Mike Wise: Left Chilled By Draft (M.E.T.)

[superozman]

You're kidding, right?

No...tell me one reason why Brooks is better than Frost?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Somebody send both Frost AND Wise this article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nfl&id=3515202

Some highlights:

During the offseason, Smith had a blunt conversation with Frost, showing him on paper that the Redskins "didn't have an NFL punter" in the playoff loss to Seattle at the end of last season. Frost punted eight times in that game, and Smith said not a single one of them had a hang time of 4.5 seconds -- the benchmark for a decent punt. A 33-yard effort in the fourth quarter gave the Seahawks good field position to score the go-ahead touchdown.

Smith said it will be easy to determine a winner -- just simply look at the numbers once the preseason games are done. Gross yards. Net yards. Hang time.

"We're going to lay it on the table and match those numbers up," Smith said, "and keep the best guy."

Hmm, ok...let's look at the numbers:

Gross yards:

Frost: 45.5

Brooks: 42.8

Advantage: Frost

Net yards:

Frost: 32.3

Brooks: 34.5

Advantage: Brooks

Hang Time:

Well, I don't know who had the better hang time since they don't list those stats...and even Wise says he doesn't know who had the better hang time (not that it seemed to matter to him that he didn't know). So let's go on average yard differential between the length of the punt and the net yardage on the same punt:

Frost: 13.2

Brooks: 8.3

Advantage: Brooks

So from where I sit, Brooks beat out Frost in two of the three categories mentioned in that article dated back on August 1st.

So where's the problem, Wise?

How in THE hell did ESPN understand the truth here, but Frost didn't? It's in freakin' black and white for every mf on earth to see!!! And even Wise decides that what's REALLY going on is some sort of shenannigans on the part of Cerrato to "justify" this year's draft crop? lol :doh:...And he actually typed that up as if anyone would buy it?

Oh, wait...the thread starter bought it, hook, line and sinker, didn't he?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

No...tell me one reason why Brooks is better than Frost?

Read above.

[mcjunken]

Frost > Brooks

end of story.

Preseason showed it...:logo:

Preseason Punting Statistics (Source:NFL.com)

Punter......Punts.........NetAvg.......RetYds......In20....OppTeamAvgFldPosition

BROOKS.......13............34.5...........68.............5..............24.9

FROST.........15............32.3..........179............4.............33.2

Perhaps you were unfamiliar with how the "greater than" and "less than" symbols work.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

No...tell me one reason why Brooks is better than Frost?

Here you go:

Somebody send both Frost AND Wise this article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?...nfl&id=3515202

Some highlights:

Quote:

During the offseason, Smith had a blunt conversation with Frost, showing him on paper that the Redskins "didn't have an NFL punter" in the playoff loss to Seattle at the end of last season. Frost punted eight times in that game, and Smith said not a single one of them had a hang time of 4.5 seconds -- the benchmark for a decent punt. A 33-yard effort in the fourth quarter gave the Seahawks good field position to score the go-ahead touchdown.

Quote:

Smith said it will be easy to determine a winner -- just simply look at the numbers once the preseason games are done. Gross yards. Net yards. Hang time.

"We're going to lay it on the table and match those numbers up," Smith said, "and keep the best guy."

Hmm, ok...let's look at the numbers:

Gross yards:

Frost: 45.5

Brooks: 42.8

Advantage: Frost

Net yards:

Frost: 32.3

Brooks: 34.5

Advantage: Brooks

Hang Time:

Well, I don't know who had the better hang time since they don't list those stats...and even Wise says he doesn't know who had the better hang time (not that it seemed to matter to him that he didn't know). So let's go on average yard differential between the length of the punt and the net yardage on the same punt:

Frost: 13.2

Brooks: 8.3

Advantage: Brooks

So from where I sit, Brooks beat out Frost in two of the three categories mentioned in that article dated back on August 1st.

