Mike Wise: Left Chilled By Draft (M.E.T.)

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

I see alot of stats being throw out there to BRooks advantage, but it is just to put it nicely stretching the truth a bit dont ya think, or perhaps a honest mishap. People say that Brooks had a better hang time, I am sure as heck aint going to believe that after seeing Brooks fans mislead the stats. I can buy Brooks winning for being for constant, not for out kicking him.

What are you talking about?

Who is lying? (why don't you go ahead and say it - and who - have some guts)

Mislead the stats? (are you really saying that someone is skewing the results?)

Why can't you buy that Frost was out-kicked? (the stats are right there! oh...that's right, someone(s) are lying or making them up)

Please explain. I'd love to hear it. Otherwise - put down that kentucky bourbon man - its making you crazy.

[No_Pressure]

The fact that Frost was even in a supposedly open competition with a rookie punter makes me not give a **** if it was rigged to make him lose no matter how well he did. It's not like IF Vinny screwed Frost over on purpose he was screwing over Ray Guy or something.

Frost was a major reason we not only lost the Seattle game, but lost a few other very close games during Gibbs' time here. He's a bad punter and I don't care if he was ****ed over by the franchise I'm just so glad to see him gone. Most of us know exactly how he operates too- bring in pre-season competition and the guy puts up pro bowl numbers, hits the coffin corner, kicks a 70 yarder or two, etc. Once he's gotten rid of his competition and he's the starter for the season he turns into the normal Derek Frost and hits shorter punts than most of our linemen would.

[jimster]

I think Frost had a point. Most of you may not like it, but all these draft picks were not worthy of keeping. Tryon was awful. Frost should have performed better, but Brooks didn't do any better than him. It does look like the draftees got a one-year free ride.

To the impatient, untrained eye some think Tryon should be cut, but apparently the coaching staff, who see the guy every day in practice think he is showing enough to give him more than a month in the NFL before throwing him away. He likely won't even dress on gameday, but will get to practice every day and watch Shawn Springs, Rogers and Smoot.

You know who else looked like crap in their rookie pre-season's? Frank Wycheck and David Ackers.

[Goaldeje]

Allow me to pile on

Aside from the plain distortion of facts (or even lying about them) in the article, my biggest beef was that he chose Frost to make his point about the draft picks. Brooks stole Frost's job? OK, take a look at Califan's outstanding post to disabuse you of any nonsensical notions that might have any slightest bit of truth.

This is just bad writing. If he made a case about Tryon, I could see that. Tryon was outplayed from everything I saw, and it seems as though the main reason he's around is b/c he was drafted this year.

So why not go after that one, instead of making up a bunch of crap about Frost and Brooks? Bad journalism.

I also love, btw, the part of his article where he argues this was all about Vinny preserving his draft, which is "starting to not look so good", and then later tells us that it usually takes some time to evaluate draft picks.

Right then.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

I think Frost had a point. Most of you may not like it, but all these draft picks were not worthy of keeping. Tryon was awful. Frost should have performed better, but Brooks didn't do any better than him. It does look like the draftees got a one-year free ride.

Ok.... :doh:

Most of you may not like it

What are you talking about? Way to throw out random attacks. You should know this board by now - people here are NOT afraid of giving their honet opinion.

Frost should have performed better,

Yeah, no kidding. Why else did the FO bring in competition? Because Frost DOESN'T perform - he shanks kicks at the worst times possible and is totally inconsistent. There's a reason he lost the job. Even if Brooks never becomes elite - he's still no worse than Frost.

but Brooks didn't do any better than him.

The numbers don't agree with your statement AT all. Please go back and read Califan007's posts with the stats - that will tell you all you need to know.

It does look like the draftees got a one-year free ride.

You can't say that here - Brooks outperformed Frost. It's a simple as that and the stats support it.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

BTW, all this talk about hangtime is stupid. When will we get a punter that consistently kicks the ball out of bounds? And if you say that it's more likely to be blocked with directional punting, that's pure nonsense.

Since you decided to edit your post with even more hilarious bouts of nonsensical logic, I'll add a follow-up... :doh:

BTW, all this talk about hangtime is stupid.

You can't be serious. You cannot be that dumb. Why is it stupid!? Please explain your concepts on punting - I'd LOVE to hear them.

When will we get a punter that consistently kicks the ball out of bounds?

Huh? :yikes: I'm begging to think this is either: A. sarcasm or B. you are drunk at 8:15 in the morning.

And if you say that it's more likely to be blocked with directional punting, that's pure nonsense.

