Mom says Patriot Act stripped son of due process

[SnyderShrugged]

A well intended law gone bad

Oxford, N.C. — Sixteen-year-old Ashton Lundeby's bedroom in his mother's Granville County home is nothing, if not patriotic. Images of American flags are everywhere – on the bed, on the floor, on the wall.

But according to the United States government, the tenth-grade home-schooler is being held on a criminal complaint that he made a bomb threat from his home on the night of Feb. 15.

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Teen's mom questions Patriot Act

The family was at a church function that night, his mother, Annette Lundeby, said.

"Undoubtedly, they were given false information, or they would not have had 12 agents in my house with a widow and two children and three cats," Lundeby said.

Around 10 p.m. on March 5, Lundeby said, armed FBI agents along with three local law enforcement officers stormed her home looking for her son. They handcuffed him and presented her with a search warrant.

"I was terrified," Lundeby's mother said. "There were guns, and I don't allow guns around my children. I don't believe in guns."

Lundeby told the officers that someone had hacked into her son's IP address and was using it to make crank calls connected through the Internet, making it look like the calls had originated from her home when they did not.

Her argument was ignored, she said. Agents seized a computer, a cell phone, gaming console, routers, bank statements and school records, according to federal search warrants.

"There were no bomb-making materials, not even a blasting cap, not even a wire," Lundeby said.

Ashton now sits in a juvenile facility in South Bend, Ind. His mother has had little access to him since his arrest. She has gone to her state representatives as well as attorneys, seeking assistance, but, she said, there is nothing she can do.

Lundeby said the USA Patriot Act stripped her son of his due process rights.

"We have no rights under the Patriot Act to even defend them, because the Patriot Act basically supersedes the Constitution," she said. "It wasn't intended to drag your barely 16-year-old, 120-pound son out in the middle of the night on a charge that we can't even defend."

Passed after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the U.S., the Patriot Act allows federal agents to investigate suspected cases of terrorism swiftly to better protect the country. In part, it gives the federal government more latitude to search telephone records, e-mails and other records.

"They're saying that 'We feel this individual is a terrorist or an enemy combatant against the United States, and we're going to suspend all of those due process rights because this person is an enemy of the United States," said Dan Boyce, a defense attorney and former U.S. attorney not connected to the Lundeby case.

Critics of the statute say it threatens the most basic of liberties.

"There's nothing a matter of public record," Boyce said "All those normal rights are just suspended in the air."

In a bi-partisan effort, Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., and Rep. Jeff Flake, R-Ariz., last month introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives a bill that would narrow subpoena power in a provision of the Patriot Act, called the National Security Letters, to curb what some consider to be abuse of power by federal law enforcement officers.

Boyce said the Patriot Act was written with good intentions, but he said he believes it has gone too far in some cases. Lundeby's might be one of them, he said.

"It very well could be a case of overreaction, where an agent leaped to certain conclusions or has made certain assumptions about this individual and about how serious the threat really is," Boyce said.

Because a federal judge issued a gag order in the case, the U.S. attorney in Indiana cannot comment on the case, nor can the FBI. The North Carolina Highway Patrol did confirm that officers assisted with the FBI operation at the Lundeby home on March 5.

"Never in my worst nightmare did I ever think that it would be my own government that I would have to protect my children from," Lundeby said. "This is the United States, and I feel like I live in a third world country now."

Lundeby said she does not think this type of case is what the Patriot Act was intended for. Boyce agrees.

"It was to protect the public, but what we need to do is to make sure there are checks and balances to make sure those new laws are not abused," he said.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/5049867

[Zguy28]

Patriot Act needs to go. NOW.

[GibbsFactor]

Yep, this is the problem with the Patriot Act. But I bet the kid is guilty.

* ducks so SS can't slap me*

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I don't think the law was ever well-intended. It was written in a panic.

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

Everyone knows that parents are teaching homeschoolers to build bombs in their basements...

[wantarace17]

i always hated this law

[Thiebear]

every day if feels more like the last administration.

[ACW]

The road to hell...

[rd421]

Dag...That is messed up...

