Trade Rogers or not?

[NewCliche21]

I never said 1 play cost us the season. I said it was the turning point. I hope I don't have to explain the difference again.

I didn't say that 2+2=4, I said that 3+1=4.

That's basically what you're saying, man.

[NewCliche21]

Riiight, so I should just blindly take him for his season of a little over average play right? And the fact that he might not want to play here means nothing to you. Not a mini Vinny, just playing devils advocate. Why all the hostility twords me? I didn't kick your dog or kiss your wife today so grow up and stop attacking people for their OPINION... after all we are all allowed to have one. Just because people don't agree with you they don't deserve to be called names (mini Vinny) and however else you take your bad mood out on others. Do you do this to your family members when they don't agree with you? You also contradict yourself. You say CR is a great corner, but then say we wont get anything in a trade for him.... So which is it? Great corners, even good corners garner lots of interest in trades. If Rogers is so good why would no one pony up in a trade for him? Him not being able to catch passes is only part of my knock on him. As I have said he has only played quality defense this past season and for part of the season before. Thats awesome, but Im not basing my opinion on just what he did for me last year.. I look at his whole body of work and made my opinion based on what I have seen. Do I think he played decently last year? Sure, but i don't see that as enough reason to sign him to a long term contract when we could possibly get a second rounder for a player that is unsatisfied in his current situation and may want out. So, no, no one pissed in my cornflakes, it apppears you just don't like opinions that differ from yours.

1) Paragraphs, please. You have good things to say, but blocks of text aren't helping your readers.

2) He played quality for the past two seasons, the only part that he didn't play well in was when his ACL and his knee got into a fight, so let's cut him loose? That doesn't make sense.

3) He's unhappy being a backup because he shouldn't be a backup, that's pretty much what it is.

4) ANY trade would be a net loss because we'd have basically traded a first rounder for a second rounder AND lost a starting-caliber corner who we now have to trade something else, be it cap room or picks or players, to get back, which will open up more holes. Trading/cutting him is just a bad idea all around.

5) I didn't mean to take a shot at you, I just meant to emphasize my point. I'm sorry if it came across as the former.

[Smoot Point Really]

I didn't say that 2+2=4, I said that 3+1=4.

That's basically what you're saying, man.

I believe that momentum plays a role in sports...

For instance, we were 0-5 under Marty Schottenheimer and losing to Carolina... Then Lavar Arrington intercepted a pass for a TD and the season was salvaged on the back of momentum and that 1 play. It didn't CAUSE us to go 8-8... But it was the turning point in that season. I'm saying that Carlos Rogers' dropped interception had the very same effect on this last season, only in a negative way. It wasn't the sole cause of us going 8-8, but it was the turning point in the season.

[Smoot Point Really]

BTW, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie was picked 16th (not 9) and has as many interceptions in 1 season (regular season and post season) as Carlos Rogers. That is a playmaker... Carlos Rogers isn't.

Out of the Rookie class of cornerbacks.... 7 cornerbacks returned INTs for TDs... Just the rookies last year. 32 cornerbacks total had at least 1 pick-6... 32 CBs (1 per NFL franchise just this season alone) who can look in the mirror and say they didn't drop one like Carlos.

Give me a solid CB who makes plays (like Tom Carter) over one like Carlos Rogers any day.

[Stew]

1) Paragraphs, please. You have good things to say, but blocks of text aren't helping your readers.

2) He played quality for the past two seasons, the only part that he didn't play well in was when his ACL and his knee got into a fight, so let's cut him loose? That doesn't make sense.

3) He's unhappy being a backup because he shouldn't be a backup, that's pretty much what it is.

4) ANY trade would be a net loss because we'd have basically traded a first rounder for a second rounder AND lost a starting-caliber corner who we now have to trade something else, be it cap room or picks or players, to get back, which will open up more holes. Trading/cutting him is just a bad idea all around.

5) I didn't mean to take a shot at you, I just meant to emphasize my point. I'm sorry if it came across as the former.

Thank you for clarifying.

You are right, I should punctuate proporly when speaking in a public forum. Im one of the few who are still working today so Im multi tasking.

I now see your point with the trade value thing, and you make a lot of sense. But we may trade Rogers ( a first round pick) for a second... but it includes the four years we had Rogers, so at least we got something out of him and for him maybe? I know it doesn't make up totally for a 9th pick overall, but its something, and it helps out when we only have four picks totally.