So where's the problem, Wise?

How in THE hell did ESPN understand the truth here, but Frost didn't? It's in freakin' black and white for every mf on earth to see!!! And even Wise decides that what's REALLY going on is some sort of shenannigans on the part of Cerrato to "justify" this year's draft crop? lol ...And he actually typed that up as if anyone would buy it?

Oh, wait...the thread starter bought it, hook, line and sinker, didn't he?

[jivelikenice]

Derrick Frost:

'07

Avg- 28th in NFL

Net- 25th in NFL

'06

Avg- 21th in NFL

Net- 17th in NFL

'05

Avg- 28th in NFL

Net- 20th in NFL

What exactly are we arguing about? Sure his avg was competitive with Durant this year but he had to beat him, not be close with him. If Durant showed he could be decent right now, they were going to go with him because in the long run they know he can be better than Frost is now.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

Perhaps you were unfamiliar with how the "greater than" and "less than" symbols work.

Well it's obvious that math isn't one of his strong points...lol.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Oh, and in case more stats are required:

Number of punts out of bounds:

Frost: 0

Brooks: 0

Advantage: neither

Number of punts inside the 20:

Frost: 4 (26.7%)

Brooks: 5 (38.5%)

Advantage: Brooks

Number of punts downed by coverage team:

Frost: 1 (6.7%)

Brooks: 2 (15.4%)

Advantage: Brooks

Number of fair catch punts:

Frost: 1 (6.7%)

Brooks: 2 (15.4%)

Advantage: Brooks

Number of punts returned:

Frost: 10 (67%)

Brooks: 7 (54.0%)

Advantage: Brooks

Return yardage:

Frost: 11.9 ypr

Brooks: 5.23 ypr

Huge advantage: Brooks

So out of 9 stats, Brooks won six of them. Frost won two. And the tied in one of them. And I'm not even counting what the actual hang time comparisons were, so for all we know Brooks beat him out in that as well.

Seriously...how could Wise, the thread starter, or anyone with at least three working brain cells claim that the punting contest was "rigged" and that Frost obviously "won the contest"?...somebody help me out here.

[mcjunken]

Seriously...how could Wise, the thread starter, or anyone with at least three working brain cells claim that the punting contest was "rigged" and that Frost obviously "won the contest"?...somebody help me out here.

No one seems to bother to think for a second about which stats are important for punting, or in football in general, for that matter. When it comes to punting, most just look at the AVG yardage and call it a day. If this were baseball, there would be hundreds of over-educated number crunchers publishing statistical analyses of every single thing that happened in the game in the hope that they could become the next Theo Epstein. In the case of Wise, it's all about stirring up some sort of half-****ed controversy and selling newspapers/getting blog hits. That's the whole reason that JLC conducted a telephone interview with Frost in the first place.

[jivelikenice]

They look at avg alone and think that does it. The articles in the Post are a joke. To write articles like that and not once reference net avg or Frost's actual rankings amongst NFL punters the past 3 years is absolutely horrible and an example of why people aren't looking at to newspapers and columnists for their information anymore...

[lupin_iv]

So out of 9 stats, Brooks won six of them. Frost won two. And the tied in one of them. And I'm not even counting what the actual hang time comparisons were, so for all we know Brooks beat him out in that as well.

Seriously...how could Wise, the thread starter, or anyone with at least three working brain cells claim that the punting contest was "rigged" and that Frost obviously "won the contest"?...somebody help me out here.

Strong work as always, Califan. :applause:

[LoudMouth12thMan]

Frost had his chance, but he looked the same he's looked the past three years. He booted two long balls, and one got returned for 40 yards b/c why?...He out-kicked his coverage.

I watched from the club level, which is a great place to see how the flight of the ball looks [the view is the only reason I commented on where I was sitting BTW]. Brooks consistently hung the ball up there much higher than I've ever seen Frost do, with distance to boot. I watched two live games with both punters getting action. Brooks has a rocket launcher for a leg. And the most important thing is, he get's hang time, and it allows his coverage team to get to the returner before he [the returner] is able to find a lane. Simple enough, no mystery there, right?

