DCsportsfan53 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Man, the post just LOVES to stir the pot any way they can. I'm sorry, I agree with cutting Frost. Sure, he's looked good in the preseason but he's always looked great in stretches. The problem is, he's also always ****ed up big time in big spots for us. Move along, how in the hell do you manage a two page negative article off a butt hurt punter? :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 if this was Parcells cutting Frost in Miami, nobody in the press would have said anything about it. when a punter finishes #24 in the league he should have been cut at the end of last season to clear the decks for a new year. that was the team's only mistake here. He wasn't good enough game in and game out. So he is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 if this was Parcells cutting Frost in Miami, nobody in the press would have said anything about it. when a punter finishes #24 in the league he should have been cut at the end of last season to clear the decks for a new year. that was the team's only mistake here. He wasn't good enough game in and game out. So he is gone. Exactly. Wise doesn't think Danny Smith remembers the 14 yard punt against Seattle in the playoffs? He doesn't think the special teams coach who's coached Frost the last 3 years had a strong say in this? Who here can honestly come out and tell me they had faith in Frost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDevil Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Exactly. Wise doesn't think Danny Smith remembers the 14 yard punt against Seattle in the playoffs? He doesn't think the special teams coach who's coached Frost the last 3 years had a strong say in this? Who here can honestly come out and tell me they had faith in Frost? Yeah that 14 yarder was pretty much a one way ticket out. They would of kept Frost if nothing really better came along but as soon as they drafted a punter it was a clear cut sign he should be updating his resume. Frost can't honestly expect us to believe that he was so blind as to not see this coming... Brooks literally would of had to punt several 14 yarders in preseason for this to even be a race. Frost, you were not treated unfairly at all... as a matter of fact you should be THANKING the skins for keeping you throughout the preseason. Your lucky streak of good performances in the preseason may just land you a job somewhere else. If you were cut at the end of the season last year you would be trying to a land job with that highlight reel from the Seattle game and we all know how great that was. You were offered a chance to basically showcase your talent the last 4 weeks and someone may just pick you up now... I just hope they are satisfied with mediocrity and inconsistency because those are the only things you seem to be able to repeat on a consistent basis, not those 65 yarders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Oh, and in case more stats are required:Number of punts out of bounds: Frost: 0 Brooks: 0 Advantage: neither Number of punts inside the 20: Frost: 4 (26.7%) Brooks: 5 (38.5%) Advantage: Brooks Number of punts downed by coverage team: Frost: 1 (6.7%) Brooks: 2 (15.4%) Advantage: Brooks Number of fair catch punts: Frost: 1 (6.7%) Brooks: 2 (15.4%) Advantage: Brooks Number of punts returned: Frost: 10 (67%) Brooks: 7 (54.0%) Advantage: Brooks Return yardage: Frost: 11.9 ypr Brooks: 5.23 ypr Huge advantage: Brooks So out of 9 stats, Brooks won six of them. Frost won two. And the tied in one of them. And I'm not even counting what the actual hang time comparisons were, so for all we know Brooks beat him out in that as well. Seriously...how could Wise, the thread starter, or anyone with at least three working brain cells claim that the punting contest was "rigged" and that Frost obviously "won the contest"?...somebody help me out here. Stupidty should hurt, but it doesnt. Which is why they survive long enough to write columns for the WP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyriggins Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Sorry if it sounded like I was calling someone a lair. I am frustrated about the piling/hating on Frost and that the stats report only the negative on him. I will touch on what I mean by the stats. Touchbacks are a bad thing cause when the ball is punting into the endzone it goes back to the 20. I dont think it was reported that Frost had 1 TB and Brooks had 2. Fair catches are a goodthing, but it was mistakingly reported that Frost had 1 FC and Brooks 2 when in fact the advatage was to Frost 3, Brooks 2, by nfl.com. I could not find the stat that has been used by someone OppTeamAvg FldPos. which showed that Brooks opp. started deeper in thier own territory, But it doesn't take into account that Frost's Avg.Line of Scrimage was have been futher away, remember how our offense against Caroline couldn't move the ball. Also in the Jags game a penility was not used in the field position for Frost, but in the Indy game I think Brooks had a punt returned for a TD that wasnt allowed because of penlity. Brooks clearly won the net yard avg. But in Frost's career avg his net is 4 yds better than this preseason so he would do better in the regular season. Brook's was better in the net this preseason but 34.something is not good can we be sure that a rookie will do better. Remember in comparison to his college career he has not kicked as good as people thought that he would have when drafting him. That shank by Frost really hurt him, Brooks won because he was more consistant and that is a good thing. Hopefully he will get back to where he was in college. I am going to try and stay off of this subjuect now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Seriously, 8 page thread for a ****ing punter? It's about time the season starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins:Victory_or_Death Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Seriously, 8 page thread for a ****ing punter? It's about time the season starts.Maybe this should become one of the "classic" threads, such as, "paloffs is now" and "M_SF Sig Bet" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 For the record, Mr. Wise did reply to me. I don't post those responses simply because he wrote it directly to me and I did not ask his permission to repost his reply. He was very gracious and defended his article a bit. He said he was not attacking the draft class or Cerrato. I thanked him for his reply...it was very prompt and polite and told him that I generally enjoy his work and find him to be fair (which is true). I simply disagreed with the tone of his latest piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Er MODS!PLease sticky this thread as an example of what ES was like "back in the day"! *applause* <insert four normal laffy smilies here> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNatsFan Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 The single biggest issue I have with Frost's comments is that a veteran NFL punter doesn't appear to understand that net yardage is more important than gross.(Wise on the other hand has demonstrated his lack of NFL knowledge quite glaringly in the past, but he's not in the NFL, so it doesn't matter as much) It's not about who can kick it the farthest. If you out kick the coverage by kicking it low and long, you're going to get the result that Frost got on his longest kick of Thursday, 28 net yards and great field position for the opposing team. That is no where near NFL caliber. Frost would do well in the punting portion of a punt, pass and kick competition though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stophovr6 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 We shouldn't be punting anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 We shouldn't be punting anyways. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: :applause::applause::applause: You won the internets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Typical Post throwing disgruntled former players up on the podium, pretending what they have to say is the ultimate truth. Frost said their stats were even. What he never mentions is how he and Brooks fared in practice, the reps we don't see. Are some of you really surprised why Snyder hates the Post? It's crap like this, irresponsible journalism designed only to insult and demean, not analyze and critique. If Frost had won this story would have been spun the other way to disfavor the Skins. And yes, this is a shot at Snyder and Cerrato, as Cerrato doesn't make the cut decisions, it's the head coach and his staff who do. But the Post would rather paint the picture of evil Dan and Vinny "trying to make their draft look better". WTF? If Brooks doesn't make it, you still have 9 of your 10 draft picks making the team. Then there is a slam on Davis for the oversleeping incident, which hasn't happened since, and no mention of his actual preseason performance. The Post is trying to run with doubts/concerns fans have with the rookies and manipulate that into an impression that the draft class sucks, eventhough they haven't played a down yet. Davis' one incident doesn't make him a bad player, Thomas and Kelly weren't realistically expected to do a lot this season, as rookie WRs rarely do. They both have concerns, but neither is a bust right now. Rinehart has been solid, Horton and Moore have done very good things in the preseason, Jackson had a great preseason esp. since he was a 7th rounder who prob. 99% of ES thought was PS bound. Colt has a cult following. The last preseason game was to be a "punt off" because the competition was even going into the game. Nowhere does the Post mention Frost had a shank and Brooks did not. Tryon has struggled, but has shown flashes also. He was a 4th rounder, can you imagine the field day the Post would have had if Tryon were cut? If we put him on PS he gets taken by another team. If you get past the injury and conditioning issues of Thomas and Kelly (the flash) and actually get to the substance (the rest of the picks) this draft has looked good through preseason overall. All 10 draft picks made the squad, something none of us truly foresaw. That's a good thing. Screw the Post and their irresponsible journalism. It's a stupid pissing match between Snyder and the Post, and both sides need to get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelarkascend1ng Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 there have to be better things to focus on at this point than frost moaning about being cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I don't ever remember a punter causing this kind of a stir on cutdown week. Perhaps we have some jaded and coddled veterans on this team as well - one veteran's comments that 'not all decisions around here are football related' when applied to this situation seems like no more than sour grapes by someone that liked Frost and had a personal issue. Why not sign and develop as many of the draft picks as possible? Brooks happens to be one of the draft picks that has been performing well and has been healthy and out there each day during the offseason taking his work. He is perhaps the draft pick LEAST vulnerable to any charges of favoritism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Sorry if it sounded like I was calling someone a lair. I am frustrated about the piling/hating on Frost and that the stats report only the negative on him. I will touch on what I mean by the stats.Touchbacks are a bad thing cause when the ball is punting into the endzone it goes back to the 20. I dont think it was reported that Frost had 1 TB and Brooks had 2. Fair catches are a goodthing, but it was mistakingly reported that Frost had 1 FC and Brooks 2 