What? Who brought this point up? And what does it have to do with your statement? I'm just shaking my head at this point. BTW - Frost's shank kicks are not "directional punting" - they were bad plays from a bad punter.

:doh:

[TotalRecall]

Redskins:Victory_or_Death,

ohhhhhhh, you're 12 years old. Grow-up, then come back and post again.

Plus, you seem to have no common sense, much more about football knowledge.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

Redskins:Victory_or_Death,

ohhhhhhh, you're 12 years old. Grow-up, then come back and post again.

Plus, you seem to have no common sense, much more about football knowledge.

Way to defend your lousy posts. Congratulations - you're an asshat.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Snyderatto followers? This is completely unprofessional of Frost and reaks of sour grapes. So Wise JLC and Frost say so, so it must be so. The bottom line is Brooks had a better net punt avg. which is what really matters and WAS a draft pick, so what. This isn't about justifying the draft. All these writers love any and all opportunities to trash our FO even if unjustified. Wise is better than this. Get on the bandwagon of Skin's demise but stay there, when we are doing good I don't want to here a peep from the OP or the journalists.

[PortisFan123]

Frost sucks...no loss there. I don't care who the heck cut him. Good riddance.

[crank]

Read up:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/30/AR2008083002248.html?sid=ST2008083002413&s_pos=

I'm sure the Snyderatto followers will flock to his defense, but I'll still say the final cuts had influence from above. This isnt JLC here.

This is still a business and if two players are equal you keep the one that saves you money towards the cap.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

Frost sucks...no loss there. I don't care who the heck cut him. Good riddance.

I wish we weren't the ones who had cut him - it meant that he was actually on the team and it wasn't just a bad punting dream, lol.

Hey, TotalRecall, I'm still waiting for the defense of your posts... Is that really all you had?

[Jumbo]

Redskins:Victory_or_Death,

ohhhhhhh, you're 12 years old. Grow-up, then come back and post again.

Plus, you seem to have no common sense, much more about football knowledge.

Your previous post makes the words "you seem to have no common sense, much more about football knowledge" much more accurately associated with you than RVOD, and the whole post as presented could net you a little vacation. Just a tip.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

No...tell me one reason why Brooks is better than Frost?

Simply put, punting is about field position. When you strip away all of the dumb statistics, the goal of your punting unit is to put the opposition as far away from your goal line as possible.

To that point, net yardage is the most important statistic. Included in net yardage is hang time (since it limits or entirely prohibits returns). I don't care that Frost can drill a ball 65 yards ON A LINE and watch it get returned 25 or 30 yards. That's not ultimately helping the team. I'd prefer a sky-high 45 yard kick that has to be fair caught.

Finally, even statistically, the two guys were neck and neck all preseason. Being forward-thinking and able to think outside the box, I'd always defer to the rookie with upside in that case. Frost is what he is...he's not going to really change from what we saw in the preseason. Brooks however, essentially matched him kick for kick in the first couple games he's ever played in the NFL. A little common sense will tell you that he's much more likely to improve. It's called upside and it shows that this team might be turning the corner a bit.

In the end, conspiracy theorists and FO-haters can make Frost they're tragic hero, but Brooks won the job because he did a just as good (if not better) job than Frost...pretty impressive given his lack of NFL experience. I'm relieved we kept Brooks because it shows me that this team is looking at things like potential and long-term benefits instead of being closed-minded about things.

Brooks will have better numbers than Frost this year.

Off topic, this reaction by Frost really shows some immaturity and bitterness. He really comes off sounding like the spoiled 11-year old that complains to his friends/family when he is cut from the select/all-star team. Of course it's not his fault, blame someone else. This reaction alone should make everyone happy he's not on the squad. Being this immature, it's not surprising he continually came up VERY short when the pressure was its highest.

[Dheavy]

Since when did writers become football experts? How would they know who outplayed who.

I love Zorn but you can see why Gibbs told the media almost nothing...they use all of the information against you. He made a mistake calling out Kelly and Thomas in the media and now those guys have to read about it in every article.

The "media" loves to twist the truth to stir up a debate. It's just insane for a sport writer to make judgment on something he or she has no epertise in.

[Larry Brown #43]

VERY disappointing work from the Post on its coverage of cut-down day. I open up the Sports section, and...above the fold I see: one column about Frost and one article about Frost. Overkill much? And the rationale for this coverage seems to be that Frost whined on his way out the door.