I guess Im just trying really hard to stay optimistic. For me its hard right now. we have players that want to leave, salary cap issues, 4 draft picks, a ancient Phalanx for an O-line and No D-line despite having one of the highest paid D-linemen on our roster. CP's media tirade, Zorns handling of the second half of the season.. its all got me down and instead of hope for the best, Im just expecting the worst and trying to make a somewhat bright outlook out of it. You are right and I should be more optimistic, but from what I have read it seems like CR really wants out(Im inferring from what I have read). So, I have taken the stance that if CR leaves, at least we have Hall, hopefully Springs for one more year, and we take whatever we get for Rogers and address his departure through the draft or on a journeyman with some upside. Im just trying to give some insight as to where Im coming from.

Im sorry for replying strongly. This place gets tense pretty quickly and I have been pretty quick to defend myself lately. Im sorry. I guess I just want to get these things under way. I hate the waiting part of the offseason and we have too much drama for me going on at Redskins Park. I just want to get these isssues sorted out one way or another i guess.

Anyways, thank you for your last reply.

I also realized that I butchered the spelling of almost every word in this response, again Im at work and not really watching. It doesn't help that i never won a spelling bee in school though.

[NewCliche21]

Thank you for clarifying.

You are right, I should punctuate proporly when speaking in a public forum. Im one of the few who are still working today so Im multi tasking.

I now see your point with the trade value thing, and you make a lot of sense. But we may trade Rogers ( a first round pick) for a second... but it includes the four years we had Rogers, so at least we got something out of him and for him maybe? I know it doesn't make up totally for a 9th pick overall, but its something, and it helps out when we only have four picks totally.

I guess Im just trying really hard to stay optimistic. For me its hard right now. we have players that want to leave, salary cap issues, 4 draft picks, a ancient Phalanx for an O-line and No D-line despite having one of the highest paid D-linemen on our roster. CP's media tirade, Zorns handling of the second half of the season.. its all got me down and instead of hope for the best, Im just expecting the worst and trying to make a somewhat bright outlook out of it. You are right and I should be more optimistic, but from what I have read it seems like CR really wants out(Im inferring from what I have read). So, I have taken the stance that if CR leaves, at least we have Hall, hopefully Springs for one more year, and we take whatever we get for Rogers and address his departure through the draft or on a journeyman with some upside. Im just trying to give some insight as to where Im coming from.

Im sorry for replying strongly. This place gets tense pretty quickly and I have been pretty quick to defend myself lately. Im sorry. I guess I just want to get these things under way. I hate the waiting part of the offseason and we have too much drama for me going on at Redskins Park. I just want to get these isssues sorted out one way or another i guess.

Anyways, thank you for your last reply.

Thank you, I wasn't trying to be critical, I just wanted to know what you had to say and it was hard to follow.

I just think that if we go back and, as objectively as we can, look at Rogers's performance over the past 20 games, then we'll see that he's only gotten better. I'm sick of sending our talent elsewhere (Clark, Harris, Pierce) and seeing them light it up (two of them have been to the Super Bowl) while we're stuck trying to replace them (we're STILL trying to find a good, long-term replacement for Pierce and Rogers does a great job of taking Harris's place). Trading Rogers just doesn't work for me no matter how we spin it.

I know, I know, everything sucks in Ashburn, but it always does. I've been guilty of this the past couple of days, but let's take it out on the team, not on the only ones who seem to care about the team.

[Stew]

Very good supporting post about Pierce, Clark etc... especially because those moves really burned me up as well.

My fear is that we pay CR and the regression starts. His gripe is all financial and that doesn't sit well with me. He only started griping when we signed Hall, and then only when Hall started contributing instantly (1st pick came almost immediately after starting... he may not have even started that game). that was the beginning of the CR problem. I realize its a business, but its not like he is making peanuts and still has another year or two before he becomes a FA. I just hope it doesn't get worse before its resolved. Either lets pay the man and make him happy and hope for the best, or see what we can get for him and hope Vinny does something constructive with that compensation..... and when I put it like that.... I can see your point even more clearly! Damn.... this situation gets better and better.

[Dance04]

Some guy earlier said los is not a physical CB. That's hysterical guys. Rogers is the more physical and best tackler amongst our CB's. rarely, if ever misses a tackle.