[mjah]

Yep, this is the problem with the Patriot Act. But I bet the kid is guilty.

I bet prosecutors will agree with you. And that's what good ol' regular due process is for.

Excise the "Patriot" tumor and let the system run as it was intended to.

[IONTOP]

The road to hell...

Is paved with good intentions?

[twa]

Images of American flags are everywhere – on the bed, on the floor, on the wall.

Sounds like a mental case...I'll await more info,but tend to think there is much more to the story than Mom knows or admits

In the meantime...How about them Obamonauts and Dem congress?

I told ya

[ACW]

Is paved with good intentions?

:yes:

[jpillian]

This seems odd:

Lundeby told the officers that someone had hacked into her son's IP address and was using it to make crank calls connected through the Internet, making it look like the calls had originated from her home when they did not.

Regardless, it sounds like a grave miscarriage of justice.

[RabidFan]

How does she know what a blasting cap is? that's my question....was her first marriage to Hannibal Smith?

[Mooka]

This seems odd:

I agree. Getting someone's IP address and doing something illegal isn't really out of the norm. But doing it to crank call bomb threats is a little odd.

If they were ordering merchandise, hacking/logging into secured sites, or viewing flagged websites that would be one thing.

Most likely the kid was screwing around.

[PeterMP]

What due process was he denied?

They had a search warrant. His mother has visited him (how often can somebody suspected of "normal" crime be visited by a mother when a juvenile detention center?).

Just from the article, I don't see any evidence of anything that would have happened differenty WITHOUT the Patriot Act. There's no claim that X happened because of Y language in the Patriot Act.

[ljs]

before people start screaming about the Patriot act, there has to be more to this story.

As other posters mention above, there are things in the article that are up for speculation, like how many flags to you really need in your bedroom? (obsessed much) and how would she know if someone hacked into his computer?? The government has the evidence, and there is nothing to suggest his due process is in jepordy b/c of the Patriot act.

Remember, there are two sides to a story. Good journalism is supposed to present both sides. I only see one side in this article.

[Larry]

Agreeing that I'd really like to see a paragraph that says "My son was denied Due Process X because of PATRIOT act Clause Y", before I start yelling that this is all obviously due to PATRIOT.

(Heck, there are probably lots of unconstitutional programs and procedures that it could have been done under. )

But I'm really loving the things that people are seizing on to try to make the kid look guilty.

"That article makes it sound like he has too many American flags. Looks suspicious."

"Ooh, his Mom says he doesn't have any blasting caps. She must know more than she's saying."

[mjah]

What due process was he denied?

They had a search warrant. His mother has visited him (how often can somebody suspected of "normal" crime be visited by a mother when a juvenile detention center?).

Just from the article, I don't see any evidence of anything that would have happened differenty WITHOUT the Patriot Act. There's no claim that X happened because of Y language in the Patriot Act.

The warrant part has nothing to do with it. It's what happened after the warrant was executed.

The Patriot Act allows suspects, including US citizens, to be held in detention centers/prisons without access to family and without being afforded a trial. That's what's at issue, and that's exactly what the family is claiming.

Has he been charged? Has he not been? Apparently nobody has to comment on that, even though under non-Patriot Act due process they certainly would have to either charge him or release him. He's supposed to have that Constitutional right. But under the Patriot Act they can hold him indefinitely without charging him, and deny him reasonable access to his family.

He's an American citizen and a juvenile to boot. If he's guilty, then give him the same due process as other murderers, rapists, arsonists, etc. Hold the damned trial and then throw his ass in prison. If the case is open-and-shut enough to raid the house and keep the kid in a detention center for two months (and longer), then try him and be done with it.

What's the holdup? Is he guilty or isn't he? How long does it take to do very basic forensic examination of the evidence and either nail his ass to the wall or let him go?

Edited in light of Larry's comment: If there are other acts in addition to Patriot that allow a 16-year-old openly arrested under a legally obtained search warrant to be held indefinitely without being charged and without semi-regular family visitation rights, I'd love to learn about those acts too. That would mean there are multiple unconstitutional crutches out there acting just like Patriot.