Therefore, Brooks got the job. All that other pansy, feel sorry for yourself, obviously never been cut or had your job taken from you in a sport, doesn't matter.

That comment about Vinny wanting to polish a turd of a draft by keeping a rookie punter is laughable. We could have the next Jerry Rice or the next Michael Westbrook in Malcolm Kelly, you don't know. Tryon could turn out to be a great corner w/ more practice. He's got the speed, he's around the ball, and can tackle okay. Or, he could be as crappy as he's looked so far in the pre-season. We don't know. Frost is a punter ladies and gentlemen, and he's probably not a very good evaluator of talent at other positions, especially skill positions. Frost is a great tackler, but if you do your job as a punter, you shouldn't have to tackle anyone pal.

People behave like this when they get fired, it's a natural reaction. But a couple of mediots trying to jab at the proverbial rib of Vinny just b/c he doesn't give them access anymore b/c of inappropriate/shoddy reporting, and using a fired punter to jab at him, is equally as laughable as Frost's supposed comment to the "sorcerer" about Vinny trying to puff up the draft class by keeping Brooks.

Bit of a stretch, don't ya' think? Quit talking about the punter Wise

BTW, if Frost is as good as he says he is, why should he have to be worried about being let go the day of cuts versus being let go 2 weeks ago so he could find a job. Seems to me the coaches thought that someone would pick him up right away. Why is he so concerned? Isn't Frost as good as he thinks he is? :paranoid:

[1972FAN]

Wise is a non factor, the fact is the FO and the Coach no more on whats needed for the team than a B-rated columnist giving a opinion. I never seen somebody so infatuated about the kickers?, they were close Brooks is younger and cheaper and stats were comparable to Frost. It was a better move I think.

[BleedBNG]

BTW, if Frost is as good as he says he is, why should he have to be worried about being let go the day of cuts versus being let go 2 weeks ago so he could find a job. Seems to me the coaches thought that someone would pick him up right away. Why is he so concerned? Isn't Frost as good as he thinks he is? :paranoid:

Exactly. He only has to wait till after next Monday. I'm sure there'll be plenty of teams clamoring for his services like they did before March 20th when he was an UFA. :violin:

I'm sure UnWise Mike would if he were a GM.

[tonyriggins]

I see alot of stats being throw out there to BRooks advantage, but it is just to put it nicely stretching the truth a bit dont ya think, or perhaps a honest mishap. People say that Brooks had a better hang time, I am sure as heck aint going to believe that after seeing Brooks fans mislead the stats. I can buy Brooks winning for being for constant, not for out kicking him.

[Mooka]

:bfd:

"I think we all know who made the decision, and when you've got a draft that isn't starting to look so good, you're going to do whatever you can to make it look as good as possible."

I know he just lost his job, but jeeze Derrick, kinda bitter eh?

[TSO]

Is UnWise Mike serious here?

I mean, does he honestly feel like this article was ok to publish? Does he have no moral integrity as a jorunalist knowing many unsuspecting people will read this believing it to be factual and honest?

Are extremeskins fans almost completely united here?

Are pigs flying?

Am I asking way too many questions?

Just to actually add something... Frost has really disappointed me. Talk about low class. Brooks, a young man just beginning his NFL career, even walked up to Frost, a vet in this league who should also be more mature than Brooks, and congratulated him after the final preseason game. Yes, Brooks was the one who showed good sportsmanship.

That's all we should need to know right there about Frost. As if the fact that he went to JLC of all people wasn't enough. Way to backstab your teammates and the organization that has paid you a lot more money than most people in this world ever get close to touching. Nice.