Look, bottom line, with our FO's draft history over the last 6 years, if we trade los, I guarantee you that come draft day you will hear

"and with the first pick, The washington redskins select Malcom Jenkins, CB, Ohio State"

On a side note, to add humor to the thread, sometimes carlos does remind me of this guy lol.

"but coach, it looks like I just jacked off an elephant!"

hahaha

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

It should be assumed that over time a player will improve on his abilities, through good coaching and a will to excel. I'm sure two seasons ago many people would've been surprised to know that Carlos would improve as much as he has. He may not possess the best hands for a corner, but all he has to do is clear that mental hurdle.

Carlos will be 28 years old at the start of next season. He's played organized football (I'm assuming) for 20 years.

I think it's unrealistic to expect that Carlos (who isn't that far from being 30) to suddenly learn how to catch.

[Mr. Grundle]

Here's my problem with the idea of trading Rogers....

Would we even be considering it if Snyderatto hadn't squandered this years 2nd round pick?

I don't think we would be. I think we'd be working on an extension for Hall and letting Carlos play out the final year of his contract. Then next season we would decide whether to extend him, franchise him, or let him walk in FA. We wouldn't even be thinking about bringing Springs back at his salary.

It seems like Rogers could end up being the scapegoat for a FO that once again threw away all their draft picks for nothing, and is scrambling to recover them. Unfortunately, Rogers is our only tradable asset.

So if this happens, we essentially traded a 2nd rounder, a 6th rounder, and Carlos Rogers for Jason Taylor and a 2nd round pick that will probably end up being worse than the one we had to begin with.

That being said, considering the position the FO has gotten us into again, I really don't care if they end up trading him. I wouldn't care if they traded anybody on the roster if we could. We don't have a franchise player so I don't see anyone as untradable.

[LeftCoast Skinz FAN]

If we get rid of anyone in the secondary it should be Springs. He is always hurt and he is getting up there in age.

Don't get rid of Rodgers!!!

[Spartacus87]

Explain to me then what the turning point in the season was if prior to that moment we were 6-2 and ahead of the Pittsburgh Steelers? Maybe the blocked the punt? If Rogers had intercepted the ball we'd still have gone into half-time with a 13-10 lead even with the blocked punt.

Tell me... What was the turning point in the season if that wasn't it? If you don't think momentum matters, then tell me how a 9-7 team that we beat is in the Super Bowl? Tell me how the team we swept in our division made the NFC Championship game? Yes, we could've gone far... We had momentum at the beginning of the season and went 6-2... We lost momentum going into the bye week and the Carlos Rogers play (not to mention his 43-yard pass interference penalty) was the critical to the outcome of that game.

You're not making any sense here.

Yeah, we swept the Eagles this year, in fact we've pretty much had their number for the most part going back to 2005, the same way the Giants have had ours. But they ended up with a better overall record than us, equal defense, and better offense. They're a better team, and their coaching staff and several players on their roster, including their QB, have deep playoff experience.

The Cardinals had momentum going into the playoffs? Really?

Their last game of the year was getting crushed by the Patriots, 47 to 7. Before that, they lost to the Vikings, 35 to 14. Two games before that, they lost to the Eagles, 48 to 20.

The Cardinals completely stumbled and fell backwards into the playoffs. They went from 0-60 once they got in there in games that mattered, but heading into the playoffs in that fashion obviously doesn't show you as having much momentum.

You're overrating this "momentum" idea when it comes down to it. Teams are either good and ready to play with the big boys, or they're not. We had all the momentum in the WORLD going into the playoffs last year, the offense was clicking really well, the team was emotionally supercharged playing for ST, and we got beat around by Seattle, who was faster than us on defense, and played more efficiently on offense than us.

The season was over for us once the Cowboys came into FedEx and manhandled us, and we let Barber run for over 100 yards, control the clock, and score a TD. While we were coming off a bye and they were just getting Romo sits to pee back while he could barely throw a football properly.

Or coming out completely flat against the Giants at home following Sean Taylor's Ring of Honor ceremony.

Or Portis fumbling against the Ravens, and Reed scooping it up and taking it back for 6.

Rogers dropping an INT doesn't change the fact that we didn't have a good offense at all, and we got beat around by great defenses and better overall teams. Even if we beat the Steelers in that game (which doesn't mean anything in the long run for saying anything, because the Steelers are 100% a better team than us), our offense wasn't going to magically spark and beat the Ravens and Giants.

