** out of the parents business You seem to have missed my question. (I'm sure it was an accident.) I'll repeat it: Any folks in this thread got a proposal for how to write a law that allows what's going on, here, but doesn't allow Michael Jackson to open an after-school play land? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Any folks in this thread got a proposal for how to write a law that allows what's going on, here, but doesn't allow Michael Jackson to open an after-school play land? If someone is running a business of this type it should be regulated and licensed. If it's a volunteer organization (e.g. youth sports) they should do background checks that their volunteers are OK, or face liability. If it's an unpaid agreement between friends, why does anyone need to get involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I suspect we are only hearing one side of the story. This is what I suspect as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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