[squatch66]

I see alot of stats being throw out there to BRooks advantage, but it is just to put it nicely stretching the truth a bit dont ya think, or perhaps a honest mishap. People say that Brooks had a better hang time, I am sure as heck aint going to believe that after seeing Brooks fans mislead the stats. I can buy Brooks winning for being for constant, not for out kicking him.

would you believe your own two eyes? go watch the jacksonville game and compare their first punts. yes brooks was a little shorter but it hung up there forever. frost kicks lower.

[Truant]

Wise got his ass kicked in this thread.

Frost has come off as classless. Throughout the offseason he's been campaigning saying that he's given "good service" to the organization. A below average punting job is not remarkable and he was anything but irreplaceable.

That a rookie punter could match/outplay him is unacceptable.

Right now Brooks is as good as Frost. In a year he'll be far better than Frost could ever dream.

[Burgold]

It wasn't a fair competition. All Brooks had to do is beat Frost, but Frost had to beat Brooks and FROST. He came up close against Brooks, but Frost still lost against Frost. When you have a tie, then you look to the tiebreakers. Frost lost the tiebreakers because of his history here.

[FFEMT284]

Who will be holding now for the skins since Frost is gone, Will Brooks take over duties, or will one of the QB's come in here.

[Jumbo]

Rarely on ES does a pro media writer and a thread-starter get their collective head handed to them so thoroughly and unanimously. Such consensus on any topic in the community is heartwarming and noteworthy. :notworthy:applause:

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

Rarely on ES does a pro media writer and a thread-starter get their collective head handed to them so thoroughly and unanimously. Such consensus on any topic in the community is heartwarming and noteworthy. :notworthy:applause:

I believe this is a sign of the Apocolypse... :paranoid:

[TotalRecall]

I think Frost had a point. Most of you may not like it, but all these draft picks were not worthy of keeping. Tryon was awful. Frost should have performed better, but Brooks didn't do any better than him. It does look like the draftees got a one-year free ride.

BTW, all this talk about hangtime is stupid. When will we get a punter that consistently kicks the ball out of bounds? And if you say that it's more likely to be blocked with directional punting, that's pure nonsense.

[paloosa]

UnWise Mike is an idiot and knows nothing about evaluating talent or seeing that an inconsistent punter was given a fair shake at earning his job. Derrick Frost was never lied to about his job or told untruths. What do you say to a player that punts and the ball gets to the return guy before your coverage can get there? "Derrick, your doing a great job at punting the ball long but you need to get some hang time and don't worry about us drafting Brooks. He was just drafted because we needed to draft someone." Give me a break! Derrick Frost was given every opportunity to prove that he could punt consistent and effective but what does he do? He punts a 65 yarder and another one for 61 or so then shanks one for 20 which gave him a 45.5 average. What did Brooks do. he kick the ball the same way and gave his coverage team time to do what they do.

Another thing that the article pointed out was about how Zorn called out his top draft picks at WR. You know what I like that because if you are out of shape and they aren't performing then you ought to be called out at least once. But it wasn't done in a bad way like the media wants you to believe. Zorn mentioned it as they came to camp out of shape and that it would put them behind the rest of the players. It wasn't like he said "Yeah Kelly and Thomas came into came into camp out of shape and they are going to either get in shape or they will be cut." That is what guys like UnWise Mike and the rest of the Redskins haters want you to think because they are paid to stir up trouble.

Another thing he also mentioned was about Jon Jansens job and how he is fighting for his starting job. What does this guy think that should be done with Jansens poor play? Give him a chance to let a guy like Ware or some other DE beat him badly and kill Jason Campbell from the blind side. Jansen is coming off a really bad injury and looks slow to react. He doesn't look like the same player of two or three years ago. All the injuries he has gone through over the past three years are making him more of a liability than a rock of consistency. So UnWise Mike, my advise to you is to SHUT THE **** UP! Go back to writing something your better at writing like an advice column to old ladies because those are the only readers that like you.