We ended up the way we did because our o-line is ancient, injured, and average as a whole, our receiving corp is pretty mediocre outside of Santana Moss, our QB situation is pretty shaky right now, and Portis is wearing down and beginning to show his age.

Trying to say that Rogers is a bum and isn't worth keeping around because he dropped one INT that may or may not have possibly won us that game, which in turn could have somehow maybe sparked some magical season run for us, is absolutely ridiculous.

[TheSkins2006]

Re-sign Hall and Clos...YOUNG [good] PLAYERS OMG...keep smoot only for nickel and dime packages, and then use springs in triple safety set formations (if and ONLY if he takes a pay cut) and in some dime packages.

[Hunter_R]

How is this a debate? Not no, but hell no. It's stupid to try and draft someone better than Rogers with whatever meager pick he'd garner. Not to mention that, if a trade goes down, that the pick should be used on something other than a corner (which also means you just knee-capped the defense). Rogers just wants to be a starter. That's what he was upset about. Get rid of Springs. He's definitely at the end of his career, and it should be obvious that he's not going to play in many more games.

[Smoot Point Really]

You're not making any sense here.

I don't make sense? You are the one trying to argue that the very NEXT game was the turning point even though we went to Seattle and won the game after that (albeit unconvincingly). IMO, when Carlos dropped that pick-6, it's like the "Fates" came together and said: Carlos isn't supposed to catch the ball and the Redskins aren't supposed to be 6-2... We ended the season 8-8...

I argue that the Carlos Rogers dropped pick-6 in the Steelers game of last season had a similar, but opposite, effect on the Redskins as Lavar Arrington's pick-6 against the Carolina Panthers when we were 0-5...

The Cardinals had momentum going into the playoffs? Really?

I'm not over-rating momentum. You don't think the Cardinals have momentum right now? You don't think that team is playing with incredible confidence since the Seattle game? They eked their way into the playoffs and then went on a tear defeating Atlanta, Carolina, Philly... How is that not momentum?

[Spartacus87]

I don't make sense? You are the one trying to argue that the very NEXT game was the turning point even though we went to Seattle and won the game after that (albeit unconvincingly). IMO, when Carlos dropped that pick-6, it's like the "Fates" came together and said: Carlos isn't supposed to catch the ball and the Redskins aren't supposed to be 6-2... We ended the season 8-8...

I argue that the Carlos Rogers dropped pick-6 in the Steelers game of last season had a similar, but opposite, effect on the Redskins as Lavar Arrington's pick-6 against the Carolina Panthers when we were 0-5...

I'm not over-rating momentum. You don't think the Cardinals have momentum right now? You don't think that team is playing with incredible confidence since the Seattle game? They eked their way into the playoffs and then went on a tear defeating Atlanta, Carolina, Philly... How is that not momentum?

And what "turning point" caused that momentum for them?

They got killed in their last few games, and many people wrote them off against the Falcons.

They didn't need a "turning point," they just ended up being coached better and turning it on for themselves.

Like I said, momentum is a nice cliche and helps sometimes, but either you're better than the other team combined with wanting it more, or you're not.

The Redskins just weren't better than a lot of other teams in the league this year, and Carlos dropping an INT doesn't change that, especially considering he himself is one of the better players on the team.

[darrelgreenie]

We don't run a lot of zone coverage with our corners. That is one thing that makes it tougher to get interceptions. We don't get enough pressure with our defensive line. That's another. Rogers got 2 picks this year. Which was 1 behind leading our team. Yeah, that sucks. Nonetheless rogers is not the problem with this team.

I think we play a good mix of man and zone. I've remember seeing us play a little Cover 2 and alot of Cover 3 (you know, when the corners play off coverage deep 1/3 zone and Dirty has the deep middle).

[Gerald362]

This is the best opinion I have seen in a while. I am a die-hard Skins fan and have been for many years, but I have seen many players we have had who could have gone for value stay longer than the trade value we could have gotten.

That being said, Rogers does need to work on his hands to fully appreciate his potential

Just as an aside, I also voted to not trade, since this codicil was not an option in the voting. I dont think that trading for draft is always the best usage of trading if you lose a promising player for unknown value.

I think is just approaching his potential last year and we have the opportunity to have Hall, Rogers, Smoot and Horton in our secondary for the next 5 to 8 years.

