Spartacus87 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 wow, when you add the seasons played, Carlos's stats are better than Lito's. Not to mention when someone puts forth the yards allowed for Rogers in 07 before he got hurt, and I'm sure he'll have good numbers for 08, he's really a pretty impressive corner.Which is why I don't understand people complaining about paying the guy. He deserves a good contract from us, people just don't want to acknowledge that because he drops some picks. You're supposed to pay your own talented, drafted guys, that's how good teams are built. Because if we don't pay Rogers what he has earned, somebody else sure will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Not to mention when someone puts forth the yards allowed for Rogers in 07 before he got hurt, and I'm sure he'll have good numbers for 08, he's really a pretty impressive corner.Which is why I don't understand people complaining about paying the guy. He deserves a good contract from us, people just don't want to acknowledge that because he drops some picks. You're supposed to pay your own talented, drafted guys, that's how good teams are built. Because if we don't pay Rogers what he has earned, somebody else sure will. I don't deny that. Especially when a guy like Rogers has proven to be a talent on the field and not a cost off the field. Those are the kind of players we need to build around. But at the same time, going back to the Norv Turner days and probably the Petibone days (forget that year), we've constantly had a good CB or set of corners, but the DL was always weak. Now in the Norv days, the defense was always ranked somewhere around 25 - 30 in the league, despite our good CB play - partially because the line couldn't stop the run. Fast forward to today and we have a good line that can stop the run, but can't pressure the passer. Are content to be satisfied with that and just try to sure up other areas (offense, special teams)? Or do we want to have a DOMINANT defense? And in particular, a DOMINANT defensive line? So I guess at base I'm asking do we want to build around what we've already got (a good secondary), or are we willing to let the secondary take a few steps back in order to move forward along the D-Line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Not to mention when someone puts forth the yards allowed for Rogers in 07 before he got hurt, and I'm sure he'll have good numbers for 08, he's really a pretty impressive corner.Which is why I don't understand people complaining about paying the guy. He deserves a good contract from us, people just don't want to acknowledge that because he drops some picks. You're supposed to pay your own talented, drafted guys, that's how good teams are built. Because if we don't pay Rogers what he has earned, somebody else sure will. I'll probably post this in a few hours when I get the time to look it up, but I'd be interested in seeing how Carlos compares to other CBs in passes defended and yards given up per reception. I remember in 2007 he was doing really well in those stats. I wonder how that looks in 2008 or over his entire career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 definitely should not trade him. of course, the way the poll is worded makes it hard to answer. trade him for a young DL? which one? justin tuck? I was honestly thinking a guy like Justin Tuck when I made the initial thread, but I didn't name him because I think there's zero chance that we actually land the guy. I mean ignoring the other reasons, NY wouldn't trade within their division. But I wonder if the Titans are looking to get rid of any of their guys. Or if there is a guy who's in a situation like Carter was in SF (A good DE playing poorly at OLB). Or what about a guy like Shaun Rodgers (not actually him, but a guy like him). In Detroit, he was called a bust and lazy, but he's starting to come into his own now. Maybe we could deal for somebody like that. I don't know every team's situation at the OLB, DE, DT, and OL, so its impossible for me to list through all the options, but if the situation presented itself, I wonder how many fans would be tempted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartacus87 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I don't deny that. Especially when a guy like Rogers has proven to be a talent on the field and not a cost off the field. Those are the kind of players we need to build around. But at the same time, going back to the Norv Turner days and probably the Petibone days (forget that year), we've constantly had a good CB or set of corners, but the DL was always weak. Now in the Norv days, the defense was always ranked somewhere around 25 - 30 in the league, despite our good CB play - partially because the line couldn't stop the run. Fast forward to today and we have a good line that can stop the run, but can't pressure the passer. Are content to be satisfied with that and just try to sure up other areas (offense, special teams)? Or do we want to have a DOMINANT defense? And in particular, a DOMINANT defensive line? So I guess at base I'm asking do we want to build around what we've already got (a good secondary), or are we willing to let the secondary take a few steps back in order to move forward along the D-Line? Agreed mostly. I think our current d-line is way too one dimensional, doesn't scare anybody who has even just mediocre pass protection, and needs some serious upgrading, mainly at the DT spot (B.J. Raji please). That being said...The thing is, to me, trading a guy like Rogers for the d-line just doesn't really benefit us that well, unless it really is a sure-fire, young d-line talent. But how many of those are out there that we can: A- get for Rogers in some kind of straight up trade B- we KNOW will come here and play for us at the same level Rogers