Seriously, there were a few other moves made yesterday that caught me by surprise, much more so than the punting decision. Yet those moves got almost no play in the paper today. I guess since McMullen and others didn't throw a fit on their way out the door, they weren't worth discussing. :doh:

Talk about appealing to the least common denominator here.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

Have I mentioned that I am glad the "hot topic" on the board is a PUNTER CONTROVERSY? Makes me happy that has been the main thing to talk about, lol.

I'm just glad Colt Brennan isn't a punter - can you imagine the board THEN?

[jnhay]

Talk about making a story out of nothing. I understand Frost being mad about being let go, but a sports writer? Wow, that's just pathetic.

Wise talks about hangtime as being one of Danny Smith's concerns with Frost, but he doesn't even take the time to see how both punters compare in the stat! That's just a lazy writer.

[FFEMT284]

Have I mentioned that I am glad the "hot topic" on the board is a PUNTER CONTROVERSY? Makes me happy that has been the main thing to talk about, lol.

I'm just glad Colt Brennan isn't a punter - can you imagine the board THEN?

Great turn it into a CB thread .... look at the flock of people moving this way ...

[jimster]

I heard that on his way out the door, Anthony Mix said, "but I'm still tall. It's unfair really. I worked real hard all off-season doing the tall press and spent hours on the elongation machine. I was told it would be a fair height competition, but in the end, Malcom Kelly won because his net height is better. We all see who's making the height decisions around here."

[scruffylookin]

Personally, I don't care about Frost. He did outkick Brooks in the preseason but not by much and he had too much of a history of shanking balls that I agree with taking a chance on Brooks.

However, people seem to be glossing over what Frost said. He has said straight out that he was cut by Cerrato and that Danny Smith wanted to keep him. The Redskins can't sweep that under the carpet. If this isn't true, Danny Smith needs to step up and say it isn't true.

I think the point of the column was made right there at the end. Players don't respect Cerrato's ability and will call him out (even the punter).

Frost is right about one thing. The Redskins do seem to be trying to justify their draft. This was evidenced by the laughable line in yesterday's press release "All 10 draft picks EARNED a spot on the roster".

The biggest apologist out there can't for the life of them tell me how Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly or Justin Tryon EARNED a roster spot.

Kelly was always hurt. They injury settlement those guys and cut them.

Thomas was no better than Horace Gant and certainly not as good as Maurice Mann or Billy McMullen. Yet all 3 are gone and he's still here. Why? Draft pick. That's why.

Tryon. Just plain awful. Certainly Richardson outplayed him. Yet it's Richardson who was cut.

I don't have any sympathy for Frost (he should have been cut after his shank in the Tampa playoff game), but I do think he's right that the Redskins are trying to make their draft look better than it has shown to be right now.

As for burning bridges, so what? I've done that too. If you have no respect for the people you are working for and would never work for them again, telling them how you feel is the way to go.

[roulette]

Anyone remember that 76 yard punt in college from Brooks?

Go back and watch it again and you'll notice that it's not a line drive punt. Even though it's insanely long, the key advantage is that it's got crazy hang time. The coverage unit manages to keep up with it. If the returner had caught it, he would have been pummeled quickly.

That is what we saw from Brooks though out the preseason. Nice, high punts with very little return.

What did we get from Frost? Some line drive attempts at distance, and still no good hang time. No reason to be shocked here. Brooks out punted him.

[Lavar5150]

McMullen and Richardson should be on team

[RalphZero]

The Redskins have the worst front office in NFL History.

Snyder believes the team is 1 or 2 players and a head coach away from winning the Superbowl in the next season.

Trading a 2nd and 6th round pick to Bill Parcells for some washed up loser(Jason Taylor).

Cutting the better of the two punters to make your draft look less pathetic than it actually is.

Jon Jansen and Chris Samuels have had 6 head coaches and 7 offensive coordinators since being drafted.

An old beat up offensive line trying to learn a new system every season.

No continuity, stability or identity.

The bad thing is that after a 4-12 season, who's gonna be held responsible? Zorn would be my guess.

And the cycle starts all over again.

Who would possible want to coach for the Redskins besides someone desparate or someone looking for a huge payday?

Can anyone say Bill Cowher at $6M per season.

[zCommander]

I see alot of stats being throw out there to BRooks advantage, but it is just to put it nicely stretching the truth a bit dont ya think, or perhaps a honest mishap. People say that Brooks had a better hang time, I am sure as heck aint going to believe that after seeing Brooks fans mislead the stats. I can buy Brooks winning for being for constant, not for out kicking him.

Nope. Frosty lost by 2 yards.

"Brooks was able to place five punts inside the 20, something that was thought to be a weakness in his game. His net punting average was two yards better than Frost."