That said, I think every player should be available at the right price. I wouldnt want to give him up for anything less than a 1st tho

[Pounds]

Some guy earlier said los is not a physical CB. That's hysterical guys. Rogers is the more physical and best tackler amongst our CB's. rarely, if ever misses a tackle.

You're right he's an extremely sure tackler for a corner, but I think the poster you're alluding to was making a point about his technique on a releasing WR. Said poster made a point that Carlos doesn't typically press his man.

[Dance04]

You're right he's an extremely sure tackler for a corner, but I think the poster you're alluding to was making a point about his technique on a releasing WR. Said poster made a point that Carlos doesn't typically press his man.

If that's what he meant, then yes he is right.

[Est.1974]

I didn't blame the season on him... I blamed him for not making a play... the play that was the turning point in the season.

It was the turning point in the season for Carlos. I believe that was the play that ultimately led to his introduction to the dog-house.

On the OP, the main factor in this is what Carlos wants long term. If he wants a massive contract (ie top 5 CB ) that he isn't going to get, trade him now. I think his value is at its highest point now. However, the trade value must be mid-second round minimum.

I don't think its good for him to stay IF he is unhappy, irrespective of who's fault that is.

Go watch the Bengals game ( I think ) where the WR snagged an easy redzone TD on him. That was one play where he did not appear to try.

By the way, before I get flamed for being anti-Carlos, I'm not. He's a very good #2 corner IMO who deserves a decent, but not over inflated contract.

However, we should also judge the trade / no trade scenario based on what we 'think' is the situation / relationship is now between him the FO.

[georgiaredskin]

You guys who say "oh well, so what" when he drops ANOTHER pass that hits him in the numbers don't know much about football. We lose a possession, often with scoring field position, every time that happens. And it happens every time he has an opportunity. Turnovers change games, and we sure could use somebody who can make them.

Vinny overpaying mediocre to average players has got us in the boat we are in now.

I intensely dislike when people over-generalize people. I believe you are the one who wasn't even watching the last game, Mister, when he was the one who caught the last interception of our year. Maybe we should call Santana Moss mediocre because he drops passes that are "right between the numbers"?

This guy is HOT now and on the rise for an awesome career, rocking the best chemistry a secondary can have on and off the field, which is the security of our defense.

History tells all. You take one key player out, and that chemistry you once had so fine is GONE. POOF. And you may never get it back. Case in point: RYAN CLARK. When he left, it took a LONG time for our players to regain some of that chemistry.

Heck. May not be realistic. But I sure hope we can keep Springs. Springs at Safety, Smoot & Carlos- those 3 make the Redskins fun again. I'd HATE to see them be broken up. With Hall, we are just on fire.

[turbodiesel#44]

I intensely dislike when people over-generalize people.

I have been defending Rogers on this board for years due to his decent coverage and rush coverage skills. But the fact is, he drops more balls than any cornerback I have ever seen anywhere. I keep thinking next year he will improve, but he does not. Yeah, I watched him made that pick. I also watched Heath Shuler throw a touchdown pass! (not lying) I would like to keep Carlos, maybe even with a small raise. You think thats what he wants? You are delusional.

This team is devolving in front of our eyes. We are stuck with overpaid mediocre talent. CR has youth going for him, but he is not worth paying top ten money to with the hopes that his skills catch up to his salary. When has that ever happened? The FO (and some of you fans) seem to be blind to the fact that guys like Jon Jansen have an 8 mil cap hit this coming year. Smoot is 4.5. This BS will prevent the team from improving, plain and simple. Hall is worth Spring's money. CR is not. And if he wants to ***** and moan about a trade, we should let somebody else overpay.

BTW, I never wanted Clark to go, and he went away over peanuts. Said so many times right here. Every situation has it's own circumstances. Don't lump me in some boat without having the ass to research my posts. You are the one generalizing, so I guess you don't like yourself much.

[RenegadeTK]

Carlos is by no means a shut-down corner, but he is a solid player who i feel has consistently improved. we need consistency on our roster and solid player like carlos is who we need to keep around.

[Laron Burgundy]

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=279272

Check that out if you haven't already. Carlos is NOT a #2 corner. By those stats he is one of the top 10 corners in coverage in the league. Can we stop whining about his lack of interceptions and move on please? He's arguably our 3rd best player under 30, only behind portis and cooley, and half of you want to trade him.