[twa]

But I'm really loving the things that people are seizing on to try to make the kid look guilty.

"That article makes it sound like he has too many American flags. Looks suspicious."

"Ooh, his Mom says he doesn't have any blasting caps. She must know more than she's saying."

Having numerous similar symbolic objects in your bedroom does indicate a above average interest or obsession...Not that it makes him so.

Just as a mom pleading his innocence doesn't make that so either.:saber:

I'm waiting for the neighbor's testimony...He always seemed so normal;)

[Larry]

I'm waiting for the neighbor's testimony...He always seemed so normal;)

Don't forget "They were pretty quiet. Didn't cause a lot of trouble."

[WARLORD1863]

judge issued a gag order on this "case". If there is a judge assigned and if there is a case, doesn't that mean that due process is being used? It sounds to me like they're checking every nook and cranny in the kid's computer software. There's also school records, interviews with friends and relatives, and his contacts online.

He is being accused of making a threat over the internet, that means his threat has to go from his connection to someone elses. All connections have to be investigated. If he is claiming that his IP was hacked, that route needs to be investigated to exhaustion. Who hacked into his computer, how, why, and what are his intentions?

due process is a very slow process.

What I find hilarious is that some people here think that the government is doing this for fun. As if government agencies are a band of devious little kids who put time and effort into falsely holding a kid.

Let's be smarter than that.

Patriot Act has a rediculous amount of holes that need to be addressed, but there are still quite a few pieces to the act that I want to stay firmly in place.

[PeterMP]

The warrant part has nothing to do with it. It's what happened after the warrant was executed.

The Patriot Act allows suspects, including US citizens, to be held in detention centers/prisons without access to family and without being afforded a trial. That's what's at issue, and that's exactly what the family is claiming.

Has he been charged? Has he not been? Apparently nobody has to comment on that, even though under non-Patriot Act due process they certainly would have to either charge him or release him. He's supposed to have that Constitutional right. But under the Patriot Act they can hold him indefinitely without charging him, and deny him reasonable access to his family.

He's an American citizen and a juvenile to boot. If he's guilty, then give him the same due process as other murderers, rapists, arsonists, etc. Hold the damned trial and then throw his ass in prison. If the case is open-and-shut enough to raid the house and keep the kid in a detention center for two months (and longer), then try him and be done with it.

What's the holdup? Is he guilty or isn't he? How long does it take to do very basic forensic examination of the evidence and either nail his ass to the wall or let him go?

Edited in light of Larry's comment: If there are other acts in addition to Patriot that allow a 16-year-old openly arrested under a legally obtained search warrant to be held indefinitely without being charged and without semi-regular family visitation rights, I'd love to learn about those acts too. That would mean there are multiple unconstitutional crutches out there acting just like Patriot.

Well, if he's being held while not charged, and he should have been charged, then they need to state that explicitly in the article. I re-read it, and I can see where they kind of suggest it, but it certainly doesn't explicitly state that he's being held in an abnormal manner w/o being charged with a crime due to the Patriot Act.

**EDIT**

To me, this reads like a hit piece desinged to feed into people's preconceptions on the Patriot act and mothers and children.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

How does she know what a blasting cap is? that's my question....was her first marriage to Hannibal Smith?

Wait a second...how do YOU know about blasting caps? Hmmm.

(how often can somebody suspected of "normal" crime be visited by a mother when a juvenile detention center?).

In my experience once a week. Normally an assigned day on the weekend.

He's an American citizen and a juvenile to boot. If he's guilty, then give him the same due process as other murderers, rapists, arsonists, etc. Hold the damned trial and then throw his ass in prison. If the case is open-and-shut enough to raid the house and keep the kid in a detention center for two months (and longer), then try him and be done with it..

My case took over two years to complete. Two years. I've known dumb people with child support and drunk driving charges who've sat in county jail for a year before their "due process" is done. Two months is nothing. Even for a juvenile.

And yeah, I don't see the connection between this and Patriot Act outside the mother desperately searching for a way to defend her son. Almost all moms are like that the first time. Lost, heartbroken and in denial. The whole grief process thing.