when in fact the advatage was to Frost 3, Brooks 2, by nfl.com. I could not find the stat that has been used by someone OppTeamAvg FldPos. which showed that Brooks opp. started deeper in thier own territory, But it doesn't take into account that Frost's Avg.Line of Scrimage was have been futher away, remember how our offense against Caroline couldn't move the ball. Also in the Jags game a penility was not used in the field position for Frost, but in the Indy game I think Brooks had a punt returned for a TD that wasnt allowed because of penlity. Brooks clearly won the net yard avg. But in Frost's career avg his net is 4 yds better than this preseason so he would do better in the regular season. Brook's was better in the net this preseason but 34.something is not good can we be sure that a rookie will do better. Remember in comparison to his college career he has not kicked as good as people thought that he would have when drafting him. That shank by Frost really hurt him, Brooks won because he was more consistant and that is a good thing. Hopefully he will get back to where he was in college. I am going to try and stay off of this subjuect now I didn't include touchbacks simply because it's difficult to know if the TB was caused by the punter punting into the end zone or if the punter actually landed the punt inside the 5 and the coverage couldn't keep it from going into the end zone. I'll give you the fair catch flub, though...I must have been looking at the wrong column at the time. But even WITH that, Brooks still outperforms Frost in the numbers, which is EXACTLY what Danny Smith said would determine who they kept, and he said this back on August 1st. Smith did NOT say "we'll take Frost's numbers from last regular season, compare them to last preseason, then compare Brooks numbers from THIS preseason, then add two and divide by 12..."...It was straight-up numbers comparisons from this preseason only. And Brooks had the better numbers. The most telling one, though, was the average return yardage per punt. Brooks was severely ahead in that stat...and if the hang time did lean in Brooks' favor, then that's all she wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumplestilskin Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Once I saw him shank his last punt I knew he was gone, Sore loser that he is. Oh ya UnWise Mike your just bitter that your balding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Yep, I think UnWise Mike forgot that after the loss to Seattle in the playoffs that Frost did not deliver one NFL level kick - a critical component when playing away and field advantage is a must. That assessment was from the Skins' special teams coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rypien1191 Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 "The fact that all 10 draft picks made the roster, even with many of them not exactly shining in the preseason, was not lost on the veterans. The fact that 20 percent of the roster is occupied by these players, again, something that was talked about a bit in the lockeroom." "It's a dirty business," one veteran said of the fact all 10 draft picks made it. "It's not always about football around here." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stophovr6 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::applause::applause::applause: You won the internets! :1stplace: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Master III Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Preseason Punting Statistics (Source:NFL.com)Punter......Punts.........NetAvg.......RetYds......In20....OppTeamAvgFldPosition BROOKS.......13............34.5...........68.............5..............24.9 FROST.........15............32.3..........179............4.............33.2 Perhaps you were unfamiliar with how the "greater than" and "less than" symbols work. This clearly shows that Brooks (rookie) is better than Frost (vet). Take a look at opp. team field position and return yards. The more hang time, the less likely the chance for a big return. That is the reason hang time is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 No one seems to bother to think for a second about which stats are important for punting, or in football in general, for that matter. You see it in the draft every year. Jamarcus Russel for example. He was drafted 1st overall based on what? He can throw the ball farther than other guys, lol. Frost kicked the ball over 60 yards a few times. Who cares that his kicks are regularly returned for 20-40 yards though. He must be the better punter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Normally, Wise does a pretty good job, but this column is weaksauce. No, Brooks doesn't need to be Reggie Roby. He just needs to be better than Frost.He's probably right that Frost was the one trying out and Brooks just needed to show he could be consistent. That being said, we aren't talking about one of the better punters in the league. We are talking about a guy who has been rated toward the bottom of the league for most of this career. And he points out average when he ignores net average, which is where Brooks wins. It isn't just about how far one kicks but also hangtime and control. I don't know how either rate in that department, but they seem to like what Brooks showed. Fact is, if Frost was doing a good job in the coaching staffs eyes, Brooks wouldn't have been drafted. Jason you're all missing the point. brooks was drafted...he was gonna be "the guy". we are in an obvious retooling mode. the point? Frost can always be resigned should Brooks come a cropper. it's a low risk move (not likely Frost will be picked up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 I said it before ... I'll say it again ... Brooks will be the next "Ray Guy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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