does Rogers IS one of our most talented guys at his position. Doesn't make sense to get rid of him, when we really don't have a great way to replace him at corner. Smoot isn't nearly as good. Springs never sees the field. I'd rather just be patient and draft some d-line guys the next couple years and look for solid FAs (not necessarily starters, but cheaper, good role player kind of guys). Throwing Rogers on the trade block seems like a quick fix to me, which I don't think we should try when it's at the expense of a great young cornerback. Keep him, cut Springs/Washington/Taylor/Daniels, put all their wasted money to resigning Rogers, and you're still fine enough cap wise while looking to the draft for future talent just like Rogers/McIntosh/Horton/Landry/etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheREALJBird Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I can only hope this team doesn't get rid of Rogers, would be a horrible move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HitStickTaylor21 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I vote no, I want to cut Springs, so if you trade Rogers, and assume Hall will re-sign, then you are going into next year with Hall as your #1 and Smoot as your #2 with Tryon as your nickel, that is a complete downgrade of our strongest unit on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 If trading Rogers could get us a legitimate DT, OL, (or OLB for those who say this is our weakest spot), would you do it? What if instead of bringing us a veteran player at the suggested position, it brought us a 2nd round pick to use at the suggested position? IMO trading Rogers is 'dig a hole fill a hole' logic. The secondary was one of the strengths of the team. Getting rid of him would create a hole in the secondary that would later have to be filled. I don't think Smoot or Tryon can fill his shoes as the 3rd corner or assume starting duties when (not if) Springs gets banged up or cut. We need to keep him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinisin Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I said no but I don't think we NEED to keep him. It depends on what happens with free agency and other moves (like cuts), really. If we decide to let Springs go then I think we keep Rogers to start opposite Hall. If we don't re-sign Hall then we will need Carlos and Springs. If we don't cut Springs then maybe we can get a pick for Carlos. keep him no sense in trading him he is worth more by keeping him than getting rid of think about the cap hit also the person coming in will get that fat 10 million signing bonus that is standard with the skins on trades and free agents. Cut springs he misses at least 4to5 games each tear for some reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 This is so stupid. I don't see how anyone could want to trade someone who is turning into exactly what we saw when we drafted him. He's been playing extremely well since Week 2 of 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 IMO trading Rogers is 'dig a hole fill a hole' logic.The secondary was one of the strengths of the team. Getting rid of him would create a hole in the secondary that would later have to be filled. I don't think Smoot or Tryon can fill his shoes as the 3rd corner or assume starting duties when (not if) Springs gets banged up or cut. We need to keep him. I understand that, but the question is is the D-Line hole a more important hole than the secondary hole? How many teams were in the playoffs this year with a dominant secondary adn an average D-Line vs an dominant D-line and an average secondary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Prime Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Consider this....Lito Sheppard: age 27, career-18 INT's, 253 tackles Carlos Rogers: age 27, career-6 INT's, 206 tackles I don't think 'Los has played to his potential until earlier this year. He's been serviceable and I like him, however, I would prefer someone with more production if we have to pay the big bucks. A CB's production isn't only measured in INTs it's measured in how productive WR's are against them. And in that stat Rogers has been pretty damn good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsMaster88 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 A CB's production isn't only measured in INTs it's measured in how productive WR's are against them. And in that stat Rogers has been pretty damn good Exactly, while Rogers' hands have certainly let some poor drops that could've changed some games around, he's very rarely burned. He plays tight coverage down the field and often times can get in position to make the INT (...and then drops it). Consider that Rogers this past year had 26 passes defended, 1 away from the league lead. The same as Asante Samuel, and 1 more than Ed Reed. Add to that he's very good in run support for a CB, and still at a young age at 27, and it's pointless to let go of a guy that ends up causing another whole in our secondary. Springs' contract is about $8.5M, expires after this year, he'll be 34 and he's missed half the games 2 of the last 3 years. Who replaces Rogers then? Smoot, who turns 30, and has had some injury problems himself? Tryon, an unproven rookie...sorry 2nd year player who didn't get much playing time on defense as a rookie? We've spent so much time complaining about the young talent we let go in Pierce and Clark. There's no point making that same mistake again. We lock up Hall and Rogers (deal with Rogers' contract next year), and our secondary shouldn't be a problem for the forseeable future due to a young core of Hall, Rogers, Landry, Horton, Moore, Doughty, Tryon (hopefully). I'd much rather work out a trade down scenario in the 1st round to pick up extra picks, rather than give up an underrated veteran. As to the OL/DL needs, that's what we have to do with what we have in terms of cap space and picks in the draft and free agency. We need to rebuild our trenches, but not at the expense of other positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMeast Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 They better not trade Carlos after he had his breakout year. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan328 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Trade him,he don't wanna be here anyway!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilsu Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Trade him,he don't wanna be here anyway!!!! If we do let him go, we better get value for him instead of trading him for crap and saying, "He didn't wanna be here anyway! This was a good trade!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I can't believe how this is going here. I joined the board, because I couldn't stand the RoDgers bashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.T.real,lights,out Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 No, he showed last season he can shut down #1 WR's, and he's our most dependable and reliable DB. If we can re-sign Hall and then re-sign Rogers sometime this year, then we'll have our DB set for a good long time. Hopefully we release Springs unless he is willing to take a massive pay cut, and make Rogers our #1, and Hall our #2. Thats sums it up for me!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounds Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 As it's been stated in other 'Los threads, he is not going to settle for a mid-talent contract. The guy wants top 10 money and that's ridiculous. I say trade him while he still has value because no way he gets a $35-$45 mil contract. Yeah, that's pretty steep for an otherwise great corner that can't make INTs. From what I understand of the situation, even though '09 is his contract year, the 'Skins can just franchise him in '10. I mean, there is no reason to rush into any sort of move with regards to Carlos. He was coming off of major surgery last season, there's no reason to believe he won't be better next season. Especially when playing for a new deal, here or elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml6157 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 If our wonderful FO decides to trade him there is no way that either Malcolm Jenkins or Vontae Davis is not a Redskin come #13 in the first round. Its too sexy of a pick for them to pass up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGREENHULK Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 No, he showed last season he can shut down #1 WR's, and he's our most dependable and reliable DB. If we can re-sign Hall and then re-sign Rogers sometime this year, then we'll have our DB set for a good long time. Hopefully we release Springs unless he is willing to take a massive pay cut, and make Rogers our #1, and Hall our #2. Bingo...We need both Hall and Rogers out there Springs can't stay healthy enough to stay on the field and Smoot hasn't just lost a step he lost 2 steps. We can depend on Rogers and Hall. I don't have much faith in the other guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampEm Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 IF we could trade him for a first day draft pick that would be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never4get#21 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I cant believe it but I voted NO. I've been bashing Rogers every season prior to the start of this past one. He came off injury and played like a top first round draft choice should play. Why we wont cut/trade him. 1. There is no value in it. His injuries came back to haunt him towards the end of the season. No team will give us a 2 rounder for him so you all can keep dreaming. 2. Why would we? He's signed up to 2010 and really has no room to ask for more at this point in his career. He can be a solid #2 if he stay healthy. 3. Would you pay to bring SPRINGS back???!! Heck no. Injury prone and not a real team player not to mention his salary. Forget Springs. He's a waste. Cut him to make room to sign Hall and were set. Hall, Los, Smoot and the Cobra package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwack Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 If our wonderful FO decides to trade him there is no way that either Malcolm Jenkins or Vontae Davis is not a Redskin come #13 in the first round. Its too sexy of a pick for them to pass up I agree, if the Skins trade Rogers to a team who has a high 2nd round pick (Lions, St. Louis, or Cleveland). Then I believe the Skins will keep the streak alive of selecting a DB in the 1st round with Jenkins or Davis; and then probably go after a OL in Robinson, Loadholt, or Wood, or possibly DT Peria Jerry or OLB Clay Matthews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail Gibbs Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I say keep Los. Unless an offer comes in for a 1st or multiple first day picks I say we need to keep him. Even though Rogers play tailed off at the end of the season, I still feel he showed his best form yet with the Skins in the first half of the year, which is pretty remarkable considering he was one year removed from knee surgery. Shawn Springs is the CB who needs to go IMO. He isn't getting any younger, has always been injury prone and at his cost I don't think he is a risk worth taking. Even though he is still good when he plays, to me he seems very indifferent to the success of the team and I think he lacks commitment. He seems one of the first to point the finger elsewhere when things aren't going well and I think players of this sort need to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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